Electric 1/8th Buggy....why so heavy?
08-18-2009, 09:23 PM
#32
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
getting a RELIABLE AND RACEWORTHY buggy under 7lbs with a reasonable battery, about 400 gms. min. will take fancy expensive materials.
so does everyone want to go down the marginal battery and drop another 200.00 + in bling path?
or would you rather see roar raise the min weight to around 7.5 lbs so the manufacturers dont have a reason to pimp out their buggys in an attempt to get them light?
also this will take away the pressure of guys wanting to run smaller less capacity packs that will wear out faster and possibly melt down
.
i for one dont want the class to become more of a money pit than it already is. what do you think?
so does everyone want to go down the marginal battery and drop another 200.00 + in bling path?
or would you rather see roar raise the min weight to around 7.5 lbs so the manufacturers dont have a reason to pimp out their buggys in an attempt to get them light?
also this will take away the pressure of guys wanting to run smaller less capacity packs that will wear out faster and possibly melt down
. i for one dont want the class to become more of a money pit than it already is. what do you think?
08-18-2009, 09:35 PM
#33
08-19-2009, 08:36 AM
#34
Really interesting thread here....
I think on the big burly tracks, most have said it here, you kinda want the weight and beefiness to simply handle the track.
BUT...I race at SRS in AZ where it really is a 10th scale track, but 8th scalers show up huge and can sometimes/ a lot of times are the biggest showing. This is where I think a lightweight 8th would shine. The HB Ve8 for example would simply rule I think (from what I've seen). The Ve8 is even a lower profile car that almost looks like a 1/10 scale D4 or B44's big brother. I could only imagine running that thing on 3S or who knows...2S!!! This would be the ultimate lightweight 8th racer!!
I think this is where you will see lightwieght 8th scale take thier place in the RC world.....The smaller / smoother 10th scale tracks where 8ths are still showing up.
Big burly tracks = aluminum chassis, huge difs, and 6S/4S batteries.
Smaller 1/10 tracks = composite chassis, smaller difs (slipper maybe), 3S battery, possibly 2S (you never know).
I think on the big burly tracks, most have said it here, you kinda want the weight and beefiness to simply handle the track.
BUT...I race at SRS in AZ where it really is a 10th scale track, but 8th scalers show up huge and can sometimes/ a lot of times are the biggest showing. This is where I think a lightweight 8th would shine. The HB Ve8 for example would simply rule I think (from what I've seen). The Ve8 is even a lower profile car that almost looks like a 1/10 scale D4 or B44's big brother. I could only imagine running that thing on 3S or who knows...2S!!! This would be the ultimate lightweight 8th racer!!
I think this is where you will see lightwieght 8th scale take thier place in the RC world.....The smaller / smoother 10th scale tracks where 8ths are still showing up.
Big burly tracks = aluminum chassis, huge difs, and 6S/4S batteries.
Smaller 1/10 tracks = composite chassis, smaller difs (slipper maybe), 3S battery, possibly 2S (you never know).
Some of the guys out here at OCRC have already used 3S and 2S batteries with good success.
I think the 1/8 electric segment has yet to find its place in the R/C world. Will it ever be big enough to race on its own? Or will it be rin with nitro events on big tracks? Or electric events on small tracks? The JBRL Series in Socal runs a nitro series and electric series, both with a 1/8 electric class. One has had 28 different participants and the other 22. Only 4 drivers have raced at least one race in both. Obviously, if you are already racing nitro, you will choose to race with the nitro group and vice versa.
The future of electric 1/8 will depend a lot upon where newcomers will migrate. As a first time R/C racer with a brand new 1/8 electric buggy, would you choose to race with the nitro cars or the electric cars if given the choice?
I think it will end up falling one direction eventually and that will dicate the direction car designs take.
08-19-2009, 08:41 AM
#35
Well, this sure seemed to create alot of conversation 
I was thinking the size of a 1/8th buggy, but around the 5lb mark.
The Traxxas Slash has the dimensions right, and is around 4.75lbs. I bet they could make a 4wd version around 5.5lbs, and still use 1/10th electronics (ESC, single LiPo, no center diff, etc) and still as durable....
