R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-05-2010, 05:39 AM   #16
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 373
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Dredd if those statements are true of the Serpent why then the different versions of 720, from their site they also look like upgrades/options that were added to annually.

Or are you just referring to the 733(new) ?
jelayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 06:27 AM   #17
Tech Elite
 
Riketsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 2,514
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Riketsu
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jelayne View Post
Dredd if those statements are true of the Serpent why then the different versions of 720, from their site they also look like upgrades/options that were added to annually.

Or are you just referring to the 733(new) ?
Serpent will always release new upgrades for user to buy. Whether it is with the 733 or the Cobra 811.

You can choose whether to buy them or not. Atleast, they usually include those upgrades in a new kit at the end of the year.


Xray does a similar thing. They offer a type of car for everyone, whether its a full bling like the WCE/EC, standard car like the 2010 car or a budget car like a NT1R. Its their way of marketing, can't blame them.

When you go to buy a real car, they have 3-4 types of the same car with different features at different prices, why R/C has to be different?


Now with Kyosho, they always leave room for improvement, leave room for more optionals in a "Special" edition. But they are similar to Xray, they sometimes come out with a WCE that costs more than the original just because they throw in all possible upgrades.

I'd like to see a full blown car like the LAB C01 with just optionals for different setup tuning. I said I like to see, I still believe the Xray NT1 is still the best choice out there .
__________________
eBay user id: riketsukirai
Riketsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 07:42 AM   #18
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,276
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Riketsu is right about Xray's current method, they do release the "new" pro level kit first or equal with a sportsman kit. Originally (because I got burned by this right before nationals so I wanted the best the car could be) the first car had dogbones with tons of heavy stuff and then offered lightweight 1st, 2nd and whatever other number of parts at crazy prices. I don't think anything was less than $35 each, even the 4 cvds cost you $140 if you wanted them although I think only front cvds are important because the dogbones always popped out if you nicked the inside of a corner at full lock.

Serpent does offer some upgrades, certainly optional in most cases. In 8th scale the 966 commonly uses the brass plates and rear chassis xbrace but thats about it besides springs/sway bars.

Kyosho has a history, the evo cars are the new evolution and then the WC cars have the pro level parts a couple months later. Here is the kyosho sites comparison between the cars and it basically fits from what I remember over the past. I'm sure the guys designing this car don't read this forum but hopefully they know that they don't have the worlds winning car again to ride on (although the factory didn't win the worlds and the car wasn't all kyosho) this time around and that they need to release something proper if they want to keep up with Serpent and Xray or even Mugen if they decide to release something. Some how mugen has kept the mtx4 alive for perhaps longer than the RRR.

< WC Team Edition Special Features >
●Universal joints on front and rear (VZW219, VSW006)
●φ9mm hardened ball screws
●Rear adjustable stabilizer
●Adjustable rod (for rear adjustable stabilizer)
●Muffler stay holder (Aluminum)
●Aluminum drive washer
●SP drive belt (front, middle, rear)
●FRP battery plate
●FRP middle plate
●Hollow middle shaft
●Aluminum one-piece engine mount
●Titanium coated shock shafts (30mm)
●Lightweight 1st gear housing
●Sealed bearing 6x10x3mm (for servo saver)

< Evo.2 Special Features >
●Duralumin 7075 T6 main chassis
●New Upper Plate
●Adjustable type servo saver from EVOLVA M3
●2-speed spur gear with 2-speed clutch shoe and steel ring from EVOLVA M3
●New shape 3.0mm rear shock stay
●2D Clutch & Grey Shoes
●Hex head screws
●Zero offset wheels
●KYOSHO Original hexagon screw driver (2.0mm)
__________________
Support those that support us

https://ActivRC.com http://TeamPowersUSA.net https://www.1upracing.com/ http://TeamAssociated.com
Brian Bosley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 02:14 PM   #19
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 660
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jelayne View Post
Dredd if those statements are true of the Serpent why then the different versions of 720, from their site they also look like upgrades/options that were added to annually.

