this setup sounds like it would be a good start for an outdoor loamy track.

http://www.teamassociated.com/pdf/ca...field_2011.pdf

thanks!

A few laps on my track,
http://youtu.be/1MH6Ar-LpcQ

Hey guys

Im looking at getting an sc10 4x4, and im wanting to get the necissary upgrades at the same time......Ive been following this thread from day 1, however id like to know if im missing anything on this list.

-rear sway bar
-front sway bar
-high torque slipper pads
-vented slipper contacts
-the new aluminum wheel hexes

Tires that work at your track.

Those that have installed the clutch basket...

How are you modifying the cover? I tried heating it up and molding over a motor, but could not get the thing to mold. It did start to melt the inner ring the rubber cover goes on though. Does anyone have pictures or suggestions? I was thinking about just adding 1mm where between the cover and housing.

Think of a fishing pole. grab it at it's base. Now take hold of it out near the end. Bends pretty easy, right?

In suspension terms, that is a high roll center. It's what you have with 0 shims under your ballstuds.

now grasp the pole closer and closer to it's base and notice that it gets more and more difficult to make the pole bend.

This is the effect of adding shims to raise the ballstuds. This is lowering your roll center.

I know camber gain works it's way in to the equation too, but I need to get off this computer and go get inked...

I know not everyone has big sockets in their tool box but...

I took a 1 1/2 socket on the outside of the cover a 1 1/8 on the inside of the cover and ran a long bolt/nut through the the sockets and the center slipper adjusting hole in the cover. I tighten the bolt and it pushes the little socket in to the big one coning the cover out. Put some heat too it with my wifes super hair dryer and then let it cool. Makes a perfect round bulge in the cover for the basket to clear.

Running shorter links has the same effect as raising the inner ball stud correct?

Not really...they are two seperate adjustments.

Shortening the camber links will give you more negative camber, which SHOULD translate into more cornering traction, with less straightline stability.

Raising the ball stud will lower your roll center, making it more difficult for your car to roll to the side, helping prevent it from traction rolling by decreasing your camber as the suspension compresses. (This helps to counter the way that your tire leans towards the outside of a corner as the chassis rolls over.)

When you lower your roll center, you will also get a little bit more negative camber, but realistically, you need to reset your static camber after raising or lowering the ball stud.

Play with camber first and find a camber that works well for you and your track. I run 2 degrees negative camber at all 4 corners and it works well for me.

Once you get a setting that you like, you can try raising the ball stud...reset the camber to the way that you liked it, and see if raising the ball stud helps your truck at your track the way you drive it.

Because I had to drive Nosram for a long time and it is the same as LRP and I had sooo much trouble with it, burned motors, burned esc's, bad machining, really the badest lipos on earth etc... Mr Maifield changes his 1/8th components in his cars more often than you change your underwear. I really dont like it, too expensive for too less equivalent

True

But not like that. Remember how the SC10 4x4 has inner and outer holes where the inner ball stud for the upper link mounts? The inner hole gives you a longer upper link and the outer hole will give you a shorter upper link but camber would still be set the same for each.

I'll explain in a second.

True.

But not like this.

First off, let me link to something written for touring cars some time ago that explains the physics of this in pretty basic terms.

http://www.hpiracing.com/tuning5/

Basically you have two imaginary points on your car, the Center of Gravity (CG) and the Roll Center (RC). The CG most are familiar with, it's the point where, if you were to suspend the car at that point in mid air, the car would be level front to back and side to side. Now keep in mind that CG is NOT stationary. As you accelerate, it moves to the rear of the truck. As you brake, it moves forward. Turn right and it moves left. Turn left and it moves right. Let's just focus on the side to side part of this so imagine that CG, rather than being a single point, is a line that runs down the center of your car front to back.

RC, on the other hand, is the point at which your car rolls around from side to side. So when your car goes through a corner and the chassis leans to one side, there is a spot down the centerline of the car where everything above it rolls to the outside of the turn and everything below it rolls to the inside of the turn. To get an idea of what we're talking about, take a straw and hold it between your thumb and index finger about a third of the way up and with the straw pointing up and down. Now push the top of the straw to the left. See how the bottom moves to the right? Where your fingers are holding it would be the RC.

