1LikesTLR 22 Racing Buggy Thread
12-18-2011, 04:24 PM
FWIW, there is no reason that the balls would flat-spot or dent the rings unless the diff were tightened beyond the point when the spring bottomed out. Just can't happen. It's a good idea to spin the diff with the motor on each side to burnish a line in the rings and settle the tension.
So you can just tighten down the diff screw without working it in and it won't dent the rings or damage the balls as long as the spring coils don't bind?
Whatever works for you I guess.
I still feel nothing like this is absolute, even when it is proclaimed to be so, so the "there is no reason that..." and "Just can't happen" statements may not be facts based on actual testing?
I've had damage done that I felt was due to overtightening without working the assembly so I choose not to do this any more.
12-18-2011, 06:06 PM
Didn't mean to put anyone down with the comment, just pointing out that you can't damage the diff balls/rings by over tightening unless it is tightened significantly beyond the point past which the spring is bottomed out. This is a fact. AE's diff assembly instructions to "tighten the screw until the spring just bottoms out, then back off 1/4 turn." There would be a much higher occurrence of diff damage in the AE camp if balls and rings were delicate.
12-18-2011, 06:18 PM
Tech Apprentice
It feels like the spring is to soft and doesnt keep the same tension after backing it off as the AE ones i'm used to. Gonna try just backing off 1/16 next time or just use AE spring. Im not convinced overtightening is the culprit yet either.
12-18-2011, 07:21 PM
After breaking in the Ball diff and having seven race days on it I have my diff spring snugged down. Not forced but tighten till you feel the spring bottoms out then stop.
For break in I set it up as a losi pro told me(cant remember which one.) but he said for after assembling the diff only tighten it down enough so you can't spin the gear while holding the out drives by sticking a wrench in the slot. Then build the transmition and install it. Then rotate holding every other wheel while applying low throttle. Tighten 1/8 to 1/4 turn and repeat. Final test I do the flick method. Hold the slipper still and flick a tire with your hand. You want about 1 to 1 1/2 rotations out of the tire. If its more tighten the diff 1/8 and repeat.
As i stated After my diff was fully broke in and raced a few days my spring is bottomed out. So I agree it would be nice to see TLR come out with a slightly stiffer spring so it wasn't bottomed out. But mine is holding up strong after being raced on carpet and high traction dirt, so of it doesn't come so be it.
For break in I set it up as a losi pro told me(cant remember which one.) but he said for after assembling the diff only tighten it down enough so you can't spin the gear while holding the out drives by sticking a wrench in the slot. Then build the transmition and install it. Then rotate holding every other wheel while applying low throttle. Tighten 1/8 to 1/4 turn and repeat. Final test I do the flick method. Hold the slipper still and flick a tire with your hand. You want about 1 to 1 1/2 rotations out of the tire. If its more tighten the diff 1/8 and repeat.
As i stated After my diff was fully broke in and raced a few days my spring is bottomed out. So I agree it would be nice to see TLR come out with a slightly stiffer spring so it wasn't bottomed out. But mine is holding up strong after being raced on carpet and high traction dirt, so of it doesn't come so be it.
12-18-2011, 07:24 PM
anybody have a pic of an orion r10 pro installed in this buggy in rear motor config? thanks search came up with nothing
12-18-2011, 07:30 PM
http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...921/index.html
12-18-2011, 07:32 PM
12-18-2011, 07:33 PM
Scroll down in the link below and you will see how Matt Chambers has his installed.
http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...921/index.html
http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...921/index.html
12-18-2011, 09:05 PM
FWIW?
So you can just tighten down the diff screw without working it in and it won't dent the rings or damage the balls as long as the spring coils don't bind?
Whatever works for you I guess.
I still feel nothing like this is absolute, even when it is proclaimed to be so, so the "there is no reason that..." and "Just can't happen" statements may not be facts based on actual testing?
I've had damage done that I felt was due to overtightening without working the assembly so I choose not to do this any more.
So you can just tighten down the diff screw without working it in and it won't dent the rings or damage the balls as long as the spring coils don't bind?
Whatever works for you I guess.
I still feel nothing like this is absolute, even when it is proclaimed to be so, so the "there is no reason that..." and "Just can't happen" statements may not be facts based on actual testing?
I've had damage done that I felt was due to overtightening without working the assembly so I choose not to do this any more.
12-18-2011, 10:25 PM
After breaking in the Ball diff and having seven race days on it I have my diff spring snugged down. Not forced but tighten till you feel the spring bottoms out then stop.
For break in I set it up as a losi pro told me(cant remember which one.) but he said for after assembling the diff only tighten it down enough so you can't spin the gear while holding the out drives by sticking a wrench in the slot. Then build the transmition and install it. Then rotate holding every other wheel while applying low throttle. Tighten 1/8 to 1/4 turn and repeat. Final test I do the flick method. Hold the slipper still and flick a tire with your hand. You want about 1 to 1 1/2 rotations out of the tire. If its more tighten the diff 1/8 and repeat.
As i stated After my diff was fully broke in and raced a few days my spring is bottomed out. So I agree it would be nice to see TLR come out with a slightly stiffer spring so it wasn't bottomed out. But mine is holding up strong after being raced on carpet and high traction dirt, so of it doesn't come so be it.