Or are you just referring to the 733(new) ?
Basically I am looking at a new car for myself. I noticed that the 733 really doesn't have much to upgrade. Xray and Kyosho both have lightweight flywheel, lightweight bell housing, lightweight 2 speed shaft, alum wheel hubs, alum brake arm etc. There are many parts I consider good or necessary upgrades, adds to the final cost for me. On the 733 and Shepard V10 since I'm looking at new cars, I see very few aftermarket parts of the same type. That is I don't see lightweight this or that, no need to buy new hubs to have aluminum etc. It's ok, I know how retail works. You make most money on parts and misc hardware. I just think having so many revisions of the "same" car is a little much...always seems like your car will be old too soon. To my eyes and I will admit I don't know the history of every manufacturer, it seems like Serpent releases a car that comes with many of the parts you'd buy to have what can be called a "pro" car. I can understand a WCE version if a team driver won, and offer it with most of the parts they used to win. I simply don't see the need to release a basic car and ask that the consumer purchase another $200+ worth of options to have the "pro" or "team" version. I hope you understand my meaning. It's not a knock on any manufacturer's business model. I've enjoyed my RRR for a long time. I have simply been keeping my eye on new cars because I want to build something new, maybe sell this to my neighbor to get him interested or keep it for fun I dunno. I have been eyeing various parts options across manufacturers and what I see is certain features that I sort of expect to have on my car because I feel it helps, don't come in the box. Now I don't know whether the Serpent flywheel or bell housing could be considered lightweight or not, but I have not seen one labeled as such offered separately for the 733. Sorry for any misunderstanding or confusion, I was unable to express my thoughts clearly it seems. I am willing to buy the options of course, because since I find them a good upgrade I will have to spend the money to have them. I still haven't decided what I'm building yet.

P.S. I know Mugen is releasing a new car in the future (next year?) but the MTX4 has been around quite some time.
__________________
Kyosho V-One RRR - JP Modified Mugen X12 - GQ Racing Tires - Futaba servos - KO Helios w/Spektrum Pro - Maxy's Fuel
Losi 8ight 2.0 RTR for fun times

Last edited by Dredd; 10-05-2010 at 02:28 PM.
Dredd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 03:40 PM   #20
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,276
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Hopefully kyosho will release some info, that picture is too vague at the moment.
__________________
Support those that support us

https://ActivRC.com http://TeamPowersUSA.net https://www.1upracing.com/ http://TeamAssociated.com
Brian Bosley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 03:55 PM   #21
Tech Champion
 
nitrodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Oxnard, CA
Posts: 5,842
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredd View Post
Basically I am looking at a new car for myself. I noticed that the 733 really doesn't have much to upgrade. Xray and Kyosho both have lightweight flywheel, lightweight bell housing, lightweight 2 speed shaft, alum wheel hubs, alum brake arm etc. There are many parts I consider good or necessary upgrades, adds to the final cost for me. On the 733 and Shepard V10 since I'm looking at new cars, I see very few aftermarket parts of the same type. That is I don't see lightweight this or that, no need to buy new hubs to have aluminum etc. It's ok, I know how retail works. You make most money on parts and misc hardware. I just think having so many revisions of the "same" car is a little much...always seems like your car will be old too soon. To my eyes and I will admit I don't know the history of every manufacturer, it seems like Serpent releases a car that comes with many of the parts you'd buy to have what can be called a "pro" car. I can understand a WCE version if a team driver won, and offer it with most of the parts they used to win. I simply don't see the need to release a basic car and ask that the consumer purchase another $200+ worth of options to have the "pro" or "team" version. I hope you understand my meaning. It's not a knock on any manufacturer's business model. I've enjoyed my RRR for a long time. I have simply been keeping my eye on new cars because I want to build something new, maybe sell this to my neighbor to get him interested or keep it for fun I dunno. I have been eyeing various parts options across manufacturers and what I see is certain features that I sort of expect to have on my car because I feel it helps, don't come in the box. Now I don't know whether the Serpent flywheel or bell housing could be considered lightweight or not, but I have not seen one labeled as such offered separately for the 733. Sorry for any misunderstanding or confusion, I was unable to express my thoughts clearly it seems. I am willing to buy the options of course, because since I find them a good upgrade I will have to spend the money to have them. I still haven't decided what I'm building yet.

