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-   -   SC10 4x4 Thread (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-off-road/511493-sc10-4x4-thread.html)

CraigMBA 02-02-2012 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by riverdog (Post 10267957)
Reversing the stock ack bar so the ball stud holes are further back calms the truck down, right? It appears that this will be the same as the rcshox ack bar in the furthest back holes. Any input on this? Seems like a free and easy mod that would help the truck. Thanks.

Except that you have to clearance the snot out of the bellcranks to get the ballstuds to not hit, so much it looks like they are going to break. It is cheap, and it does work, but be aware of why AE updated the steering.

Cameron Kellogg 02-02-2012 12:40 PM


Originally Posted by riverdog (Post 10267957)
Reversing the stock ack bar so the ball stud holes are further back calms the truck down, right? It appears that this will be the same as the rcshox ack bar in the furthest back holes. Any input on this? Seems like a free and easy mod that would help the truck. Thanks.

The RCShox Ack bar is nice because it does give you two holes back and one hole forward over the stock bar location. Flipping the bar is a free test to get a feel of what it does but I think it is a little to far back.

Mizchief 02-02-2012 01:04 PM

Keeping up with connecting wire for saddle packs
 
Anyone have a good trick for keeping up with the male->male bullet connector that joins the saddle packs? I was thinking of a zip tire or string or something to keep it attached to the truck like a wallet on a chain, but don't want it to get in the way or look ghetto.

riverdog 02-02-2012 01:04 PM


Originally Posted by CraigMBA (Post 10267977)
Except that you have to clearance the snot out of the bellcranks to get the ballstuds to not hit, so much it looks like they are going to break. It is cheap, and it does work, but be aware of why AE updated the steering.

Is there more grinding with the flip mod than the rcshox version?

jaybird95 02-02-2012 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by Mizchief (Post 10268111)
Anyone have a good trick for keeping up with the male->male bullet connector that joins the saddle packs? I was thinking of a zip tire or string or something to keep it attached to the truck like a wallet on a chain, but don't want it to get in the way or look ghetto.

Make it shorter.

symmetricon 02-02-2012 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by CraigMBA (Post 10267935)
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1964/rollcenter.jpg

Raising the roll center makes the effective moment between the CG shorter. It makes the car more responsive, makes the car more resistant to roll, and takes away traction. If you are traction rolling, this isn't a bad trade off because giving up a little grip is better that being on your lid.

Adding shims under the inner ball stud will move the instant center further out (longer), induces more chassis roll because the effective moment between the CG and the roll center longer, and increases weight transfer.

Something else to be mindful of - as the suspension moves, the roll center, the instant center, and the CG all move.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...oll-center.gif

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...oll-center.gif

I am good at getting my terminology all mixed up:lol: Thanks for not flaming me, i know we went through this before, but I still get confused(guess Im dumb.lol)
i was reading the hudy setup and got confused by this part
Rear roll center Effect
Lower • More on-throttle grip.
• More weight transfer at rear of car.
• Less grip under braking.
Use to avoid traction rolling at corner entry(increases rear grip).
• Use under low traction conditions.
• Increases traction, reduces rear tire wear.
Higher • Less on-throttle steering.
• Less weight transfer at front of car.
• Car is more responsive.
Use in high grip conditions to avoid traction rolling.• Use on tracks with quick direction changes (chicanes).

In both instances it says raise and lower the RC to avoid traction rolling:confused::eek::lol:

vito 02-02-2012 03:28 PM

did they make room for the 550 motors in the new ft kit ?

Kbmoss 02-02-2012 03:32 PM


Originally Posted by symmetricon (Post 10268240)
I am good at getting my terminology all mixed up:lol: Thanks for not flaming me, i know we went through this before, but I still get confused(guess Im dumb.lol)
i was reading the hudy setup and got confused by this part
Rear roll center Effect
Lower • More on-throttle grip.
• More weight transfer at rear of car.
• Less grip under braking.
Use to avoid traction rolling at corner entry(increases rear grip).
• Use under low traction conditions.
• Increases traction, reduces rear tire wear.
Higher • Less on-throttle steering.
• Less weight transfer at front of car.
• Car is more responsive.
Use in high grip conditions to avoid traction rolling.• Use on tracks with quick direction changes (chicanes).

In both instances it says raise and lower the RC to avoid traction rolling:confused::eek::lol:

Heres my take

The lower cg helps with traction roll into the corner. It does this by having more weight low via dropping the chassis. When you enter the corner that weight is below the "center of the truck" and it takes a lot of initial force to raise the weight above that center line so you dont traction roll into the corner. However, once that weight is transfered above the center line, and you still have an outward turning force it will keep going and traction roll.
So low cg= better initial but bad middle out.

