Solution for the stock class problems
02-09-2010, 02:30 PM
#391
Tech Master
iTrader: (47)
Don't you think the manufacturers would figure out how to be profitable in light of this rule? As mentioned. Castle Creations has an ESC out that is VERY comparable to the Tekin. It retails at $149.95. So, why do the other manufacturers need to ask $270, $279.95 or even $400 or more for thier comparable products, especially when they know full well that the street price (in most cases thier imposed minimum advertised price) is well below that? Perhaps one should ask why these manufacturers feel the need to place bogus retail price points on these products to begin with.
Mamba Max PRO MSRP: $149.95, Street price: $129.95 - ~13% discount from retail.
Tekin RS MSRP: $270.00, Street price: $169.95- ~37% discount from retail.
It looks to me like there would be room for the Tekins to fit within the confines of such a rule. The $149.95 price point was only a suggestion as well. The rule could just as easily be set at $99, $179 or $199.
02-09-2010, 02:53 PM
#392
Please....ARGUE me about what can go wrong about the following system?
What I don't understand is....why there is a LIMIT? Ban? or tell ppl you cannot do this and cannot do that..? Why wasting all these time and effort?
Why there is a CAP? Why telling TEKIN you cannot develope the V206 software or tell LRP you cannot do the SXX Stock Spec II? Why ppl has V203 cannot use that simply because it is TOO FAST compare to the other brand that is not as fast as V203?
There should be only 3 classes....MOD (13.5 and faster) Stock (17.5 motors only) and NOVICE (21.5 motor only). SPEC class (spec speedo and spec motor like 25.5 or 21.5...varies by series and organization and clubs).
What is wrong with buying the $179.99 speedo with free software upgrade? Please don't tell me we need to keep the cost LOW so more ppl can race. This is NOTa cheap hobby....everyone know upfront and they spend what they can afford. If they do realized that they cannot compete and no longer be able to spend, they should quit. Yes, it is racing, any kind of racing in this world involve spending money, alots of money....
I really don't like the term "CHEATER" here because someone is using the latest the greatest software that as long as you have money, you can get it "technology". This is year 2010...we do NOT want to go back to year 2000 when ppl can do the "SPECIAL MAGIC TOUCH" on the brushed motor that can boost the extra 10,000 rpm or extra VOLTAGE...there are NO CHEATER involve with the speedo mfr. They are only there to make their products better. If that is the SPEEDO that get the winning ticket, we MUST buy that...or be the 2nd, or 3rd. That is Racing....is always like that.
About the "COST" adjustment...you are wasting your time, 1st you have to convince ROAR, then you have to tell each MFR to lower their cost, then you have to enforce each TRACK to TECH these speedo.....when it is said and done, electric RC car should not required any batteries to power...I think.
I know some parent will spend $50 to buy the "BIBLE" of the Pinewood Racing Derby just so their kids can have the advantage over the others that cannot afford $50....isn't that FAIR? Absolutely...free country.
What I don't understand is....why there is a LIMIT? Ban? or tell ppl you cannot do this and cannot do that..? Why wasting all these time and effort?
Why there is a CAP? Why telling TEKIN you cannot develope the V206 software or tell LRP you cannot do the SXX Stock Spec II? Why ppl has V203 cannot use that simply because it is TOO FAST compare to the other brand that is not as fast as V203?
There should be only 3 classes....MOD (13.5 and faster) Stock (17.5 motors only) and NOVICE (21.5 motor only). SPEC class (spec speedo and spec motor like 25.5 or 21.5...varies by series and organization and clubs).
What is wrong with buying the $179.99 speedo with free software upgrade? Please don't tell me we need to keep the cost LOW so more ppl can race. This is NOTa cheap hobby....everyone know upfront and they spend what they can afford. If they do realized that they cannot compete and no longer be able to spend, they should quit. Yes, it is racing, any kind of racing in this world involve spending money, alots of money....
I really don't like the term "CHEATER" here because someone is using the latest the greatest software that as long as you have money, you can get it "technology". This is year 2010...we do NOT want to go back to year 2000 when ppl can do the "SPECIAL MAGIC TOUCH" on the brushed motor that can boost the extra 10,000 rpm or extra VOLTAGE...there are NO CHEATER involve with the speedo mfr. They are only there to make their products better. If that is the SPEEDO that get the winning ticket, we MUST buy that...or be the 2nd, or 3rd. That is Racing....is always like that.
About the "COST" adjustment...you are wasting your time, 1st you have to convince ROAR, then you have to tell each MFR to lower their cost, then you have to enforce each TRACK to TECH these speedo.....when it is said and done, electric RC car should not required any batteries to power...I think.
I know some parent will spend $50 to buy the "BIBLE" of the Pinewood Racing Derby just so their kids can have the advantage over the others that cannot afford $50....isn't that FAIR? Absolutely...free country.
