VORTEC Nitro - your thoughts?
01-16-2007, 01:27 AM
#46
Greatings Southeners. I'ts good to see others "discussing" about RC on the internet. I cant help but put my 2c in even though I'm no longer down there.
Creating / re-establishing another class.
Would this infact dilute the field even more? Maybe the idea of seperating the A class drivers during the pro tourer heats would be enough to allow the more average drivers get a leg up.
Team event vs individual.
Why not both? Could you run the event as an individual thing whilst still generating points for the clubs on a percentage basis.
Hosting clubs.
I'm seeing both sides of the arguement here. It is not fair financially to have the smaller participating clubs host an event and pulling in all that cash.
Why cant a VORTEC event generate money for Vortec, and only cover costs for the host club. If the idea of vortec is for the interclub relations, and the beterment of the sport in Vic, then surely a club like Lillydale wouldnt mind hosting an event and only covering costs. Vortec would then use monies raised from entries for input into trophies, prizes etc. The hosting club would still be free to fundraise during the events through their canteen etc.
Creating / re-establishing another class.
Would this infact dilute the field even more? Maybe the idea of seperating the A class drivers during the pro tourer heats would be enough to allow the more average drivers get a leg up.
Team event vs individual.
Why not both? Could you run the event as an individual thing whilst still generating points for the clubs on a percentage basis.
Hosting clubs.
I'm seeing both sides of the arguement here. It is not fair financially to have the smaller participating clubs host an event and pulling in all that cash.
Why cant a VORTEC event generate money for Vortec, and only cover costs for the host club. If the idea of vortec is for the interclub relations, and the beterment of the sport in Vic, then surely a club like Lillydale wouldnt mind hosting an event and only covering costs. Vortec would then use monies raised from entries for input into trophies, prizes etc. The hosting club would still be free to fundraise during the events through their canteen etc.
01-16-2007, 01:28 AM
#47
Originally Posted by Sp Racer
Chaps...
First of all, I just need to let it out - the Vortec committee is not a "dictatorship" where we decide and everyone adheres to a plan, we have a common goal which is to keep nitro racing in Victoria alive and to grow the hobby/sport.We ( I ) want to make it better for everyone and am very keen to hear all sides of the fence - we are all racers !
I have seen the decay of Vortec events over the last few years and I feel that we need to get together and device some way of getting more people to these rounds - whether it's a change of format/ class/ food at the event/ DC 's hair style, I really don't care, what I want to see is more people at these events having fun!
The idea of putting up a Vortec thread is to get some more feedback from the guys that actually race - what are they thinking? - what are their ideas?
Quite often we have these Vortec meetings, share a meal, have a stubbie or two, everyone goes home happy , it's all positive stuff then we hear things aren't so rosy - the 6 round scenario comes to mind - everyone ( to the best of my recollection ) thought it was worth a try - now it's no good, OK, we'll change the calendar, no big deal ( KISS principle )
DC - re. the attendees vs race meetings at certain clubs, I think the argument is dead in the water, there is no way around it, our last attempt was to give every club an equal "slice" of the monetary pie, that has since been shot down in flames. Pardon my sarcasm but obviously it's too much of an expense to travel for any more than 1 hour every 2nd month for most racers....i'll leave that one open for comments...and I can get a lot more sarcastic... perhaps we need to re-visit the Idea that you had re. scheduling of rounds on a yearly basis again.
The problem I have, and it's very hard to not upset someone by it....look at this scenario...
I create a club, called Lue's RC, I join Vortec and have my 1 member ( me) race at all the rounds - then next year, I want to have a round at my track ( the car park at my local shopping center) I borrow MPRCCC's transponders, run a crappy event, pay for the trophies and pocket the rest to fund my R/C expenses over the next 12 months....is that fair? - how is that different to the "other" scenarios"
The "seeding" idea (in my opinion) was/ is there for 2 reasons,
Reason#1, to avoid some slower drivers having their race day spoiled by being put into a heat where they are like a fish out of water (and obviously the opposite) and #2 to generate some interest amongst racers - it really is not relevant - particularly in Pro Touring.
