52LikesCarcar
12-13-2012, 03:04 PM
#9631
Tech Master
iTrader: (23)
I wasn't aware that our Q and main process was broken, did something happen?
Every race I've attended in the past 7 years has been, qualified on the clock with heads up mains (including the IIC).
I'm cool to do whatever but, do we really want to change this?
Every race I've attended in the past 7 years has been, qualified on the clock with heads up mains (including the IIC).
I'm cool to do whatever but, do we really want to change this?
12-13-2012, 07:45 PM
#9635
12-13-2012, 09:03 PM
#9636
Just a suggestion, what would it be like if we did an RC night like most other forms of motorsport? Single (or 2 or 3) car qualifying, put your car on the track, run 2-3 laps the best you can, thats your start position for the first heat. First heat, you race for position on the track, your finish dictates your start for heat 2. Finals can be a points calc from both heats.
The issue of what heat your in etc, easy. Heats are sorted based on the quallifying, and include bump ups for the finals. You qually badly, your stuck in heat E, you start 1st in heat E main. Then you can bump up as far as your luck will take you. Its not perfect, but ive found it to be more enjoyable, as your constantly racing other cars the whole event, not the clock.
You may think it will take alot longer etc, but I bet it could be done
If we tried it sometime at least it would be different which could be fun too ahh, the good ole days of circle track racing...
12-14-2012, 08:18 AM
#9637
Maybe we could have a designated time on practice night to practice standing starts. When Jim runs controlled practice (20 min for mini, then 20min for stock) we could start the session with a standing start so everyone could get the hang of it without changing race night procedures.
I know as a newbie, the starts were particularly stressful as you're thrown into them in the main without any experience. (Some people aren't even aware of it until they are on the driver's stand and are told that everyone goes on the tone. Huh, what!?!)
Now after a few you start to get the hang of it although I think our mains would be better quality without first turn carnage.
(Of course we could use club funds for group brain surgery to imbed the idea that a race is not won on the first corner)
Perhaps we test in practice before changing race night procedures?
Dean.
I know as a newbie, the starts were particularly stressful as you're thrown into them in the main without any experience. (Some people aren't even aware of it until they are on the driver's stand and are told that everyone goes on the tone. Huh, what!?!)
Now after a few you start to get the hang of it although I think our mains would be better quality without first turn carnage.
(Of course we could use club funds for group brain surgery to imbed the idea that a race is not won on the first corner
)Perhaps we test in practice before changing race night procedures?
Dean.
12-14-2012, 09:33 AM
#9638
Thanks for all the input everyone. I think/hope the wider spacing of cars on the grid is the only thing we need to do.
The only goal is to elmininate the carnage in the first corner, and as much as some wish everyone would suddenly start driving cautiously, we'd all be sticking our heads in the sand if we believed it was actually going to happen.
Wider spacing, plus clear grid spots, hopefully accomplishes:
-Cleaner starts/first laps
-Faster gridding
-No rule changes/qualifying format changes
I am NOT advocating heads up starts for qualifying at WCICS any longer, I think the spacing is the simple, and best, solution.
At club racing we'll experiement with the spacing to get a rough idea, but it will always be track/grip/class dependant. We may end up erring on the side of caution and suggest a standard 10' spacing or something.
But other than the wider spacing, heads up starts in qualifying would be run exactly the same; still with the IFMAR computer setting. With IFMAR now you maybe have 20' between you and the car in front/behind, now it'll be 10. Other than that, everything is the same. If the car behind has caught you, it's qualifying, you pull over and let them pass. The computer timing is exactly the same, the tone sounds and everyone goes, rather than being called, but otherwise it's the same. No need for shift or anything. You're still being recorded as your own 6min qualifying time. No different than if the RD just called out the names really fast.
If you've caught the car in front, you're beating them on qualie time, just like with an IFMAR start.
You mean qualifying against the clock like: F1, Indy, MotoGP, karting, etc even the crash happy roundy round Nascar? RC follows the lead of all those full scale racing bodies that qualify against the clock. Then there's the RC equivalents, Roar, IIC (top 3 consequtive laps), Snowbirds, etc. The difference being full scale does fastest single lap, RC does fastest 6min heat (which is arguably more representative, full scale just doesn't have the time to do it that way). But in all the above you're not qualifying while in the middle of a 10 car race, you're qualifying against the clock.
So WCICS will continue with that style. But for more action in club racing, plus testing to get an appropriate spacing, it'll be closer racing action at the club. But as above, it's qualifying, no clock blocking.
No, not broken at all. Just looking for input into how to clean up the first lap, and Wayne hit it on the head, just space them out more. As above, just some experimenting at CarCar.
Josh
The only goal is to elmininate the carnage in the first corner, and as much as some wish everyone would suddenly start driving cautiously, we'd all be sticking our heads in the sand if we believed it was actually going to happen.