CG and RC are connected and the line that connects them is called the Roll Moment. The longer the roll moment, the further over your car is going to roll in a corner. The way our suspensions are designed, the RC is UNDER the CG. (And with our trucks, probably well under the chassis.) In our straw example above, because you were holding the straw only a third of the way up from the bottom, the CG of the straw was above your fingers and thus above the RC. Think of an upside down pendulum. That's what we're dealing with. Farmer John has the right idea...just in his example the CG was your hand on the grip and the RC was your hand higher up bending the pole. It's actually the other way around, the CG is moving around the RC. When we adjust our suspension, we're not moving the CG, we're moving the RC.

Because of this orientation, that means your CG is going to move from the center of the car to the outside of the turn when the car rolls into a turn. A traction roll is caused when the CG shifts beyond the outside tires (A VERY basic explanation...see Newton's laws for more info...). Because the CG is shifted so far yet the tires are still gripping, the car flips. Thus moving the RC closer to the CG shortens the roll moment, the CG doesn't shift as far and now the car won't traction roll.

Raising and lowering your ball studs changes the ANGLE of the upper link. By raising the inner mount you are making the upper links more "level" and thus LOWERING your RC...moving it FURTHER to the CG and RAISING how much the truck rolls by LENGTHENING the Roll Moment.

The length will also affect roll. A shorter length upper link will allow the roll to happen very quickly but not as far making the truck feel more responsive and increasing the speed with which the truck transitions from one turn to the next. A longer upper link will allow the truck to roll slower but further and make it feel more stable but less responsive in transitioning from one corner to another.

A couple things to keep in mind. One is that you have TWO roll centers, front and rear. This is kind of a "no duh!" but it's important. Second, RC is dynamic and it changes as your suspension is compressed.

AGAIN, I STRESS my knowledge comes from touring cars and I'm not sure exactly how all this equates to off road performance but the physics are the same for each. (And trying to do all this without my notes is making my head hurt...it's been a while) Sorry for the long reply but I figure if you're asking what making the links longer or shorter does you probably don't know much of this.

NEEDLESS DETAIL FOLLOWS.

There's my warning. There is a way to FIND your EXACT roll center. Viewing your truck from the rear, look at your rear left upper link. It makes a line from the outter mounting point to the inner mounting point. Extend that line into infinity towards the right. Now look at your rear left lower suspensoin arm. It too makes a line from the outter hinge pin to the inner hinge pin. Extend this line to the right until it crosses the line created by the upper link. Now, from that point, draw a line BACK to the left that connects to the center of the width of the left rear tire's contact patch. Now do all this with the right rear side suspension as well (naturally all lines run to the left now). Where the two lines that run to the tire's contact patches intersect is your rear roll center. Repeat for the front. I use to have diagrams for this but I don't know where the hell they went. Hey, I didn't say it would be EASY to find it...just that, if you want to, you could. LOL

Corrected definitions...god I shouldn't type this stuff when I got two or three things going on at the same time.

Yeah, that's what I meant. :blush:

I think what he was saying is "BlueGlowBoy is right when it comes to the end result...he just doesn't understand why he is right."

One day I'm gonna read the book you wrote on the subject...learn more about the why behind the what...

But when I find a spelling error, you better believe I'm going to point it out!:ha:

tumb=thumb
pengilum=pendulum
explination=explanation
your are=you are
transisitons=transitions


Seriously though, good information! Thanks for that. :smile:

http://users.telenet.be/elvo/

This should be required reading for all members of RCTECH.....

Go to suspension, then page 3.....

Mike Slaughter

Mike, thank's for that link!!! When I wrote HPI's guide that was the main source of the info I acquired. HPI removed the link from the guide and I hadn't been able to find it since...bookmarked now.

And there is the diagram I was talking about on finding roll center...

http://users.telenet.be/elvo/3/RC4.gif