RC10T4.1 Thread.

Old 01-23-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ufoDziner View Post
This portion of this post is a continuation of my prior post about the McMaster x-rings. I ran them for about 6 packs over a 2 week period. They definitely leak. Way more than the stock o-rings ever did. In addition, they have a small initial stick. I will not be using them again. I also bought the o-rings made of the same material (75 durometer fluoroelastomer). They stuck to the shaft so much that I didn't even bother to try them. My next order from McMaster is going to be for red silicone o-rings that SHOULD be a direct replacement for the stockers.

Next up is a continuation of my pic from last night. I noticed that the aluminum pivot balls seem to wear and get sloppy after a while. RPM makes delirin pivot balls, so I figured I'd give them a try and am quite happy with the results. A little mod to the lower front pivot balls to eliminate the flange and they're awesome! I left the flange on the rears as it provides just enough clearance to keep the springs from rubbing the turnbuckle. I also dremel'd the shock caps so I could use these as well (which is what was shown in the pic last night.

Tonight I decided to rebuild my shocks. I'm no shock rebuilding expert by ANY stretch. Therefore, I could never achieve 0 rebound (my desired amount). I always had some, albeit a small amount. And, if I'm going do a rebuild, why not try out the vcs2 upgrade kit. :-) This rebuild kit converts the shocks to bladder type. After grinding the eyes to fit the delrin pivot balls and drilling a vent hole, I assembled one. Wow! It took 0 effort to achieve 0 rebound. Also, they shocks feel WAY smoother to me. It's a pretty unbelievable transformation as far as I'm concerned. I don't think I'll ever go back to emulsion style. The following is a pic of my new frontend.

Bladder caps on your shocks will reduce overall traction and add a progessive feel to the shock the more it is compressed. They might just leak after some use because of the amount of oil pressing against the bladder is greater than the bladder was intended to handle.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:31 AM
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Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate, or tell me where I can find more data in regards to traction? I would like to understand why I would lose traction compared to an emulsion setup. Thanks!

Originally Posted by DaveW View Post
Bladder caps on your shocks will reduce overall traction and add a progessive feel to the shock the more it is compressed. They might just leak after some use because of the amount of oil pressing against the bladder is greater than the bladder was intended to handle.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:45 AM
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I would agree, those caps, IIRC were designed and intended to be used on TC shocks which obviously have much less volume and stroke of the shock shaft. I would expect they would leak rather quickly.

Just my thoughts, let us know if they work or not, I'm sure others may consider them....just not me.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:48 PM
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How much rebound do you guys find acceptable when building your shocks?
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:08 PM
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1mm or 2mm rebound
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by aeRayls View Post
1mm or 2mm rebound
What he said lol

I shoot for 1, but have settled for 1.5/2 if they are both even... if not, it's try try again (the newer v2 shocks do seem to make it a hella lot easier though)
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:17 PM
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Ok, so can you guys that are getting 1.5-2mm of rebound, can you explain your technique for bleeding the shocks to achieve that?
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ufoDziner View Post
Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate, or tell me where I can find more data in regards to traction? I would like to understand why I would lose traction compared to an emulsion setup. Thanks!
Originally Posted by racer1812 View Post
I would agree, those caps, IIRC were designed and intended to be used on TC shocks which obviously have much less volume and stroke of the shock shaft. I would expect they would leak rather quickly.

Just my thoughts, let us know if they work or not, I'm sure others may consider them....just not me.
They were designed for the TC shocks (as mentioned), and i know going from a bleeder screw style cap to a bladder style cap makes a very noticeable difference in overall grip and chassis roll (this is of course making the cap change the ONLY change and using the same weight oil, piston, spring).

Drilling a hole in the bladder cap to allow the air trapped between the backside of the bladder and the cap to freely vent can gain back some of that overall traction and chassis roll lost by adding the bladder (after all, traction simplified IS just making use of a chassis' weight transitions to best suit the amount of mechanical grip/friction your tires glean from the racing surface).