Wider spacing, plus clear grid spots, hopefully accomplishes:
-Cleaner starts/first laps
-Faster gridding
-No rule changes/qualifying format changes
I am NOT advocating heads up starts for qualifying at WCICS any longer, I think the spacing is the simple, and best, solution.
Yes. This means that in order to have a better qualifying run than another driver, you have to physically finish ahead of them on the track. In other words, you are battling for position just like a main. Obviously it's not the fairest method since the lower your starting position, the greater disadvantage you start with. However, it adds excitement because you are racing for track position. For example, say Pete is 1st on the grid and I'm 2nd. In order to beat his qualifying time in that race, I have to overtake him on the track. Makes it tougher to move up, for sure.
If people are interested in trying it, a good way to go might be:
1st round: Staggered starts
Following rounds: Heads-up, ordered by current qualifying position
In my opinion, you are only obligated to let someone pass if you are being lapped. In other words, defend your position (or not, Ivan
) just like you would in a main.
This method goes back to the days before the software supported staggered starts. Basically, every run was run like a main. Are staggered starts more fair and accurate? Yes, definitely. Are staggered starts less fun? Yes, in my opinion. If people don't feel that's a good trade-off, I totally understand and I agree staggered starts are the way to go at 'serious' events. But for 'fun' club racing, it might be worth trying out.
If people are interested in trying it, a good way to go might be:
1st round: Staggered starts
Following rounds: Heads-up, ordered by current qualifying position
In my opinion, you are only obligated to let someone pass if you are being lapped. In other words, defend your position (or not, Ivan
) just like you would in a main.This method goes back to the days before the software supported staggered starts. Basically, every run was run like a main. Are staggered starts more fair and accurate? Yes, definitely. Are staggered starts less fun? Yes, in my opinion. If people don't feel that's a good trade-off, I totally understand and I agree staggered starts are the way to go at 'serious' events. But for 'fun' club racing, it might be worth trying out.
But other than the wider spacing, heads up starts in qualifying would be run exactly the same; still with the IFMAR computer setting. With IFMAR now you maybe have 20' between you and the car in front/behind, now it'll be 10. Other than that, everything is the same. If the car behind has caught you, it's qualifying, you pull over and let them pass. The computer timing is exactly the same, the tone sounds and everyone goes, rather than being called, but otherwise it's the same. No need for shift or anything. You're still being recorded as your own 6min qualifying time. No different than if the RD just called out the names really fast.
If you've caught the car in front, you're beating them on qualie time, just like with an IFMAR start.
So WCICS will continue with that style. But for more action in club racing, plus testing to get an appropriate spacing, it'll be closer racing action at the club. But as above, it's qualifying, no clock blocking.
Josh
12-14-2012, 09:53 AM
#9639
Josh, if I read Steve's post 9629 correctly, he's suggesting that with heads up the timer starts for everyone at the beep, not when each individual racer crosses the start line. You are saying that with HU we still get our individual times from when we cross the start line. Please confirm this. Thanks.
12-14-2012, 09:56 AM
#9640
Colin, What he is saying is do a heads up style start where everyone oes on the tone, but keep the qualifying format as it is now. Instead of calling names, everyone goes on he tone.
12-14-2012, 10:33 AM
#9641
Colin is correct though. What Josh is suggesting is not what I was talking about.
12-14-2012, 10:41 AM
#9642
No, he's just taking the idea's and expanding on them.
Jim is right, nothing is broken. But maybe doing a heads up style start in a couple of qualifiers, everyone still on their own clock, may be a good idea. It gives us practise for the starts of the mains which is what all the cnversation has derived from.
Jim is right, nothing is broken. But maybe doing a heads up style start in a couple of qualifiers, everyone still on their own clock, may be a good idea. It gives us practise for the starts of the mains which is what all the cnversation has derived from.
12-14-2012, 12:25 PM
#9644
Depends on the TC. In my TC6.1 I have 35w AE shock oil in it and it's good. Other cars are running 1000w diff oil, which is roughly equivalent to 80w shock oil. Som are 3000w diff oil.
12-15-2012, 01:12 AM
#9645
Josh, if I read Steve's post 9629 correctly, he's suggesting that with heads up the timer starts for everyone at the beep, not when each individual racer crosses the start line. You are saying that with HU we still get our individual times from when we cross the start line. Please confirm this. Thanks.
From what we saw tonight, it worked quite well, no carnage in the first laps, just the occasional racer making a mistake and maybe colliding with one or maybe two others. Not the 5 car pile-ups.
From what I saw, it worked great and we'll pass on the suggestion to the WCICS races. We were at 10' spacing, and I really don't think we'd want to go any tighter than that.
Thanks for all the help and input everyone!
Josh