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Old 09-02-2012, 09:51 PM
  #2221  
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I'm running an 18t with the Tekin 1900 on a track with a ~200' straight. You'd probably be undergeared.

Originally Posted by Afun View Post
I understand that if you decide to go with the electrik-clutch option you must use mechanical brakes because the clutch bell will spin freely just like in nitro. When using to High Voltage servos one for brake and the other for steering, how do you get full voltage to both from 1 esc? Will a bec be able to distribute 7.4 volts to each servo? The esc I want to use throws out 6.0 volts only.

With 44t spur that come stock and using a 1950KV Active8 Novak system would it be safe to use a 16 tooth bell. I know I still have to temp. I would say the Activ 8 may be comparable to the Tekin 1950.

This buggy really intrigues me. I got to see it live this past weekend. It looks and drive pretty awesome. It might be my next build.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:26 PM
  #2222  
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Originally Posted by GrimReminder View Post
In your best words possible how do you compare the eb-48 to the 811-be?
First off let me say that I fully understand that really ANY of the top (several) cars in the 1/8 scale electric class can obviously be put in the winners circle with the right skilled driver who can compensate for their particular cars shortcomings.... so my opinions here about the cars are really more directed at the beginner to high mid-level type skilled drivers... And "NOT" guys "just under", or "approaching" the pro level, who can (like mentioned) adapt to nearly any car......

This Brings me to what I think of the Serpent, which is a very good car (IMO)..... But (IME), the Serpent is a car that wants & needs to be driven a bit on the hard side with both acceleration & braking to get the most of it... mostly since it's a pretty HEAVY car (in comparison to the EB-48)....and that it tends to fly a bit nose down thus requiring more skill to keep its attitude in constant check.... And it seems that the majority of the "skilled" guys running REALLY fast lap times on our highly technical jumps, large outdoor open tracks down here are running 2050's (and faster motors) with it.... and it seems that the greater majority of the "beginner to intermediate" guys that can't quite properly control or fully utilize the (2050 & above) motors running the Serpents are looking pretty SO SO with them on our tough to master tracks.... I guess what I'm getting at is (IMO) the Serpents are just Considerably more difficult to drive well for the more regular "Beginner to intermediate" skilled guys.... To give you an example: one of the Several guys that I let drive my EB-48 last night after our races has been running his Serpent 811be for a while, and at our track for quite a few race days, and (myself and Jay (IE:ProTc3) were helping him with some set-up changes on his car for a good part of the day, so I KNOW that his car was not set-up funky or anything like that....he got behind the wheel of the EB-48, and he literally looked like a completely different driver... Lap after lap, (while driving it) he kept commenting "over and over" in ALL of the areas of our "pretty technical jumps track" that he would normally have severe issues with his car... Saying Jeeze, my Serpent would have NEVER been able to deal with that jump the way I Hit it, or that's where I normally end up on my lid.... driving the way he drove the EB-48, he would have Undoubtably qualified much higher up...

Now on to the balance of the cars... Contrary to popular belief, the Serpent (with the standard large size 2s lipo's in it's "side by side" layout is actually fairly equally balanced " side to side, but a bit nose heavy (this is not because of the independent component weights, but rather their placements in relation to the cars center line)... but with the shorty type lipo's in the Serpent, (to get more weight out), many complain that the car starts to handle and jump very different regardless of whether the shorty packs are run in the forward position of the treys ,OR the most rearward position.... I know on J's Serpent we also found this to be true, as he immediately lost nearly one second per lap immediately after putting the shorty lipo's in it..... Where as cars like the EB-48 with the shorty packs being put all on one side seem to be affected much less (especially in the air) than split pack designed cars (like the Serpent) running the shorty's.... Once again, I'm sure this could be delt with with set-up changes, but unless you run nothing but the shorty packs, it's really not reasonable to me on the Serpent...

Durability: in the commonly "first to break" parts... (IE: control arms & knuckles) I have to give those to the Serpent.... But, as funny as it sounds, IMO it's not really too much of a plus in the way that the serpent does it..... In our Florida heat the Serpents plastic (glass-less) plastics have flex almost like chewing gum... And I personally have never been a big fan of those type of car parts taking away too much from what the suspension is designed to do.... And it's not like the parts on the EB-48 are fragile, they just don't flex as much before breaking.....