Adrian - it must be hot in Bendigo - did you fill your pool? ( re. Kaptn & DC comments)
I see what you say, consider this option -
pro touring "B" class - still the same cars, any engine, 2 speed - but not allowed to run there are the Jovanobrothers, Jesse, and anyone else that can string together a 5 min heat without breaking their car . This allows the guys that want to try pro touring to do so without fear of being in anyone's way and having to perform any sort of butchery on their cars.
An OS 12TZ is more than good enough to get you to the very pointy end of the field anyway - I don't think it's really necessary.
Stock class needs to be addressed - I agree 110% - you cannot create a car specific class - as for pro- stock, well, what you said is the current rules anyway!
My final comment as I put my asbestos jacket and helmet on ....
you cannot create a class to suit every driver - you shouldn't have to re-engineer the car to compete , remember the KISS principle!
Lets keep up these productive arguments and leave the bickering to guys racing at the Summernats!
Lue
First of all, I just need to let it out - the Vortec committee is not a "dictatorship" where we decide and everyone adheres to a plan, we have a common goal which is to keep nitro racing in Victoria alive and to grow the hobby/sport.We ( I ) want to make it better for everyone and am very keen to hear all sides of the fence - we are all racers !
I have seen the decay of Vortec events over the last few years and I feel that we need to get together and device some way of getting more people to these rounds - whether it's a change of format/ class/ food at the event/ DC 's hair style, I really don't care, what I want to see is more people at these events having fun!
The idea of putting up a Vortec thread is to get some more feedback from the guys that actually race - what are they thinking? - what are their ideas?
Quite often we have these Vortec meetings, share a meal, have a stubbie or two, everyone goes home happy , it's all positive stuff then we hear things aren't so rosy - the 6 round scenario comes to mind - everyone ( to the best of my recollection ) thought it was worth a try - now it's no good, OK, we'll change the calendar, no big deal ( KISS principle )
DC - re. the attendees vs race meetings at certain clubs, I think the argument is dead in the water, there is no way around it, our last attempt was to give every club an equal "slice" of the monetary pie, that has since been shot down in flames. Pardon my sarcasm but obviously it's too much of an expense to travel for any more than 1 hour every 2nd month for most racers....i'll leave that one open for comments...and I can get a lot more sarcastic... perhaps we need to re-visit the Idea that you had re. scheduling of rounds on a yearly basis again.
The problem I have, and it's very hard to not upset someone by it....look at this scenario...
I create a club, called Lue's RC, I join Vortec and have my 1 member ( me) race at all the rounds - then next year, I want to have a round at my track ( the car park at my local shopping center) I borrow MPRCCC's transponders, run a crappy event, pay for the trophies and pocket the rest to fund my R/C expenses over the next 12 months....is that fair? - how is that different to the "other" scenarios"
The "seeding" idea (in my opinion) was/ is there for 2 reasons,
Reason#1, to avoid some slower drivers having their race day spoiled by being put into a heat where they are like a fish out of water (and obviously the opposite) and #2 to generate some interest amongst racers - it really is not relevant - particularly in Pro Touring.
Adrian - it must be hot in Bendigo - did you fill your pool? ( re. Kaptn & DC comments)
I see what you say, consider this option -
pro touring "B" class - still the same cars, any engine, 2 speed - but not allowed to run there are the Jovanobrothers, Jesse, and anyone else that can string together a 5 min heat without breaking their car . This allows the guys that want to try pro touring to do so without fear of being in anyone's way and having to perform any sort of butchery on their cars.
An OS 12TZ is more than good enough to get you to the very pointy end of the field anyway - I don't think it's really necessary.
Stock class needs to be addressed - I agree 110% - you cannot create a car specific class - as for pro- stock, well, what you said is the current rules anyway!
My final comment as I put my asbestos jacket and helmet on ....
you cannot create a class to suit every driver - you shouldn't have to re-engineer the car to compete , remember the KISS principle!
Lets keep up these productive arguments and leave the bickering to guys racing at the Summernats!
Lue
All Clubs.
01-16-2007, 02:39 AM
#48
Tech Regular
I will be the first to apologise for all that. Trolling is a great word. There was some trolling along with dribble in regards to things that were dead and buried two years ago. I have said enough, the ideas are up, lets work at worrying about and rejuvenating VORTEC for 2007 and beyond.