For break in I set it up as a losi pro told me(cant remember which one.) but he said for after assembling the diff only tighten it down enough so you can't spin the gear while holding the out drives by sticking a wrench in the slot. Then build the transmition and install it. Then rotate holding every other wheel while applying low throttle. Tighten 1/8 to 1/4 turn and repeat. Final test I do the flick method. Hold the slipper still and flick a tire with your hand. You want about 1 to 1 1/2 rotations out of the tire. If its more tighten the diff 1/8 and repeat.
As i stated After my diff was fully broke in and raced a few days my spring is bottomed out. So I agree it would be nice to see TLR come out with a slightly stiffer spring so it wasn't bottomed out. But mine is holding up strong after being raced on carpet and high traction dirt, so of it doesn't come so be it.
12-19-2011, 01:39 AM
NEWB
Im thinking of getting the RTR any thoughts? I will be racing on indoor clay. How dose the RTR compare to the kit version. What are the differences between the RTR and TLR version when comparing rolling chassies side by side minus all electronics?
Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Josey Wales; 12-19-2011 at 01:40 AM. Reason: info
12-19-2011, 07:31 AM
Fixes for 22
Hi guys, I have been changing my mind between this buggy, dex210 and now 22T. I still love the look of this 22 buggy though. I have tried reading through all the pages in this forum, but it takes some time filtering through. What are the problems to look out for on this rig, things like slop and what are the fixes? I think I've decide the 22 buggy it is, but want to get into it, knowing the challenges. Are there any must have add ons or are they merely bling factor?
Thanks
Thanks
12-19-2011, 07:42 AM
After breaking in the Ball diff and having seven race days on it I have my diff spring snugged down. Not forced but tighten till you feel the spring bottoms out then stop.
For break in I set it up as a losi pro told me(cant remember which one.) but he said for after assembling the diff only tighten it down enough so you can't spin the gear while holding the out drives by sticking a wrench in the slot. Then build the transmition and install it. Then rotate holding every other wheel while applying low throttle. Tighten 1/8 to 1/4 turn and repeat. Final test I do the flick method. Hold the slipper still and flick a tire with your hand. You want about 1 to 1 1/2 rotations out of the tire. If its more tighten the diff 1/8 and repeat.
As i stated After my diff was fully broke in and raced a few days my spring is bottomed out. So I agree it would be nice to see TLR come out with a slightly stiffer spring so it wasn't bottomed out. But mine is holding up strong after being raced on carpet and high traction dirt, so of it doesn't come so be it.
For break in I set it up as a losi pro told me(cant remember which one.) but he said for after assembling the diff only tighten it down enough so you can't spin the gear while holding the out drives by sticking a wrench in the slot. Then build the transmition and install it. Then rotate holding every other wheel while applying low throttle. Tighten 1/8 to 1/4 turn and repeat. Final test I do the flick method. Hold the slipper still and flick a tire with your hand. You want about 1 to 1 1/2 rotations out of the tire. If its more tighten the diff 1/8 and repeat.
As i stated After my diff was fully broke in and raced a few days my spring is bottomed out. So I agree it would be nice to see TLR come out with a slightly stiffer spring so it wasn't bottomed out. But mine is holding up strong after being raced on carpet and high traction dirt, so of it doesn't come so be it.
This is how I do my diffs also except I DONT use any tools to hold the outdrives to test for slippage or to see if its even close, Because if its not close or it is close and it does slip by hand you just fried it. Snug it and install in car and break it in until flick test looks good. Run it and keep on flick testing it. When it spins to much put a small turn on it. Start the slipper with about 2mm threads showing and it will be good for a long time.
12-19-2011, 11:52 AM
This is how I do my diffs also except I DONT use any tools to hold the outdrives to test for slippage or to see if its even close, Because if its not close or it is close and it does slip by hand you just fried it. Snug it and install in car and break it in until flick test looks good. Run it and keep on flick testing it. When it spins to much put a small turn on it. Start the slipper with about 2mm threads showing and it will be good for a long time.
One slip and it's hurtin.
Flick test is fast, easy and accurate.
I also have to agree that my diff screw is pretty much bottomed out when the diff is fully broken in and it has been like that for many, many race/practice days.
My diff is still super smooth but you can tell it is now dry. Never got gritty or notchy. Never slipped it, ever.
The guys that have problems with this diff are not dumb, they just need to realize that this diff needs to be much tighter than all previous ball diffs.
It may be the added number of balls and the location of the balls further out on the rings or the spring tension as mentioned not strong enough to apply enough pressure to compensate for the wider pattern.Whatever the difference is, this diff can slip easily if not set up to run tight from the very start.
That warning has been common knowledge around the tracks and forums for quite a while but is not common knowledge for the new TLR enthusiast that may not be at a team guy's track or may not be reading forums. It can frustrate them whether they have ball diff experience or not.
May be worthwhile for TLR to put a "Special Attention" note in this area of the build instructions for future kit builders.
12-19-2011, 12:30 PM
I am new to the electric world. I am looking at the 22.
Would this ESC/motor combo be suitable for the 22?
http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-combo-sc-a.html
If so, any advice on gearing? The 22 manual says 76spur 24pinion for a 10.5 turn motor. Would that be the starting point?
If not, any suggestions on a similar combo around that price point?
Would this ESC/motor combo be suitable for the 22?
http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-combo-sc-a.html
If so, any advice on gearing? The 22 manual says 76spur 24pinion for a 10.5 turn motor. Would that be the starting point?
If not, any suggestions on a similar combo around that price point?