Up keep: the EB-48 takes this hands down IMO, the serpent parts prices are CRAZY high for nearly everything... Things like the aluminum towers for the Serpent are in the $40 dollar range a piece, and wanting to simply try a different steering Ackerman change will cost ya around $20 a piece (for EACH of the Ackerman positions), while the EB-48 comes with machined aluminum towers, and ALL three Ackerman positions are easily changeable on the one INCLUDED aluminum brace that is always on the car....

Car weight..... This is HUGE.... Whether it be real car racing, or RC cars, power to weight Ratio is VERY important on any level of racing (even for beginners), and even after spending $200ish additional on Titanium replacement parts for the serpent, It's actually the better part of a pound heavier.... That's pretty drastic on these cars... and you can feel it big time... I myself will be sticking with the EB-48 for sure....
Joe

Last edited by Joe B; 09-02-2012 at 10:44 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:45 PM
  #2223  
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Good tip on the Spur, however I have the 8.2 so its a 46T. I think it will hit the top plate, Although I know u can grind it a bit to get clearance. My problem is the gearing now. I am running 15/44 now. SO using 46T would I increase pinion size to 17T?


Originally Posted by SEF View Post
Took mine out to Revelation Raceway today (large 1/8 track with big jumps, hard packed with loose sandy/small debris top layer). It was INCREDIBLE

I can't push the car hard enough around the track. The point where you overdrive this car is almost beyond my skill level. You can just keep going a little faster if you are willing to experiment with new lines or if you try to keep corner speed a little faster than your comfortable with. It's fantastic.

A few things I tried that differ from box stock that made me say "this car is stupid easy to drive":
  • less anti-squat helps especially if traction is a little low. Stock anti-squat setting I feel leaves the buggy riding a little high and if you break traction, it has the opposite effect of giving good forward traction, instead the rear end skates around a little and has a hard time settling down.
  • I had an Associated RC8.2e. I also had a Losi 8ight-e 2.0. And I am faster with this buggy. In any case, I did have some Associated 1.3x8 tapered pistons, and I liked them much better. Especially in the rear with 32.5 wt oil. Planted the rear end and gave it a little more pack. You do have to drill out the center hole a tad to get them to work.

Lastly, for those of you wondering or for those that need a steel spur gear now, an entire Associated diff is a direct drop in. After selling all my Associated stuff to get this car, I just happen to have an entire center diff with a 44t spur. I also had a bag of diff shims (asc89117), and I just replaced the entire diff and shimmed accordingly (used almost the entire bag of diff shims).

Reason I needed the new diff was because I chipped a tooth on the plastic gear. To its credit, Revs tends to chew up plastic gears rather quickly because of the sand and debris top layer. I was going strong and really pushing this thing before I chipped a single tooth. I was hitting some really fun and big lines, and crashing spectacularly at times as well, and the chipped tooth is the only damage I came away with Nice job Tekno.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:46 PM
  #2224  
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Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
First off let me say that I fully understand that really ANY of the top (several) cars in the 1/8 scale electric class can obviously be put in the winners circle with the right skilled driver who can compensate for their particular cars shortcomings.... so my opinions here about the cars are really more directed at the beginner to high mid-level type skilled drivers... And "NOT" guys "just under", or "approaching" the pro level, who can (like mentioned) adapt to nearly any car......

This Brings me to what I think of the Serpent, which is a very good car (IMO)..... But (IME), the Serpent is a car that wants & needs to be driven a bit on the hard side with both acceleration & braking to get the most of it... mostly since it's a pretty HEAVY car (in comparison to the EB-48)....and that it tends to fly a bit nose down thus requiring more skill to keep its attitude in constant check.... And it seems that the majority of the "skilled" guys running REALLY fast lap times on our highly technical jumps, large outdoor open tracks down here are running 2050's (and faster motors) with it.... and it seems that the greater majority of the "beginner to intermediate" guys that can't quite properly control or fully utilize the (2050 & above) motors running the Serpents are looking pretty SO SO with them on our tough to master tracks.... I guess what I'm getting at is (IMO) the Serpents are just Considerably more difficult to drive well for the more regular "Beginner to intermediate" skilled guys.... To give you an example: one of the Several guys that I let drive my EB-48 last night after our races has been running his Serpent 811be for a while, and at our track for quite a few race days, and (myself and Jay (IE:ProTc3) were helping him with some set-up changes on his car for a good part of the day, so I KNOW that his car was not set-up funky or anything like that....he got behind the wheel of the EB-48, and he literally looked like a completely different driver... Lap after lap, (while driving it) he kept commenting "over and over" in ALL of the areas of our "pretty technical jumps track" that he would normally have severe issues with his car... Saying Jeeze, my Serpent would have NEVER been able to deal with that jump the way I Hit it, or that's where I normally end up on my lid.... driving the way he drove the EB-48, he would have Undoubtably qualified much higher up...