01-16-2007, 02:48 AM
#49
Originally Posted by VoneSkip
Gday Craig
Does it have to be though ? When there is only 2 Clubs in Victoria capable of Filling thier Squad ... Therefore other Clubs like us will never have a Snowflakes Chance in Hell Winning the Shield , But it has always been like that with the Points System , And thats through no Fault of our own 85-90 % of our Nitro Members Compete Round after Round at VORTEC ..
As i said in an earlier Post if we ( Bendigo)was worried about Winning the Shield we would never compete because we have no hope anyways , But we enjoy the Racing and Get togethers these Meetings Offer
Does it have to be though ? When there is only 2 Clubs in Victoria capable of Filling thier Squad ... Therefore other Clubs like us will never have a Snowflakes Chance in Hell Winning the Shield , But it has always been like that with the Points System , And thats through no Fault of our own 85-90 % of our Nitro Members Compete Round after Round at VORTEC ..
As i said in an earlier Post if we ( Bendigo)was worried about Winning the Shield we would never compete because we have no hope anyways , But we enjoy the Racing and Get togethers these Meetings Offer
01-16-2007, 02:56 AM
#50
Well here is an Idea i Posted on another Thread RE: The Stock / Pro Stock secnerio , I know most have porberly seen it but thought i would Post here as well
"What we are doing here this Year We have combined our Stock and Pro Stock Classes Calling it "Pullstart" Still using all the VORTEC Specs just running them as 1 Class ...
It would be easy to do it a VORTEC Level as you would Grade the Drivers ( as they are now ) So the Fast/Experienced Guys in Heat 1 then Heat 2 etc etc ... Then the Guys from the Lower Heats that get into the "A" Final obvisouly Drove well on the Day to get there"
You could even have the Finishing Position from the 1st Round be the Grading for the 2nd Round eg You Finish 16th in Round 1 In Round 2 you would be Ranked 6 in the 2nd Heat etc etc ..
As for the Points System for a Club Event , I dont really know what can be done there at this stage ...
And with the Distrubution of Rounds this is always going to Upset some clubs/people ... I do know we here a itching to hold 1
like all the other VORTEC Clubs
Maybe we could set up a Poll online or something ... i dunno
"What we are doing here this Year We have combined our Stock and Pro Stock Classes Calling it "Pullstart" Still using all the VORTEC Specs just running them as 1 Class ...
It would be easy to do it a VORTEC Level as you would Grade the Drivers ( as they are now ) So the Fast/Experienced Guys in Heat 1 then Heat 2 etc etc ... Then the Guys from the Lower Heats that get into the "A" Final obvisouly Drove well on the Day to get there
"You could even have the Finishing Position from the 1st Round be the Grading for the 2nd Round eg You Finish 16th in Round 1 In Round 2 you would be Ranked 6 in the 2nd Heat etc etc ..
As for the Points System for a Club Event , I dont really know what can be done there at this stage ...
And with the Distrubution of Rounds this is always going to Upset some clubs/people ... I do know we here a itching to hold 1
like all the other VORTEC Clubs Maybe we could set up a Poll online or something ... i dunno
01-16-2007, 01:01 PM
#51
Sorry Kapt'n and those guys who think my comments were unfair and not constructive.
- I love the VORTEC ideology (if I can call it that)
- I support it by racing at the events, and was on the committee.
My reasons for leaving the committee were not based on VORTEC, its direction or any of its members, purely personal.
- I have certain opinions about VORTEC which were voiced some time ago, but I don't lie awake at night thinking about them.
- A topic was created called "VORTEC Nitro - Your thoughts'
- As a member of 2 clubs I presented my thoughts, in what i thought, was a fair and reasonable manner, offering my opinion and some suggestions.
- While it was difficult to tell, it does appear Kapt'n has taken exception to my comments and become somewhat defensive. It was not my intention and I do not feel badly towards the Kapt'n at all. I'll take our discussions of line.
To try and add some positive to this post, as suggested by someone earlier, what if we took the money out of it completely. The host club gave all entry fees to VORTEC and only took food profits? I think the current system is part way like this now to cover trophies. (Which I think is a good idea, one of Kapt'ns if i remember correctly)
Also I dont think that the lack of numbers in VORTEC is due to VORTEC itself, just the drop in numbers we have seen across the 'sport' at all clubs. So perhaps we don't need to rejuvenate VORTEC as much as we do the 'sport' as a whole at club level.
Comments ?