NOW, if the track you are on is smooth and high bite with smooth jumps and landings (lets say enough grip to use slicks), then i can see using the bladder caps to aid in roll control... but you will need to be very meticulous in how you set piston height in the shock when you install the bladder.

Basically you would want the bladder to control the oil moved ONLY through the USED range of piston movement. Static ride height should put little to NO preload on the bladder, and you should shim the shocks internally to avoid pulling the bladder out of the cap at full shock extension.

As you can imagine, that would require a lot of hit and miss builds and would be a nightmare to tune on a track that changes grip throughout the day. I can imagine though... it would be awesome in the right conditions.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Hinecken View Post
Ok, so can you guys that are getting 1.5-2mm of rebound, can you explain your technique for bleeding the shocks to achieve that?
starting at the filling portion>

I fill my shocks with the desired weight oil to just over half full.
I actuate the shock shaft so the air under the piston is evacuated.
This may take several minutes.
once the trapped air is released (to the best of my patience)
I fill the shock so the oil is just cresting above the top of the shock body.
I now let them sit (set) so the air goes to the top and escapes (some taping or moving of the shaft may be required)
I tighten down the shock cap.
(I do an initial check at this point by moving the shaft up, it should go about 75-80% into the body before the pressure is too great)

While pushing the rod into the body of the shock
(usually holding the cap in one hand and pusing down - the shaft rod end is on my pit towel on my leg or the work table)
I slowly losen the bleeder cap while still maintaining pressure on the shock.
Once the screw is lose enough you should get a "spew" of air followed by the excess oil leaking out of the hole, and the shaft will bottom out.
This can be done without bleeder caps by loosening the the shock cap following the same guildlines... but the bleeder screw is sooooo much easier.

BEFORE you let up the pressure on the shock, tighten the bleeder cap down.

Check for rebound.

if its too much, simply let them set a few more minutes and redo the bleed process.

if its too soft (too little) add more oil and repeat.

I hope this is what you were asking about. I could be way off.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:13 AM
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That's exactly what I was asking. Thanks!
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:51 PM
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Not sure if anyone reading this is a South Florida local, but a buddy and I are going up to Basher's tonight around 7 to get in some practice and take advantage of the 2 for Tuesday deal. It's buy one get one on practice fees and rentals tonight. If you're in the area, grab your stadium truck and come on by!
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:45 PM
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Is there a mod for a +8 chassis for the t4? I know I saw one for an AE 2wd but it could have been the buggy. How does the t4.1 compare to the 22T in durability and handling? I am thinking of getting a used t4.1 to race. Any thing I should know? Any recent worlds parts or anything? Is the factory team much better than the rtr?
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by IOP_Racer View Post
Is there a mod for a +8 chassis for the t4?
the t4 is the same wheelbase as 22t, which is 4mm less then roar legal max

Originally Posted by IOP_Racer View Post
Any recent worlds parts or anything?
the worlds are only for 2wd buggy and 4wd buggy.

Originally Posted by IOP_Racer View Post
Is the factory team much better than the rtr?
simple answer, YES. the shocks are much better, and the other added upgrades offer increased durability, especially the hubs, and tranny.
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:04 PM
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The difference in the tranny is the ball diff right? The truck I am looking at has Lunsford titanium turnbuckles and GH aluminum front bulkhead. He is asking 100 for the roller. I am almost positive it is the RTR. Good price?
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:41 PM
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If you want to try bladders in your Associated shocks, you can use the ones in the VCS2 upgrade kit, but don't use those caps....use the bleeder caps, but don't put the screw in. When built properly, the bladder won't let oil by, and by leaving the bleeder screw out, the hole in the cap will relieve the pressure as the shock is compressed.

I've never noticed a performance advantage or disadvantage running the shocks this way, they're just different.
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