A higher cgis harder to explain. I think of it as a moment, theres those engineering classes paying off and who thought statics was a bs class. When you lower the cg you raise the upper arm up, doing so you add more distance and the moment force is greater. This is like a pry bar with a long handle, small force to move a heavy object.
Now with a high cg, or lowering that upper arm, you cut that long handle off and you have to use more force to move that same object. You only have so much force that the trucks weight and the traction of tires will allow. Since you have cut off that "handle" the truck doesnt have enough force to traction roll. With high grip and carpet tracks the tires play much more into the force via grip, that is why you traction roll more on those style of tracks. So, with the higher cg you will have less grip, but by making that moment force weaker you wont roll. I have noticed alot of people suggesting to make the upper arm level with the lower arm. Doing that is a happy medium between the high and low cg's. It also helps with angular force that the truck crates since your upper pivot points are not centered in the truck. Thats another novel I wont get into right now.

Sway bars also help by taking some of that force from the outside and transferring it to the inside. The bigger the bar the more of that moment force is transfered into side force, but then you lose grip when the tires break loose.

CraigMBA 02-02-2012 05:13 PM


Originally Posted by symmetricon (Post 10268240)
I am good at getting my terminology all mixed up:lol: Thanks for not flaming me, i know we went through this before, but I still get confused(guess Im dumb.lol)

No sweat. A big part of the problem, IMO, is vocabulary (or more appropriately, labels).

So, when I read what you posted, I can see why you were confused - I think it's written poorly. I took the liberty to edit it down a little:




Roll center:

Lower
• More weight transfer ALWAYS.

Higher
• Less weight transfer ALWAYS.
I removed the following because it confuses things.


at rear of car
at front of car
When I was an undergraduate business student, I had a heck of a time passing the first semester double entry accounting class. That whole debits/credits thing didn't make sense, and I couldn't keep any of the accounts straight.

Somewhere I figured out that 1) whatever you did to one side you needed to make an offsetting transaction to the other ALWAYS, and 2) increasing cash was ALWAYS a debit and 3) if you can remember how the entries interact with cash you can ALWAYS figure it out and never get your debits/credits confused.

Literally, this above paragraph is the key to the universe if you want to be successful as an accountant. I defy you to find that explanation in a textbook, likely because it puts a lot of people out of work real quick.

Anyway, if you think about weight transfer, and how increasing weight transfer translates into increased grip, right up to the point where you start traction rolling because you have too much grip, I think it's much easier to keep it straight.

JEFFs SC10 02-02-2012 05:42 PM

So your adding washers to.the front right?

Chad Smith 02-02-2012 05:49 PM

Are the Jconcept Hazard wheels ROAR approved? Or will they make the truck to wide?

CraigMBA 02-02-2012 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by JEFFs SC10 (Post 10269386)
So your adding washers to.the front right?

Depends. Which one of these best describes your situation, and what are you trying to acomplish?

http://www.autocrossitalia.it/ROLLCTR.GIF

Keep in mind, any time you make a change in the suspension geometry, it is a system, and a positive change in one area may have negative effects in another area. Try to visualize the camber curve of the bottom most image.

Cameron Kellogg 02-02-2012 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by Chad Smith (Post 10269421)
Are the Jconcept Hazard wheels ROAR approved? Or will they make the truck to wide?

They make the truck the max ROAR legal width allowed.

lodhammerdin 02-02-2012 06:23 PM


Originally Posted by Mizchief (Post 10268111)
Anyone have a good trick for keeping up with the male->male bullet connector that joins the saddle packs? I was thinking of a zip tire or string or something to keep it attached to the truck like a wallet on a chain, but don't want it to get in the way or look ghetto.

Just make It as short as possible and you'll be fine. Doesn't need to be tied down to anything.

MantisWorx 02-02-2012 06:36 PM

Round 1 RCpro event starts tomorrow! lots of heavy duty competition 216 entries at least 40 in SC! I made some major changes last week and i hope they carry over to this track but i think i am onto something with this truck or at least optimizing the center dif. Rear rotation helps ALOT. I have a new paint sponser now which is cool, im tired of painting bodies:lol: This week i completely tore the truck down, replaced all of the bearings with AVID stuff, new shocks,nitride hinge pins, new spec pistons and some prototype V2 centerdif parts.Amazing how much smoother the truck feels, I am ready for battle!
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x...2-02185545.jpg


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