DC
- I love the VORTEC ideology (if I can call it that)
- I support it by racing at the events, and was on the committee.
My reasons for leaving the committee were not based on VORTEC, its direction or any of its members, purely personal.
- I have certain opinions about VORTEC which were voiced some time ago, but I don't lie awake at night thinking about them.
- A topic was created called "VORTEC Nitro - Your thoughts'
- As a member of 2 clubs I presented my thoughts, in what i thought, was a fair and reasonable manner, offering my opinion and some suggestions.
- While it was difficult to tell, it does appear Kapt'n has taken exception to my comments and become somewhat defensive. It was not my intention and I do not feel badly towards the Kapt'n at all. I'll take our discussions of line.
To try and add some positive to this post, as suggested by someone earlier, what if we took the money out of it completely. The host club gave all entry fees to VORTEC and only took food profits? I think the current system is part way like this now to cover trophies. (Which I think is a good idea, one of Kapt'ns if i remember correctly)
Also I dont think that the lack of numbers in VORTEC is due to VORTEC itself, just the drop in numbers we have seen across the 'sport' at all clubs. So perhaps we don't need to rejuvenate VORTEC as much as we do the 'sport' as a whole at club level.
Comments ?
DC
01-16-2007, 01:08 PM
#52
Also I dont think that the lack of numbers in VORTEC is due to VORTEC itself, just the drop in numbers we have seen across the 'sport' at all clubs. So perhaps we don't need to rejuvenate VORTEC as much as we do the 'sport' as a whole at club level.
Agreed DC - but look at the summernats - look at all the bitching there -they still manage to get 47 entries in open tourer.
Maybe it's a promotional thing?
01-16-2007, 01:59 PM
#53
I think promotion has a lot to do with it, Racing Lines does it well, and maybe being an electric and nitro event (cross entering) helps boost the numbers.
And maybe, just maybe, its a good event to compete in? You'd know that better than I.
As to the bitching, I'll just say look at the content and number of posts in the 2007 Electric Nats topic vs The 2007 Nitro Nats, and the state where most of the whingers come from.
You be the judge.
DC (Fats burns easily, keep your eye out for a fireball )
And maybe, just maybe, its a good event to compete in? You'd know that better than I.
As to the bitching, I'll just say look at the content and number of posts in the 2007 Electric Nats topic vs The 2007 Nitro Nats, and the state where most of the whingers come from.
You be the judge.
DC (Fats burns easily, keep your eye out for a fireball
)
Originally Posted by Sp Racer
Agreed DC - but look at the summernats - look at all the bitching there -they still manage to get 47 entries in open tourer.
Maybe it's a promotional thing?
Maybe it's a promotional thing?
01-16-2007, 02:02 PM
#54
Originally Posted by VoneSkip
Well here is an Idea i Posted on another Thread RE: The Stock / Pro Stock secnerio , I know most have porberly seen it but thought i would Post here as well
"What we are doing here this Year We have combined our Stock and Pro Stock Classes Calling it "Pullstart" Still using all the VORTEC Specs just running them as 1 Class ...
It would be easy to do it a VORTEC Level as you would Grade the Drivers ( as they are now ) So the Fast/Experienced Guys in Heat 1 then Heat 2 etc etc ... Then the Guys from the Lower Heats that get into the "A" Final obvisouly Drove well on the Day to get there"
You could even have the Finishing Position from the 1st Round be the Grading for the 2nd Round eg You Finish 16th in Round 1 In Round 2 you would be Ranked 6 in the 2nd Heat etc etc ..
As for the Points System for a Club Event , I dont really know what can be done there at this stage ...
And with the Distrubution of Rounds this is always going to Upset some clubs/people ... I do know we here a itching to hold 1 like all the other VORTEC Clubs
Maybe we could set up a Poll online or something ... i dunno
"What we are doing here this Year We have combined our Stock and Pro Stock Classes Calling it "Pullstart" Still using all the VORTEC Specs just running them as 1 Class ...
It would be easy to do it a VORTEC Level as you would Grade the Drivers ( as they are now ) So the Fast/Experienced Guys in Heat 1 then Heat 2 etc etc ... Then the Guys from the Lower Heats that get into the "A" Final obvisouly Drove well on the Day to get there
"You could even have the Finishing Position from the 1st Round be the Grading for the 2nd Round eg You Finish 16th in Round 1 In Round 2 you would be Ranked 6 in the 2nd Heat etc etc ..