P.S. I know Mugen is releasing a new car in the future (next year?) but the MTX4 has been around quite some time.
That is because all the parts I highlighted on your post already come with the 733, the stock parts are already lightweight, no need to spend on aftermarket. The only lightweight parts that I have on my 733 are the CSO 2spd shaft, and a titanium midshaft, and thats all you need. As far as the 720, it was always the same car, all they did was add aftermarket parts and keep the same price on it, so its value went up.
__________________
Steven Muller
AKA El Pibe RUFAST? HAHA!!!
Ronin Speed Parts
nitrodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 07:14 PM   #22
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 4,148
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Scott Fisher
Default

Actually the Shimo car and WC cars come with many of the lightened/hop-up parts already. The original RRR and the EVO 2 came with less of the light stuff but still some.

Hopefully the first release of the new 1/10th is a full race spec car with all the goodies. If not, YBSLOW will make what we need to make what will probably be a good car even better.
__________________
| Capricorn | Ybslow | Proline-Protoform | Johnny Bravo Racing | Desoto Racing | Murnan Modified | Matrix Tires | Powermaster Fuel |
Scott Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 07:17 PM   #23
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 660
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodude View Post
That is because all the parts I highlighted on your post already come with the 733, the stock parts are already lightweight, no need to spend on aftermarket. The only lightweight parts that I have on my 733 are the CSO 2spd shaft, and a titanium midshaft, and thats all you need. As far as the 720, it was always the same car, all they did was add aftermarket parts and keep the same price on it, so its value went up.
That's good then. That simply illustrates what I thought much better. Like I said, I never saw any options labeled as lightweight so I figured it came more complete which might be labeling it improperly.
__________________
Kyosho V-One RRR - JP Modified Mugen X12 - GQ Racing Tires - Futaba servos - KO Helios w/Spektrum Pro - Maxy's Fuel
Losi 8ight 2.0 RTR for fun times
Dredd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 07:18 PM   #24
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 660
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher View Post
Actually the Shimo car and WC cars come with many of the lightened/hop-up parts already. The original RRR and the EVO 2 came with less of the light stuff but still some.

Hopefully the first release of the new 1/10th is a full race spec car with all the goodies. If not, YBSLOW will make what we need to make what will probably be a good car even better.
I'm sure it will be good, I'm actually still undecided as to what I'll be getting and will of course be looking for further info about this potential new car from Kyosho.
__________________
Kyosho V-One RRR - JP Modified Mugen X12 - GQ Racing Tires - Futaba servos - KO Helios w/Spektrum Pro - Maxy's Fuel
Losi 8ight 2.0 RTR for fun times
Dredd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 05:26 AM   #25
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Beneath a rock down by the river. Don't have money for van
Posts: 3,175
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Lightbulb

IMHO the new R4 will not be a revolutionary step,i believe the upper deck will be lowered so it will take away the excessive stiffness the current one provides,the chassis could be the same EVO2.
Regarding upgrades i don't see them as upgrades,they're listed as option parts,it's a compromise game here,i.e. the lightweight clutch bell is light indeed but it let debris and dust get in compromising shoe durability.On the other hand,the hollow shafts should be stock,simple things like that should be stock.
Xray makes the NT1R entry-level kit,the non-WCE is just that,entry-level and not everybody can afford the WCE,but in MP9 tradition the full spec machine should arrive first!
__________________
( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡) https://www.facebook.com/becomeasetupguru/
30Tooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 09:26 PM   #26
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: www.moorebankraceway.com
Posts: 5,119
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

i agree that it would be great for kyosho to release a pro car from day one, but in reality no manufacturer does this. even the mtx4 came witrh dogbones and plastic wheel hexes.