Now on to the balance of the cars... Contrary to popular belief, the Serpent (with the standard large size 2s lipo's in it's "side by side" layout is actually fairly equally balanced " side to side, but a bit nose heavy... but with the shorty type lipo's in the Serpent, (to get more weight out), many complain that the car starts to handle and jump very different regardless of whether the shorty packs are run in the forward position of the treys ,OR the most rearward position.... I know on J's Serpent we also found this to be true, as he immediately lost nearly one second per lap immediately after putting the shorty lipo's in it..... Where as cars like the EB-48 with the shorty packs being put all on one side seem to be affected much less (especially in the air) than split pack designed cars (like the Serpent) running the shorty's.... Once again, I'm sure this could be delt with with set-up changes, but unless you run nothing but the shorty packs, it's really not reasonable....

Durability: in the commonly "first to break" parts... (IE: control arms & knuckles) I have to give those to the Serpent.... But, as funny as it sounds, IMO it's not really too much of a plus in the way that the serpent does it..... In our Florida heat the Serpents plastic (glass-less) plastics have flex almost like chewing gum... And I personally have never been a big fan of those type of car parts taking away too much from what the suspension is designed to do.... And it's not like the parts on the EB-48 are fragile, they just don't flex as much before breaking.....

Up keep: the EB-48 takes this hands down IMO, the serpent parts prices are CRAZY high for nearly everything... Things like the aluminum towers for the Serpent are in the $40 dollar range a piece, and wanting to simply try a different steering Ackerman change will cost ya around $20 a piece (for EACH of the 3 Ackerman positions), while the EB-48 comes with machined aluminum towers, and ALL three Ackerman positions are easily changeable on the one INCLUDED aluminum brace that is always on the car....

Car weight..... Whether it be real car racing, or RC cars, power to weight is very important on any level of racing (even for beginners), and even after spending $200ish additional on Titanium replacement parts for the serpent, It's actually the better part of a pound heavier.... That's pretty drastic on these cars... and you can feel it big time...
Joe
Joe,

Thank you very much for that detailed break down on the comparison between the two buggies. I have the serpent 811-be and the eb-48. Believe it or not everything you said I have to totally agree with you. My thoughts are in line with yours, sits good to know that I'm on the right track here. Now that I've had the 48 for a bit now I have to say that this buggy is the most forgiving buggy I've ever driven. Took me a while to really get the buggy dialed in and now It's money for sure. I also have an RC8.2e with the Tekno V4 installed and actually like this better than my serpent. My RC8.2e gave my EB-48 a damn good run for It's money but in the end the EB-48 is on top. I will still keep my 8.2E and continue to run it, but the 48 has won me over. I think I'm gonna retire my 8.2e and just bash or make a high speed runner out of it.

In the end though I was really surprised at how much a Tekno V4 made the 8.2e a true performer. It's not the best racer out there and it does wear faster than some of the other buggies out there, In the end It was a great purchase.

By next summer with more practice me and the 48 are going to become a well matched pair.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:53 PM
  #2225  
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Originally Posted by teknorc View Post
I'm pretty sure I enjoyed every word of that post . Thanks! Really glad it's working for you!
No problem, you designed an Awesome car
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GrimReminder View Post
Joe,

Thank you very much for that detailed break down on the comparison between the two buggies. I have the serpent 811-be and the eb-48. Believe it or not everything you said I have to totally agree with you. My thoughts are in line with yours, sits good to know that I'm on the right track here. Now that I've had the 48 for a bit now I have to say that this buggy is the most forgiving buggy I've ever driven. Took me a while to really get the buggy dialed in and now It's money for sure. I also have an RC8.2e with the Tekno V4 installed and actually like this better than my serpent. My RC8.2e gave my EB-48 a damn good run for It's money but in the end the EB-48 is on top. I will still keep my 8.2E and continue to run it, but the 48 has won me over. I think I'm gonna retire my 8.2e and just bash or make a high speed runner out of it.