As for the Points System for a Club Event , I dont really know what can be done there at this stage ...
And with the Distrubution of Rounds this is always going to Upset some clubs/people ... I do know we here a itching to hold 1
like all the other VORTEC Clubs Maybe we could set up a Poll online or something ... i dunno
01-16-2007, 09:04 PM
#57
Originally Posted by turtle
The you would prob end up with all the 'stock' drivers (rubber tyres, limitted mods) in the 2nd heat and all the 'pro stock' drivers (foams, heaps of hop-ups) in the first?
I'm not having a go, just a little unsure of how it would work.
I'm not having a go, just a little unsure of how it would work.
... I cant see how it wouldnt work ? Every Car in Class will be running under the Pro Stock Ruling anyways , Sure there would still be Guys running Stock Cars anyway but if you look at last years results a few of the Stock Drivers (at some Rounds ) would of been very well Placed in the Pro Stock Field anyway ( Going on Times )
Its just that the Classes are so close now anyways whynot combine them ..
Just my Thoughts
01-16-2007, 09:08 PM
#58
Originally Posted by OZDC
I think promotion has a lot to do with it, Racing Lines does it well, and maybe being an electric and nitro event (cross entering) helps boost the numbers.
I recon its a Great Idea on what i have seen ..
We will be running the same Meeting again this August as well
01-16-2007, 09:14 PM
#59
Originally Posted by VoneSkip
I know what ya saying ...
I cant see how it wouldnt work ? Every Car in Class will be running under the Pro Stock Ruling anyways , Sure there would still be Guys running Stock Cars anyway but if you look at last years results a few of the Stock Drivers (at some Rounds ) would of been very well Placed in the Pro Stock Field anyway ( Going on Times )
Its just that the Classes are so close now anyways whynot combine them ..
Just my Thoughts
... I cant see how it wouldnt work ? Every Car in Class will be running under the Pro Stock Ruling anyways , Sure there would still be Guys running Stock Cars anyway but if you look at last years results a few of the Stock Drivers (at some Rounds ) would of been very well Placed in the Pro Stock Field anyway ( Going on Times )
Its just that the Classes are so close now anyways whynot combine them ..
Just my Thoughts
I'm all for combining then for your club days. Most of the 'rubber tyre' guys probably wouldn't budge at throwing a set of foams on.
As far as a VORTEC suggestion, there really needs to be a class between pro-stock and pro-tourer. At the moment once you are established in pro-stock, you really have no where to go unless you got lots of $$$ or a sponsor(s) for pro-tourer (to be competitive anyway)
01-16-2007, 11:07 PM
#60
Most of the 'rubber tyre' guys probably wouldn't budge at throwing a set of foams on.
As far as a VORTEC suggestion, there really needs to be a class between pro-stock and pro-tourer. At the moment once you are established in pro-stock, you really have no where to go unless you got lots of $$$ or a sponsor(s) for pro-tourer (to be competitive anyway)
You need to go back to when the original Vortec rules were written...
It was at a time when the only car available was the Kyosho spider, this car came out with a single speed gearbox and was "the" car everyone had.
The upgrade route was very easy, start off in "STOCK" ( single speed) learn how to drive, bang on the 2 speed, sway bars and you get "PRO STOCK", later, as your skills allowed you bought yourself a novarossi, some foam tyres, you pulled the 2 speed off and ran in "TOURING" and ultimately put your 2 speed box back in and raced in "PRO TOURING" ....easy yeah? - same car, 4 classes....
Now, 7 or 8 years later, we have cars which have been designed and are "dedicated" to certain classes.
When a racer now goes into a hobby shop, he makes a decision - he either takes the pull start route, or the bump start route ( pro stock or pro touring )
There are very few cars that can accept both pull start and bump start - Kyosho FW05, Associated NTC3 are the 2 exceptions I can think of.
So for all those that have bought a Kyosho VoneS3 ( the most common car at the moment) as an example, the swapping or upgrading between classes is simply not possible, and thus the outlay has to be made for that next step. This outlay obviously (unfortunately) involves a new car.
unless you got lots of $$$ or a sponsor(s) for pro-tourer (to be competitive anyway)
Lue
(good luck at Fairy Meadow)