I was thinking the size of a 1/8th buggy, but around the 5lb mark. The Traxxas Slash has the dimensions right, and is around 4.75lbs. I bet they could make a 4wd version around 5.5lbs, and still use 1/10th electronics (ESC, single LiPo, no center diff, etc) and still as durable....
08-19-2009, 09:18 AM
#36
The thing that bothers me is that e-1/8 could be in danger of becoming just another 1/10 class in some respects.
I understand the mfgs are thinking that some folks already have 1/10 packs, ROAR rules, blah, blah. It just seems short sighted to me.
I started converting back in '07 because I didn't like the 1/10th cars. I thought they were too fragile and I wanted to get out on a bigger track and race with the smokers, but I didn't want to be bothered with having to deal with nitro - tuning, noise, & mess. E-1/8 brought me back into a hobby I long forgot about 25 years ago.
I just don't want e-1/8 to be looked at as a stepchild class and something to be done when it is cold. Properly setup, these cars are more than capable of running with nitros for up to 20 minutes.
I guess it just depends on where you live. Depending on what the mfg's do, we might have two types of e-1/8s. Purpose made, but they are little more fragile for the smaller tracks and the frankenconversions for the big tracks.
My only concern is that marketing has such a big impact on what people do with their money and one of the things I see a lot of is that people tend to buy based on magazine ads not really knowing what works and doesn't for their particular situation. This can be very frustrating and can lead to very expensive mistakes which could drive people from the class altogether.
For instance, I have seen cases where a guy runs out and picks up high kv system and 4s packs but then gets pissed because he can't make a 15 minute main without dumping which is the norm where he races. Of course, he doesn't know any better and the manufacturers don't seem to really want to admit when their systems work and don't so it is left up to us weekend warriors to educate folks.
Nevertheless, I am glad it seems to be gaining traction.
I understand the mfgs are thinking that some folks already have 1/10 packs, ROAR rules, blah, blah. It just seems short sighted to me.
I started converting back in '07 because I didn't like the 1/10th cars. I thought they were too fragile and I wanted to get out on a bigger track and race with the smokers, but I didn't want to be bothered with having to deal with nitro - tuning, noise, & mess. E-1/8 brought me back into a hobby I long forgot about 25 years ago.
I just don't want e-1/8 to be looked at as a stepchild class and something to be done when it is cold. Properly setup, these cars are more than capable of running with nitros for up to 20 minutes.
I guess it just depends on where you live. Depending on what the mfg's do, we might have two types of e-1/8s. Purpose made, but they are little more fragile for the smaller tracks and the frankenconversions for the big tracks.
My only concern is that marketing has such a big impact on what people do with their money and one of the things I see a lot of is that people tend to buy based on magazine ads not really knowing what works and doesn't for their particular situation. This can be very frustrating and can lead to very expensive mistakes which could drive people from the class altogether.
For instance, I have seen cases where a guy runs out and picks up high kv system and 4s packs but then gets pissed because he can't make a 15 minute main without dumping which is the norm where he races. Of course, he doesn't know any better and the manufacturers don't seem to really want to admit when their systems work and don't so it is left up to us weekend warriors to educate folks.
Nevertheless, I am glad it seems to be gaining traction.
08-19-2009, 09:35 AM
#37
I think you will find that once you get your "Slash-8" up to 1/8th scale speeds it will not seem very durable anymore. I have seen Slashes break even at their pathetic stock speeds. I can't imagine what they would do at 1/8th speeds. Two different companies were building this type of car (wish I could remember who it was). They were basically overgrown 1/10th cars with 1/8th wheels on them. I thought one of them was Kyosho, but now I can't find any info on it.
These cars could be fun in their own class, but they wouldn't survive with other 1/8ths. Just like last year when we got enough people together at Leisure to have an E-1/8th class and we had to have separate practices because the 1/10th guys didn't give the bigger buggies any respect or courtesy. I saw several attempts by the 1/10th buggies to pass the 1/8ths in mid air only to get crushed on landing. I can't fault the 1/8th drivers for this type of incident.
08-19-2009, 10:53 AM
#38
The thing that bothers me is that e-1/8 could be in danger of becoming just another 1/10 class in some respects.
I understand the mfgs are thinking that some folks already have 1/10 packs, ROAR rules, blah, blah. It just seems short sighted to me.
