R/C Tech Forums - SC10 4x4 Thread

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Cherry (Post 12632772)

U TalkN about those Fan Boy's with the bad case of attitude ? ...:lol:

I recommend to ignore those guys like I do ...:ha:

No, lol, but actually talking about those fan boys with a bad case of fantasy prone personality, aka FPP.
:tire:

So is there any recommended upgrades or mods or even things that need to be done to improve durability

I think something that I found interesting where "1/10 4wd" is potentially going is this post found on the Hot Bodies D413 thread:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/12631242-post567.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. Deguzman (Post 12631242)

Performance. We didn't really spend too much time thinking about the pros and cons of diff vs slipper. We just tried it. From 1/8 4WD buggy experience we know how much influence the center diff has on the car's handling so why not have one on a 1/10 4WD buggy? The center diff was in fact a suggestion that came from the Tessmanns. The first time I met them after I started working for HPI/HB they had already brought with them a D4 modified to fit a touring car gear diff as a center diff. We tested it back to back with a slipper at WCRC and it immediately showed potential. My first thought was that it must have been forbidden in the rules because it was so obvious yet nobody else has one. I checked all the rule books and sure enough none of them said anything about a center diff so we proceeded with it.

It will be interesting to see how far this goes and if other manufacturers follow suit. But at least to me, I think there is some merit to a center diff setup in a 1/10 scaled vehicle if someone of Tessman's standing thinks so too. Heck, worth at least trying it if its an option in my opinion at least on vehicles limited to only a slipper setup.

But who knows, maybe they are going about it wrong and things will go swing back to where multiple pad slippers become common in 1/8 Buggies, Truggies, etc and 1/10 as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan200487 (Post 12632849)

So is there any recommended upgrades or mods or even things that need to be done to improve durability

For durability, the truck in my opinion is already durable. I think you need to make sure though you get the right shims for the diffs. Depending on what you see, you may want that alloy steering rack that STRC sells.

Other than that, i can't really think of anything from a durability perspective that stood out from what people have reported.

For your question on the exotek chassis, the benefits of it are that if you find you need more weight, it adds it at the lowest point possible versus just stick extra weight on the chassis. On rough tracks from what I saw the vehicle was more stable and didn't get kicked around as easily by the heavies like the Tekno and Losi. You also don't need to the chassis brace either.

I always wondered with the weight bias of the AE how it could be biased more forward if Exotek had made an alloy front chassis plate too. the modular design of the AE could lend itself to benefits like that which other flat plate designs like the Tekno for example couldn't.

I'd recommend if you go with a heavier setup to look at a 4 pole 540 motor at a minimum.

Didn't Tessmann get it handed to him by a Ae 4w using the VTS slipper ?

O man ! :ha:

Ok guys let's get back on topic here it's obvious that there is a difference of opinion on slipper vs cdiff let's just leave it at that and discuss tech on the truck

Cleaned up my post dirtbikekid, your right.

As a side question back on topic, has anyone heard of an axle design combo'd with some wider hexes I am thinking that will allow the usage of zero offset wheels on the SC10 4x4? I don't recall where I heard it, but I remember seeing something about that specific for the sc10 4x4 so you don't use the +3mm offset wheels anymore.

i wonder if the center diff is also superior on high grip tracks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cody227 (Post 12633819)

i wonder if the center diff is also superior on high grip tracks

GuessN DirtBag's post had no effect at all ....

I run on High grip and have tried to make work , had to add pins to stop it from slipping and with extra pins it locked up and became useless ......

I mean centerdiffs in general, not only in the sc10 4x4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cody227 (Post 12633916)

I mean centerdiffs in general, not only in the sc10 4x4.

O Man This is the Sc10 4x4 thread , not a diff thread ..
Start a new thread and discuss ...:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cody227 (Post 12633916)

I mean centerdiffs in general, not only in the sc10 4x4.

Since your question includes the sc10 4x4 as well which has a center diff aftermarket option available, its relevant to the thread unless we are now not going to discuss any options like that toad rc / hot racing hub carrier some are using. ;)

Marcus the owner of RC Shox has a nice explanation not too long ago about the benefits of a center diff in comparison to a slipper setup and his design for the sc10 4x4.

Having owned the product and used it on loose offroad conditions and probably the highest grip, indoor carpet, I found that it worked as advertised. I was up to 8 pins overall and liked how it felt. Marcus did go into an explanation on how the diff action was still present with 10 pins, but I don't recall where that took place.

To me, I personally felt the most benefit I saw was outdoors 1/8 style tracks.

That said, if he comes on here it would be cool to get a setup from Shark on the conditions he is running on as I think the traction is such that he uses slicks. He probably can give great advice on the amount of pins to use when running the center diff setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Cherry (Post 12633845)

I run on High grip and have tried to make work , had to add pins to stop it from slipping and with extra pins it locked up and became useless ......

