jelayne

iTrader: (4)

Dredd if those statements are true of the Serpent why then the different versions of 720, from their site they also look like upgrades/options that were added to annually.

Or are you just referring to the 733(new) ?

Riketsu

iTrader: (34)

Serpent will always release new upgrades for user to buy. Whether it is with the 733 or the Cobra 811.

You can choose whether to buy them or not. Atleast, they usually include those upgrades in a new kit at the end of the year.


Xray does a similar thing. They offer a type of car for everyone, whether its a full bling like the WCE/EC, standard car like the 2010 car or a budget car like a NT1R. Its their way of marketing, can't blame them.

When you go to buy a real car, they have 3-4 types of the same car with different features at different prices, why R/C has to be different?


Now with Kyosho, they always leave room for improvement, leave room for more optionals in a "Special" edition. But they are similar to Xray, they sometimes come out with a WCE that costs more than the original just because they throw in all possible upgrades.

I'd like to see a full blown car like the LAB C01 with just optionals for different setup tuning. I said I like to see, I still believe the Xray NT1 is still the best choice out there .

Brian Bosley

iTrader: (13)

Riketsu is right about Xray's current method, they do release the "new" pro level kit first or equal with a sportsman kit. Originally (because I got burned by this right before nationals so I wanted the best the car could be) the first car had dogbones with tons of heavy stuff and then offered lightweight 1st, 2nd and whatever other number of parts at crazy prices. I don't think anything was less than $35 each, even the 4 cvds cost you $140 if you wanted them although I think only front cvds are important because the dogbones always popped out if you nicked the inside of a corner at full lock.

Serpent does offer some upgrades, certainly optional in most cases. In 8th scale the 966 commonly uses the brass plates and rear chassis xbrace but thats about it besides springs/sway bars.

Kyosho has a history, the evo cars are the new evolution and then the WC cars have the pro level parts a couple months later. Here is the kyosho sites comparison between the cars and it basically fits from what I remember over the past. I'm sure the guys designing this car don't read this forum but hopefully they know that they don't have the worlds winning car again to ride on (although the factory didn't win the worlds and the car wasn't all kyosho) this time around and that they need to release something proper if they want to keep up with Serpent and Xray or even Mugen if they decide to release something. Some how mugen has kept the mtx4 alive for perhaps longer than the RRR.

< WC Team Edition Special Features >
●Universal joints on front and rear (VZW219, VSW006)
●φ9mm hardened ball screws
●Rear adjustable stabilizer
●Adjustable rod (for rear adjustable stabilizer)
●Muffler stay holder (Aluminum)
●Aluminum drive washer
●SP drive belt (front, middle, rear)
●FRP battery plate
●FRP middle plate
●Hollow middle shaft
●Aluminum one-piece engine mount
●Titanium coated shock shafts (30mm)
●Lightweight 1st gear housing
●Sealed bearing 6x10x3mm (for servo saver)

< Evo.2 Special Features >
●Duralumin 7075 T6 main chassis
●New Upper Plate
●Adjustable type servo saver from EVOLVA M3
●2-speed spur gear with 2-speed clutch shoe and steel ring from EVOLVA M3
●New shape 3.0mm rear shock stay
●2D Clutch & Grey Shoes
●Hex head screws
●Zero offset wheels
●KYOSHO Original hexagon screw driver (2.0mm)

Dredd

Basically I am looking at a new car for myself. I noticed that the 733 really doesn't have much to upgrade. Xray and Kyosho both have lightweight flywheel, lightweight bell housing, lightweight 2 speed shaft, alum wheel hubs, alum brake arm etc. There are many parts I consider good or necessary upgrades, adds to the final cost for me. On the 733 and Shepard V10 since I'm looking at new cars, I see very few aftermarket parts of the same type. That is I don't see lightweight this or that, no need to buy new hubs to have aluminum etc. It's ok, I know how retail works. You make most money on parts and misc hardware. I just think having so many revisions of the "same" car is a little much...always seems like your car will be old too soon. To my eyes and I will admit I don't know the history of every manufacturer, it seems like Serpent releases a car that comes with many of the parts you'd buy to have what can be called a "pro" car. I can understand a WCE version if a team driver won, and offer it with most of the parts they used to win. I simply don't see the need to release a basic car and ask that the consumer purchase another $200+ worth of options to have the "pro" or "team" version. I hope you understand my meaning. It's not a knock on any manufacturer's business model. I've enjoyed my RRR for a long time. I have simply been keeping my eye on new cars because I want to build something new, maybe sell this to my neighbor to get him interested or keep it for fun I dunno. I have been eyeing various parts options across manufacturers and what I see is certain features that I sort of expect to have on my car because I feel it helps, don't come in the box. Now I don't know whether the Serpent flywheel or bell housing could be considered lightweight or not, but I have not seen one labeled as such offered separately for the 733. Sorry for any misunderstanding or confusion, I was unable to express my thoughts clearly it seems. I am willing to buy the options of course, because since I find them a good upgrade I will have to spend the money to have them. I still haven't decided what I'm building yet.