I started converting back in '07 because I didn't like the 1/10th cars. I thought they were too fragile and I wanted to get out on a bigger track and race with the smokers, but I didn't want to be bothered with having to deal with nitro - tuning, noise, & mess. E-1/8 brought me back into a hobby I long forgot about 25 years ago.
I just don't want e-1/8 to be looked at as a stepchild class and something to be done when it is cold. Properly setup, these cars are more than capable of running with nitros for up to 20 minutes.
I guess it just depends on where you live. Depending on what the mfg's do, we might have two types of e-1/8s. Purpose made, but they are little more fragile for the smaller tracks and the frankenconversions for the big tracks.
My only concern is that marketing has such a big impact on what people do with their money and one of the things I see a lot of is that people tend to buy based on magazine ads not really knowing what works and doesn't for their particular situation. This can be very frustrating and can lead to very expensive mistakes which could drive people from the class altogether.
For instance, I have seen cases where a guy runs out and picks up high kv system and 4s packs but then gets pissed because he can't make a 15 minute main without dumping which is the norm where he races. Of course, he doesn't know any better and the manufacturers don't seem to really want to admit when their systems work and don't so it is left up to us weekend warriors to educate folks.
Nevertheless, I am glad it seems to be gaining traction.
I understand the mfgs are thinking that some folks already have 1/10 packs, ROAR rules, blah, blah. It just seems short sighted to me.
I started converting back in '07 because I didn't like the 1/10th cars. I thought they were too fragile and I wanted to get out on a bigger track and race with the smokers, but I didn't want to be bothered with having to deal with nitro - tuning, noise, & mess. E-1/8 brought me back into a hobby I long forgot about 25 years ago.
I just don't want e-1/8 to be looked at as a stepchild class and something to be done when it is cold. Properly setup, these cars are more than capable of running with nitros for up to 20 minutes.
I guess it just depends on where you live. Depending on what the mfg's do, we might have two types of e-1/8s. Purpose made, but they are little more fragile for the smaller tracks and the frankenconversions for the big tracks.
My only concern is that marketing has such a big impact on what people do with their money and one of the things I see a lot of is that people tend to buy based on magazine ads not really knowing what works and doesn't for their particular situation. This can be very frustrating and can lead to very expensive mistakes which could drive people from the class altogether.
For instance, I have seen cases where a guy runs out and picks up high kv system and 4s packs but then gets pissed because he can't make a 15 minute main without dumping which is the norm where he races. Of course, he doesn't know any better and the manufacturers don't seem to really want to admit when their systems work and don't so it is left up to us weekend warriors to educate folks.
Nevertheless, I am glad it seems to be gaining traction.
As long as there is a minimum weight, and it is enforced across the board, things won't get out of control. The biggest problem in racing is lack of rules enforcement. Then when everyone runs illegal is becomes acceptable.
08-19-2009, 11:12 AM
#39
I personally like the "bigness" of 1/8th scale. Yes, it is heavy, but it is durable! I think this makes the class super versatile. For example, a few weeks ago I ran at WCRC, a good-sized indoor track, in an electric 1/8th class. The 1/8ths were the fastest things out there. This week, I am racing with nitros at ARC, a large, 1/8th scale outdoor track. Totally different environments, but the same car for both tracks. Both on 4s.
I don't really see that versatility with other classes. For me, there are a few tracks close enought to race at, but nothing I would consider local (yet). Every track I have been to has different classes. However, there is always an 1/8th class that will let me run. I don't see that with other electrics or nitros. Not even the SC class as of now.
To me, 1/8ths are super durable, very fast and extremely fun! I haven't tried everything out there, but my 8ight buggy always brings a smile on my face. I like focusing my attention on one car, and that is why I am selling my other cars. I know that I will always have somewhere to race my 8ight.
I don't really see that versatility with other classes. For me, there are a few tracks close enought to race at, but nothing I would consider local (yet). Every track I have been to has different classes. However, there is always an 1/8th class that will let me run. I don't see that with other electrics or nitros. Not even the SC class as of now.
To me, 1/8ths are super durable, very fast and extremely fun! I haven't tried everything out there, but my 8ight buggy always brings a smile on my face. I like focusing my attention on one car, and that is why I am selling my other cars. I know that I will always have somewhere to race my 8ight.