so did the nt1.

the serpent was released spec'd out (in my opinion) because it was serpent's last chance to remain in the tourer market. With a series of low selling cars in the past and the emergence of kyosho mugen as the true kings of tourer (and recently xray) as the three dominant brands of tourer serpent NEEDED a bang for buck car that performed otherwise they would have been toast in the tourer market.

what the new kyosho needs is good quality long lasting parts from the get go. i've owned a V1R before and what has always held me of the later edition v1's are the low wear life of it's parts. the car is great but the pins on the cvd/or dog bones wear out quickly, the plastic got excessive wear very quickly, and it required a lot of upgrades (if you bought a standard early edition kit).

mugen's mtx4 had similar low spec'd options but the standar parts were always strong and you were able to perform in high competition with it knowing that it would not wear out quickly. Mugen's plastic is also one of the best wearing and slop free plastic in the market (xray is up there with it also).

Kyosho should use the WC/shimo spec plastic in the r4, have a good quality brake disc and pads and SERIOUSLY up the quality of it's steel parts that's all it needs. the rest is bling that can be upgraded later at users discretion.
TomB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 08:48 PM   #27
afm
Tech Master
 
afm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: lima-peru
Posts: 1,807
Default

IMHO, the most important item that the new R4 should have is smaller differentials, like the ones on the Xray and capricorn, and a hollow shafts...in other words "reduced rotation mass", and a lower upper deck and fuel tank

AFM
afm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 11:36 PM   #28
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 729
Default

Kyosho DEFINITELY needs to make smaller diffs, they are just HUGE!! I mean, with the Evo2, yes it can be run with a diff but it requires some fiddling to get it to not hit the servo saver and steering rod-ends. As LiL_JaSoN did, he used a Capricorn/XRay (I think) diff and its much smaller and lighter - basically a total drop-in part.
If the R4 comes completely new and revised, I'd only get it if I can take a look at it myself and see how it's all put together, otherwise the next car I get will most likely be XRay, Capricorn or Shephard.
I still love Kyosho, but they really need to get stuff down right the first time.
DJ_Shakespear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 04:10 AM   #29
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Beneath a rock down by the river. Don't have money for van
Posts: 3,175
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I'm considering the idea of dropping a capricorn diff in the RRR,it's a straight fit or need some work?TIA
Sometime ago,the dark forces of capricorn were tempting me with the C01,i'll wait till the R4 comes out and start kicking butt then the capricorn will be cheaper
And Kyosho,about the rear universals digging the diff outdrives don't forget that...
__________________
( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡) https://www.facebook.com/becomeasetupguru/
30Tooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 05:38 AM   #30
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 925
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

im using the serpent diff in the rear.. havent really played with it in a long time since i brought a electric offroad buggy..
__________________
TEAM DURANGO CARBON DEX210 - POWERED BY TEKIN RS GEN2/TEKIN GEN2 17.5
TEAM DURANGO CARBON DEX410 - POWERED BY TEKIN RS PRO/REEDY SONIC 17.5
TEAM ASSOCIATED B5 - POWERED BY TEKIN RS GEN2/TEKIN GEN2 17.5
LiL_JaSoN is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
V-ONE S Thread rhandee Nitro On-Road 4584 07-06-2014 07:19 PM
Kyosho Cup at Kraceway March 24th-26th KissRcRaceway Nitro On-Road 61 08-15-2006 11:27 PM
Kyosho Cup at Kraceway March 24th-26th KissRcRaceway Florida Racing 9 12-29-2005 02:20 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:14 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net