SixFeetDeep

iTrader: (42)

So you are thinking that a different speed control would not change anything (which is what I have been thinking of doing)... if I want more low end power, I need to get a different motor?

Thanks,
-Cameron

Randy_Pike

iTrader: (6)

The esc is an equal part of the power equation. The motor is one part, the esc is another.

The Pro 4 doesn't need timing at all to run fast and have great bottom end pull.

You can only get so much power using timing.

Odin544

iTrader: (93)

I'm thinking you dont need all that timing in the sc4x. I've never run a mmp or any castle product so I can't comment on that. With my pro4 4600 I run no timing at all. And it's got more power than I know what to do with. The sc4x I have is a 5.5t. I sometimes add 10 degrees timing. Its got plenty of torque as well but its no pro4 What are your temps? My guess would be a different motor would make a bigger difference. But I'd run an rx8 either way.

Honu

iTrader: (22)

yup!

nazman01

iTrader: (35)

no, no difference as far as power, for some reason the rx8 never seemed as smooth, with no timing both rx8 and mmp where pretty much exactly the same speed and power... was goin to buy one of the new 4pole tekin motors, but i actually just bought a viper 4 pole copper herad system, the whole system cost as much as one tekin motor... it is sensorless, but really that makes nbo difference to me.. my castle 3800 4pole sensorless is a super smooth motor...
either way all tekin stuff is good, but dont biuy one thinking it will have more power than a mmp

SixFeetDeep

iTrader: (42)

Thanks again guys for all the help and suggestions!

wyd

iTrader: (51)

Once you get to practice with the little different setup you will see the difference by just changing a few little things on the speedo. You will have more power.

We have guys using both the RX8 and MMP equally as well. Both excellent speedos.

RCManiac007

iTrader: (86)

That much timing is killing your torque especially when it comes on that early in the rpm range. I used to run a mmp with a 4.5 motor and only used 15-18 degrees of timimng. Take some of the timing out and raise the rpm start point to 4500-5000 rpm. As for your pinion size, a smaller pinion will give you more bottom end but will cost you top speed a larger pinion will take some bottom end away and give you more speed. I have seen many people at the track take timing out and watch there truck go faster. Each motor has a sweet spot where it performs at it's best. When you find it you will know it. Sometimes it just takes some time going through different gear ratio's and timing settings. And yes buying a 4600kv pro4 would make your truck stupid fast. In all reality it's to fast for any 4x4 sc truck.

Cain

iTrader: (294)

wyd has good advice. Really set me straight on my timing issues.

and I can't say enough about the brownies ... Ah yes, the brownies ... Wyd, thank you!

SixFeetDeep

iTrader: (42)

Thanks again for all your responses.

Well, I just got back from the track, and tried multiple different things.

First, I left the 12T pinion on, and I turned the cheat mode off on the MMP and put it on "Smart Sense." I did a few laps, but the truck was WAY down on power...

Then, I again left my 12T pinion on, and turned the cheat mode back on on the speed control and turned my timing down on my MMP to 30 degrees, and had it come in at 4500RPM and fully engaged by about 11,000RPM (I dont remember the exact number). It did seem to help, but was not the power increase I was hoping for... well at least I did not see a power decrease changing from my orginal setup of 45 degrees of timing coming in at around 2800RPM.

Next, I left the timing settings there, but started changing my gearing. I firt tried a 13T pinion, then I tried a 15T pinion. Each time I geared up, it did not seem to take the torqu away from the motor like I expected, but it did make it get hotter. The truck actually had the most power it seemed with the 15T pinion on her, I was able to clear those bigger jumps that are right out of the corners a little easier (but still not as easy as it should be!) However, the speed control got up to 160 only after 3 minuites, so that wont work!

So I went back to the 12T pinion, and bumped the timing up to 35 degrees, still with the same range (4500~11000), and like i said before it still is fast, but I need MORE TORQUE! In fact, I was only able to clear the bigger jump that is right out of the corner the first 5-6 laps (when my battery was freshest). Once the batteries get even a little down on power after a couple minuites (like I said, after 5-6 laps ish [FYI, our track has 21s-22s lap times]), I am no longer able to clear the jump if I want to. The only way I can make it is by swinging super wide in the hairpin corner before it, which isnt fast...

Oh, and as i said in a previous post, its not that the truck doesnt hall ass down the straigt away, cuz it does, even with the 12T pinion. But even with the 12T pinion on it, I swear that I can "see" the timing in the motor fully come on 3/4 of the way down the straight, thats where it really starts to "take off"! That behavior is what made me think the timing was coming on too late orginally, but it still had this behavior even when I had my timing to start coming in at 2200RPM..

The only thing I havent tried is going below 30 deg on the timing like someone recently suggested above. So I will deffinately try that next!

So any other suggestions, please let me hear them!!

Thanks again,
-Cameron

Odin544

iTrader: (93)

Give the larger pinion a shot with no timing.

wyd

iTrader: (51)

Glad it helped. Now you can play around more since you have a little better starting point.

wyd

iTrader: (51)

Two things you can try is turning the timing down about 5 degrees on the motor but keep the cheat timing and everything else the same. After that try 11 tooth pinion and see if that along with the 5 degrees less timing in the motor don't help.

Slashdrivr

iTrader: (1)

I've run both esc's with the Pro 4 4000 and the MMP/4.5 550 combo.

RX8 hits harder down low imo, but only found that out after I started unsoldering the power leads on the esc when I switched to the Pro 4 on the MMP.

But in regards to your situation...put the MMP in SmartSense. Default on timing, iirc 10 degs. Med start power and 100% Forward power. 15T pinion and hang on, if you can't clear a jump like that...your flat out using the wrong tires or your approach is incorrect.

Oasis

iTrader: (38)

Ok..Help me out here Randy..I have been under the impression that a 550 can motor has 40% to 50% more torque than a comparable 540 can motor..is this right or did I get it wrong? Now are the SC4X motors also 4pole? Right now my RX8 is a no go..so if I want to race this weekend I have to use my MMP..anybody have any gearing suggestions..I'm using a MMP speed controller with a SC4X 5.5 in a Losi SCTE..