08-19-2009, 11:46 AM
#40
instead of thinking about making an 1/8 lighter,think about making a 1/10 scale bigger.bottom line is everything breaks at some point.
i had a crt.5 a while back,and with a little work ,it was almost bullet proof.it was just too small(for me).but it was soooo close to being just right.with just a little more work,like a longer chassis,and maybe slightly longer a-arms,it could have been the last vehicle i owned.i almost finished converting it to electric and such,seeing how this is about electric,and yes i know rc-monster makes almost what i wanted.i wanted an even longer chassis and plastic a-arms,well,not aluminum.
the benefits?a car that could easily be fast on a two cell system,and handle just fine on a typical 1/8 track,still be durable,use 1/8 tires,and not be as expensive as an 1/8.
i have seen a few threads where people wanted a 4wd stadium truck(electric),and it truly baffles me that this one class is almost totally ignored by manufacturers.
i had a crt.5 a while back,and with a little work ,it was almost bullet proof.it was just too small(for me).but it was soooo close to being just right.with just a little more work,like a longer chassis,and maybe slightly longer a-arms,it could have been the last vehicle i owned.i almost finished converting it to electric and such,seeing how this is about electric,and yes i know rc-monster makes almost what i wanted.i wanted an even longer chassis and plastic a-arms,well,not aluminum.
the benefits?a car that could easily be fast on a two cell system,and handle just fine on a typical 1/8 track,still be durable,use 1/8 tires,and not be as expensive as an 1/8.
i have seen a few threads where people wanted a 4wd stadium truck(electric),and it truly baffles me that this one class is almost totally ignored by manufacturers.
08-19-2009, 07:06 PM
#42
Hey Edumakated, I see your in Oak Park, have you raced at the Hines Park track? Anyways the reason E-8's are soo heavy is the battery and the big solid piece of steel we call a brushless motor. A nitro motor is still relatively light for its size because its mostly aluminum. So if you want less weight start with the least amount of battery that will still allow you to finish your main. Smaller battery is cheaper to. You can also get a BCE chassis for the Losi's which shaves I think about 4 oz from the car. As far a motor weight goes I don't know who makes the lighest ones but then again if you start taken material away from the cans you might run into heat problems. I race 1/10 also and can honestly say that on the big outdoor tracks that electric 1/8 is a ton more fun.
08-19-2009, 09:37 PM
#44
Just wanted to mention that because of the comments about dropping to 2 or 3s to save weight...
The chosen voltage of the battery should NOT directly impact the weight of the car. Really, it doesn't matter if it's 2s, 3s, 4s, or 6s.... to get the same performance and run time, the battery will pretty much weigh the same. To cut the weight of the battery in half, you could drop from 4s to 2s... but you could also have reduced the capacity of the pack by 50% and have a battery that weighs half as much, but is still 4s. (4s 6400mah could become 2s 6400mah or 4s 3200mah)
The motor or gearing may have to change also, as it would with going from 4s to 2s anyway. Because if you sacrifice to make it light, you probably also have to "motor down" a little to make the system efficient.
The chosen voltage of the battery should NOT directly impact the weight of the car. Really, it doesn't matter if it's 2s, 3s, 4s, or 6s.... to get the same performance and run time, the battery will pretty much weigh the same. To cut the weight of the battery in half, you could drop from 4s to 2s... but you could also have reduced the capacity of the pack by 50% and have a battery that weighs half as much, but is still 4s. (4s 6400mah could become 2s 6400mah or 4s 3200mah)
The motor or gearing may have to change also, as it would with going from 4s to 2s anyway. Because if you sacrifice to make it light, you probably also have to "motor down" a little to make the system efficient.
08-20-2009, 01:30 AM
#45
I think Jammin' missed the mark when they made the CRT.5, They should have made a 1/10th scale truggy using stadum truck tires instead.
I still can't figure out why a 4wd stadium truck was never made by one of the big manufacturers. I think with brushless and a 2s Lipo they would be the fastest thing on the track and easier to drive than 4wd buggy... more newb friendly. And back to the subject of this thread they would be right around the 5lb mark.
I still can't figure out why a 4wd stadium truck was never made by one of the big manufacturers. I think with brushless and a 2s Lipo they would be the fastest thing on the track and easier to drive than 4wd buggy... more newb friendly. And back to the subject of this thread they would be right around the 5lb mark.