Strange, I never experienced what you are describing from the unit I owned. For the you unit you purchased and tested WC, what color were the ring spacers? What color were the pins you used?

If you can take pics of the center diff it would be most helpful in getting you situated as there are others currently using it on higher traction conditions like carpet that are not experiencing the problems you have stated you had with the unit you purchased.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Cherry (Post 12633845)

I run on High grip and have tried to make work , had to add pins to stop it from slipping and with extra pins it locked up and became useless ......

Just to clarify,
The C-Diff does not slip... the slipper slips.

The pin count is like changing gear diff fluid weight.
Less pins is like a thinner diff fluid, it will diff out to the end with the least traction.
More pins is like a thicker diff fluid, it will send power to both ends more equally.

Outdoor may be where you see the most benefit but even on high grip surfaces the main benefits I saw was attitude adjustment in the air and if coming out of a 180° turn that puts you right into a triple, I could hold a tight line and pin it up the face (no slip) where I had to take a wider line for a run at it with the slipper. Then of course, just like on an outdoor track you have the tunability of the C-Diff.

06

maybe not suppose to slip but still does.

what I experience and have mention before concerning casing the jump.

As I mentioned previously WC, please answer what I asked the Center Diff that you purchased and had this experience with on your vehicle. That will allow us that have had success using the product to help you out.

Its interesting though that you finally did test the product and I am surprised you haven't reported on it before. I am assuming your purchase was recent so you probably got the new hardened pins. Was there any unusual wear on those parts?

For those looking for more information how the Center Diff works when properly setup, here is something that Marcus posted a bit ago that may be useful:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/12168728-post34095.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by MantisWorx (Post 12168728)

... when a slipper slips you are losing power and acceleration no matter how it is set, which is why some will tell you that it seems like they are losing acceleration when the slipper is set "proper". With any differential it does just that , differentiates between the front/rear and left/right. Since there is no slippage full power is either going to the front, rear or a combination of the two.

Now with that said if your pins/fluid are too light by nature the diff will send power to where it can go to via the easiest path. So as the weight transfers to the rear and the front gets light power will go towards the front. This is why the V1 dif was so badass on loose tracks because when grip is low so much power goes to the front that the rear will not spin barely if at all. when the V1 dif was tried on high grip tracks you would lose acceleration because the rear tires would immediately gain grip forcing all the power to go to the front and the front wheels would "dif out".

So those of you that were on this thread remember when Cam and I were testing and testing and testing to find the right combination of balls and pin location to allow the dif to adjust to these situations. Some see the dif as just a spur gear with holes in it and balls but trust me there is more to it than that.

I honestly believe that an RCShox center dif with all pins will outperform any slipper setup on any track and any grip levels. Here is something to think about, having to run 30k front dif fluid is not optimum. It works but it is just a bandaid because of the slipper. By definition what does thick front dif fluid do?

push on entry
on power steering

If you swap out the slipper for a center dif and no other changes what happens? the truck will not turn and you are forced to try and get the rear to rotate via roll center! With a slipper the front and rear are locked so the truck is never really planted, its always "moving" around. With a center dif since the front and rear are seperate you get greater corner speed. Want to test this theory? take a slipper truck, turn the front wheels to lock and drive about 15 circles and you will see that the truck is not in the same place as it was when you started. do the same with a center dif and the truck will be in almost the same identical spot.

It has been proven that the slipper can obviously work but its a compromise. It has also been proven that a center dif can also work, in the end it just depends on preference. But a slipper will NEVER work good on loose conditions where as a center dif will work on both high bite and low grip conditions.

and some info on pin adding:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/12331035-post34467.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by MantisWorx (Post 12331035)

Yes the more pins you add is just like adding heavier center dif fluid. the more pins=more rear drive. On a high bite track you can run 6-8 with no problem all 10 if the track is like velcro! even with 10 the pins the dif acts centrifugally so it actually gets tighter as you accelerate!

Hope thing helps those interested in using a Center Diff in loose and carpet conditions.

Me personally I liked 8 pins on carpet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Cherry (Post 12634449)

06

maybe not suppose to slip but still does.

what I experience and have mention before concerning casing the jump.

I see what your saying. It's unfortunate that the truck you tried with the C-Diff was not setup correctly. Same as the rear ball diff in a B4. If it is properly tightened, one side or the other will give (or somewhere in between) but if it's set too loose, both sides will give and not only give poor performance, but that will also damage the rings & balls.

If the one you tried slipped at all, you did not experience the C-Diff in good working condition. Kind of like if you were to try a B4.2 with a spanked diff that's too lose and you thought that thing is junk... I'm buying a Losi 22.