P.S. I know Mugen is releasing a new car in the future (next year?) but the MTX4 has been around quite some time.

Brian Bosley

iTrader: (13)

Hopefully kyosho will release some info, that picture is too vague at the moment.

nitrodude

iTrader: (8)

That is because all the parts I highlighted on your post already come with the 733, the stock parts are already lightweight, no need to spend on aftermarket. The only lightweight parts that I have on my 733 are the CSO 2spd shaft, and a titanium midshaft, and thats all you need. As far as the 720, it was always the same car, all they did was add aftermarket parts and keep the same price on it, so its value went up.

Scott Fisher

iTrader: (28)

Actually the Shimo car and WC cars come with many of the lightened/hop-up parts already. The original RRR and the EVO 2 came with less of the light stuff but still some.

Hopefully the first release of the new 1/10th is a full race spec car with all the goodies. If not, YBSLOW will make what we need to make what will probably be a good car even better.

Dredd

That's good then. That simply illustrates what I thought much better. Like I said, I never saw any options labeled as lightweight so I figured it came more complete which might be labeling it improperly.

Dredd

I'm sure it will be good, I'm actually still undecided as to what I'll be getting and will of course be looking for further info about this potential new car from Kyosho.

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

IMHO the new R4 will not be a revolutionary step,i believe the upper deck will be lowered so it will take away the excessive stiffness the current one provides,the chassis could be the same EVO2.
Regarding upgrades i don't see them as upgrades,they're listed as option parts,it's a compromise game here,i.e. the lightweight clutch bell is light indeed but it let debris and dust get in compromising shoe durability.On the other hand,the hollow shafts should be stock,simple things like that should be stock.
Xray makes the NT1R entry-level kit,the non-WCE is just that,entry-level and not everybody can afford the WCE,but in MP9 tradition the full spec machine should arrive first!

TomB

iTrader: (10)

i agree that it would be great for kyosho to release a pro car from day one, but in reality no manufacturer does this. even the mtx4 came witrh dogbones and plastic wheel hexes.

so did the nt1.

the serpent was released spec'd out (in my opinion) because it was serpent's last chance to remain in the tourer market. With a series of low selling cars in the past and the emergence of kyosho mugen as the true kings of tourer (and recently xray) as the three dominant brands of tourer serpent NEEDED a bang for buck car that performed otherwise they would have been toast in the tourer market.

what the new kyosho needs is good quality long lasting parts from the get go. i've owned a V1R before and what has always held me of the later edition v1's are the low wear life of it's parts. the car is great but the pins on the cvd/or dog bones wear out quickly, the plastic got excessive wear very quickly, and it required a lot of upgrades (if you bought a standard early edition kit).

mugen's mtx4 had similar low spec'd options but the standar parts were always strong and you were able to perform in high competition with it knowing that it would not wear out quickly. Mugen's plastic is also one of the best wearing and slop free plastic in the market (xray is up there with it also).

Kyosho should use the WC/shimo spec plastic in the r4, have a good quality brake disc and pads and SERIOUSLY up the quality of it's steel parts that's all it needs. the rest is bling that can be upgraded later at users discretion.

afm

IMHO, the most important item that the new R4 should have is smaller differentials, like the ones on the Xray and capricorn, and a hollow shafts...in other words "reduced rotation mass", and a lower upper deck and fuel tank

AFM

DJ_Shakespear

Kyosho DEFINITELY needs to make smaller diffs, they are just HUGE!! I mean, with the Evo2, yes it can be run with a diff but it requires some fiddling to get it to not hit the servo saver and steering rod-ends. As LiL_JaSoN did, he used a Capricorn/XRay (I think) diff and its much smaller and lighter - basically a total drop-in part.
If the R4 comes completely new and revised, I'd only get it if I can take a look at it myself and see how it's all put together, otherwise the next car I get will most likely be XRay, Capricorn or Shephard.
I still love Kyosho, but they really need to get stuff down right the first time.

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

I'm considering the idea of dropping a capricorn diff in the RRR,it's a straight fit or need some work?TIA
Sometime ago,the dark forces of capricorn were tempting me with the C01,i'll wait till the R4 comes out and start kicking butt then the capricorn will be cheaper
And Kyosho,about the rear universals digging the diff outdrives don't forget that...

LiL_JaSoN

iTrader: (6)

im using the serpent diff in the rear.. havent really played with it in a long time since i brought a electric offroad buggy..