In the end though I was really surprised at how much a Tekno V4 made the 8.2e a true performer. It's not the best racer out there and it does wear faster than some of the other buggies out there, In the end It was a great purchase.

By next summer with more practice me and the 48 are going to become a well matched pair.
No prob, good luck with yours buddy..... Joe
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:20 PM
  #2227  
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Originally Posted by oggietiu View Post
Good tip on the Spur, however I have the 8.2 so its a 46T. I think it will hit the top plate, Although I know u can grind it a bit to get clearance. My problem is the gearing now. I am running 15/44 now. SO using 46T would I increase pinion size to 17T?
46 will hit the top plate if you don't grind it. I just happen to have a 44t spur, so I figure I would try it out, and it worked nicely. And you would need a 16/46 as opposed to the 17 to keep roughly the same gear ratio as the 15/44.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:19 AM
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thanks SEF
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:52 AM
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EB48 is stupidly durable. I love it!

I went out for some practice today, and after about 3 minutes ended up hitting a big hole that I couldn't see in the face of a jump, making me go all kinds of bad in the air. The landing was horrible, basically darting from about 10-12 feet up after a full flip and a couple twists. The only direct damage to the EB48 was that the center brace top screw backed out a bit.

The jolt was enough to pop my T8 a bit loose from its own bell, which made it chew up the spur gear...but everything else is still in perfect shape. The T8 is doin' fine too, just needed to be tightened back up.

I also weighed the car the other night. Fully loaded with a 5200 60c 4s and telemetry I came out at 7lb 10oz.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:50 AM
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So the thing to do for more on power traction off corner is less anti squat? Thats the only place I am lacking is initial off corner acceleration.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by toycardriver View Post
So the thing to do for more on power traction off corner is less anti squat? Thats the only place I am lacking is initial off corner acceleration.
What I found this past weekend that when the wheelbase is set to the box stock setting(with the rear hub spacing) removing some anti squat will help smooth the car out. What I went to that really helped and made the car a lot better than that, was I shortened the wheelbase to the shortest wheelbase and put the anti squat back in the car. This tightened up the rear on entry and having the anti squat in the car, that tightened up the car on corner exit. As long as the car stays planted on entry and doesnt begin a slide, anti squat will be your friend for finishing the corner. I liked this much better. I cant say enough how much better the car was this way.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:01 AM
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What was the length of the longest straight you ran on, Jason? How was the handling at this speed with the shortened wheel base?

Are there any other negatives to a shorter wheel base?

Originally Posted by protc3 View Post
What I found this past weekend that when the wheelbase is set to the box stock setting(with the rear hub spacing) removing some anti squat will help smooth the car out. What I went to that really helped and made the car a lot better than that, was I shortened the wheelbase to the shortest wheelbase and put the anti squat back in the car. This tightened up the rear on entry and having the anti squat in the car, that tightened up the car on corner exit. As long as the car stays planted on entry and doesnt begin a slide, anti squat will be your friend for finishing the corner. I liked this much better. I cant say enough how much better the car was this way.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:04 AM
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We have about a 170 ft straight. The car was not unstable at any point on the track. I had not one negative effect by doing this. It just made the car very stable and planted.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:08 AM
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If you are on a high bite track, long wheelbase is the way to go as that will make the car rotate better. On a loose track, I run it short as it reduces rotation thus making the rear more stuck. This car rotates very well and it hurts it on a loose track. Therefor, tightening the rear end up by shortening the wheelbase, will not do anything but help limit over rotation and breaking the rear end loose.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by protc3 View Post
What I found this past weekend that when the wheelbase is set to the box stock setting(with the rear hub spacing) removing some anti squat will help smooth the car out. What I went to that really helped and made the car a lot better than that, was I shortened the wheelbase to the shortest wheelbase and put the anti squat back in the car. This tightened up the rear on entry and having the anti squat in the car, that tightened up the car on corner exit. As long as the car stays planted on entry and doesnt begin a slide, anti squat will be your friend for finishing the corner. I liked this much better. I cant say enough how much better the car was this way.
I shortened the wheelbase to its shortest setting and it helped a lot, its just the initial on throttle with the wheels turned coming off corner that it wants to jump sideways. It may just be me not being used to electric and waiting on the clutch to engage on my nitro cars.
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