I do think it is reasonable to put limits on the entry class... We already have motor limits to separate the group why not put a cap on Speedo's also just for Stock IMO.. There has to be a reasonable entry point in sedan onroad... As for exposure, A lot of people already know about R/C but when most of them see the equipment used at the lowest level of sedan (Stock) they all think it's crazy. This is the reaction even from some racers who have been out of racing for 10 yrs... Like I said you can't just changing to higher winds to redefine stock. As it it the higher winds are more expensive and the slower the class gets the more tech is needed to get the speed back... Putting tech cap on Stock will just run up budgets out of control....
02-09-2010, 03:00 PM
#393
I believe that rookies are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the rookies' laughter remind us how we used to be
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the rookies' laughter remind us how we used to be
02-09-2010, 03:08 PM
#394
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
So let me ask you this: Will people quit racing 17.5 or 21.5 classes if there were a dollar limit imposed on the ESC?
Don't you think the manufacturers would figure out how to be profitable in light of this rule? As mentioned. Castle Creations has an ESC out that is VERY comparable to the Tekin. It retails at $149.95. So, why do the other manufacturers need to ask $270, $279.95 or even $400 or more for thier comparable products, especially when they know full well that the street price (in most cases thier imposed minimum advertised price) is well below that? Perhaps one should ask why these manufacturers feel the need to place bogus retail price points on these products to begin with.
Mamba Max PRO MSRP: $149.95, Street price: $129.95 - ~13% discount from retail.
Tekin RS MSRP: $270.00, Street price: $169.95- ~37% discount from retail.
It looks to me like there would be room for the Tekins to fit within the confines of such a rule. The $149.95 price point was only a suggestion as well. The rule could just as easily be set at $99, $179 or $199.
Don't you think the manufacturers would figure out how to be profitable in light of this rule? As mentioned. Castle Creations has an ESC out that is VERY comparable to the Tekin. It retails at $149.95. So, why do the other manufacturers need to ask $270, $279.95 or even $400 or more for thier comparable products, especially when they know full well that the street price (in most cases thier imposed minimum advertised price) is well below that? Perhaps one should ask why these manufacturers feel the need to place bogus retail price points on these products to begin with.
Mamba Max PRO MSRP: $149.95, Street price: $129.95 - ~13% discount from retail.
Tekin RS MSRP: $270.00, Street price: $169.95- ~37% discount from retail.
It looks to me like there would be room for the Tekins to fit within the confines of such a rule. The $149.95 price point was only a suggestion as well. The rule could just as easily be set at $99, $179 or $199.
02-09-2010, 03:33 PM
#395
I do think it is reasonable to put limits on the entry class... We already have motor limits to separate the group why not put a cap on Speedo's also just for Stock IMO.. There has to be a reasonable entry point in sedan onroad... As for exposure, A lot of people already know about R/C but when most of them see the equipment used at the lowest level of sedan (Stock) they all think it's crazy. This is the reaction even from some racers who have been out of racing for 10 yrs... Like I said you can't just changing to higher winds to redefine stock. As it it the higher winds are more expensive and the slower the class gets the more tech is needed to get the speed back... Putting tech cap on Stock will just run up budgets out of control....
To make STOCK racing limited to any 17.5 turn is very much enough say. Most ppl believing Tekin speedo with their software and I myself believing the Speed Passion software and we will all figure out whos the best at the track. And look at the future STOCK class with no cap or no software ban....17.5 motor is pretty much the same, like 2-3 choices only and they are not like night and day different on performance. Chassis are all open, price are not important...setup and driving skill is. Lipo batteries...again, you paid what you get and that need to be update constantly no matter how. Speedo...$180 for something that last for a year or so I think is very reasonable. NOT to mention they are updatable.
For me...I think that is the year 2010 STOCK RACING. We are confusing right now about the 17.5 is because of the 13.5. And somehow someone named them SUPER STOCK at the beginning and thats why we think 17.5 is too fast because 13.5 is NOT fast enough.
I just don't see 17.5 can compete with 13.5 on a 200 foot long track...NOT even close. So, the solution is...get rid of 13.5, move them to the MOD level. Eliminated this so called "super stock" and leaving the STOCK to something we all agree on. Hey, if ppl thing 21.5 should be stock, that is fine by me...
Remember the 10.5 suppose to be 19T equal....guess where is the 10.5 class right now...? I think we should do the same for the 13.5 and call out the 17.5 THE STOCK.
About new ppl get scare away from the equipment that STOCK racer has...to be honest, I don't see why the equipment in 2010 is any worst then the year before....? Brushless speedo with monthly update....brushless motor required ZERO work. Lipo batteries can charge and play 5-7 per day without any work involve. RC car cost around $250 with all the setup feature that a $500 RC car has..........SPEC racing like USVTA or RCGT are more then popular then before.
We just dont' want to keep creating CLASSES or banning things that suppose to help the hobby. All the talking should be done at the TRACK or at the PARKING LOT....
02-09-2010, 03:45 PM
#396
I just want to know....how LOW is too LOW? Or, how SLOW is too SLOW?
To make STOCK racing limited to any 17.5 turn is very much enough say. Most ppl believing Tekin speedo with their software and I myself believing the Speed Passion software and we will all figure out whos the best at the track. And look at the future STOCK class with no cap or no software ban....17.5 motor is pretty much the same, like 2-3 choices only and they are not like night and day different on performance. Chassis are all open, price are not important...setup and driving skill is. Lipo batteries...again, you paid what you get and that need to be update constantly no matter how. Speedo...$180 for something that last for a year or so I think is very reasonable. NOT to mention they are updatable.
For me...I think that is the year 2010 STOCK RACING. We are confusing right now about the 17.5 is because of the 13.5. And somehow someone named them SUPER STOCK at the beginning and thats why we think 17.5 is too fast because 13.5 is NOT fast enough.
I just don't see 17.5 can compete with 13.5 on a 200 foot long track...NOT even close. So, the solution is...get rid of 13.5, move them to the MOD level. Eliminated this so called "super stock" and leaving the STOCK to something we all agree on. Hey, if ppl thing 21.5 should be stock, that is fine by me...
Remember the 10.5 suppose to be 19T equal....guess where is the 10.5 class right now...? I think we should do the same for the 13.5 and call out the 17.5 THE STOCK.
About new ppl get scare away from the equipment that STOCK racer has...to be honest, I don't see why the equipment in 2010 is any worst then the year before....? Brushless speedo with monthly update....brushless motor required ZERO work. Lipo batteries can charge and play 5-7 per day without any work involve. RC car cost around $250 with all the setup feature that a $500 RC car has..........SPEC racing like USVTA or RCGT are more then popular then before.
We just dont' want to keep creating CLASSES or banning things that suppose to help the hobby. All the talking should be done at the TRACK or at the PARKING LOT....
To make STOCK racing limited to any 17.5 turn is very much enough say. Most ppl believing Tekin speedo with their software and I myself believing the Speed Passion software and we will all figure out whos the best at the track. And look at the future STOCK class with no cap or no software ban....17.5 motor is pretty much the same, like 2-3 choices only and they are not like night and day different on performance. Chassis are all open, price are not important...setup and driving skill is. Lipo batteries...again, you paid what you get and that need to be update constantly no matter how. Speedo...$180 for something that last for a year or so I think is very reasonable. NOT to mention they are updatable.
For me...I think that is the year 2010 STOCK RACING. We are confusing right now about the 17.5 is because of the 13.5. And somehow someone named them SUPER STOCK at the beginning and thats why we think 17.5 is too fast because 13.5 is NOT fast enough.
I just don't see 17.5 can compete with 13.5 on a 200 foot long track...NOT even close. So, the solution is...get rid of 13.5, move them to the MOD level. Eliminated this so called "super stock" and leaving the STOCK to something we all agree on. Hey, if ppl thing 21.5 should be stock, that is fine by me...
Remember the 10.5 suppose to be 19T equal....guess where is the 10.5 class right now...? I think we should do the same for the 13.5 and call out the 17.5 THE STOCK.
About new ppl get scare away from the equipment that STOCK racer has...to be honest, I don't see why the equipment in 2010 is any worst then the year before....? Brushless speedo with monthly update....brushless motor required ZERO work. Lipo batteries can charge and play 5-7 per day without any work involve. RC car cost around $250 with all the setup feature that a $500 RC car has..........SPEC racing like USVTA or RCGT are more then popular then before.
We just dont' want to keep creating CLASSES or banning things that suppose to help the hobby. All the talking should be done at the TRACK or at the PARKING LOT....
02-09-2010, 04:07 PM
#397
17.5 was created 2 years ago for a reason... 13.5 which was the current stock class was definately too fast once everyone figured out how to gear the motors..... Well, can you honestly say 17.5 is slower than the 13.5 of two years ago... I don't want to re arrange all the motor classes again. I'm just saying It is obvious that the Smarter thing to do for Stock spec is now to include Speedo in the restrictions, not just the motor wind... They can also throw 13.5 in mod to make it more simple..... 2- classes with a big separation in speed and TECH!
02-09-2010, 04:54 PM
#398
02-09-2010, 04:58 PM
#399
02-09-2010, 04:59 PM
#400
oh crap, I see Hebiki
02-09-2010, 05:05 PM
#402
02-09-2010, 06:35 PM
#404
Tech Master
On road isn't doomed, touring is! I got into touring on-road, but with all the hoop-la (great word) it's getting kind of tiring. Maybe time to look at pan cars.
The world doesn't end with touring cars. Unless they all turn on us and attack us I guess.
That would suck.
The world doesn't end with touring cars. Unless they all turn on us and attack us I guess.
That would suck.
02-09-2010, 06:52 PM
#405
Francis I know you are for restricting speed control software. And to be honest, if things went that way I'd wouldn't fuss too much. But I'd personally would much rather run 21.5 with timing advance than 17.5 w/no timing. Reason: Mainly I like to tune my motors/ESC. I did in the brushed days and I do now. Advances in technology will happen with motors too. Trinity CO27's were faster or better than P2K's...right? Also look at brushed motor can/end bell and brush design...Team Checkpoint and Orion's cans and brushes were definitely advances in technology. So if we limit ESC advances you will see more advances in motors. We probably will anyway (See Speed Passion Citrix motors). I see adjusting to technology being easier than trying to limit or stop it.