Hot Bodies Cyclone
08-10-2009, 10:44 AM
08-10-2009, 05:17 PM
Very interesting. As my main problem with the kit setup was a rear loose end coming out of corners (and attempting to overtake the front end). I'm still trying different variations on the Hara RROC setup (on a lo-med grip outdoor asphalt track).
Coincidently, going from 4 to 5 could apply to the shock tower or arm position (both make the shock more upright) - which one did you mean ?
? If its the lower arm then there is less leverage, more rear roll, and more rear grip (makes sense). If its the tower, then the shock becomes less progressive and a bit "harder" (dont see how this would give more rear grip, therefore makes less sense to me), OR there is a completely different explanation.
Can you please order the changes from most, to least, sensitive ?? I dont have a feel for which changes have the most effect.
Or is it pretty much in the order that you described.
That is, Rear shock position, Rear pivot block angle, Cut middle deck, Cut top deck
I have been playing with the cut middle deck, but have not heard about the cut top deck change before - interesting. There does not seem much to cut on the top deck, basically the small section centered on the belt tensioner post. If so, what do you do with the belt tensioner post (or can it sit over the "slit") ??
Greatly appreciate your thoughts
Coincidently, going from 4 to 5 could apply to the shock tower or arm position (both make the shock more upright) - which one did you mean ?
? If its the lower arm then there is less leverage, more rear roll, and more rear grip (makes sense). If its the tower, then the shock becomes less progressive and a bit "harder" (dont see how this would give more rear grip, therefore makes less sense to me), OR there is a completely different explanation.Can you please order the changes from most, to least, sensitive ?
? I dont have a feel for which changes have the most effect.Or is it pretty much in the order that you described.
That is, Rear shock position, Rear pivot block angle, Cut middle deck, Cut top deck
I have been playing with the cut middle deck, but have not heard about the cut top deck change before - interesting. There does not seem much to cut on the top deck, basically the small section centered on the belt tensioner post. If so, what do you do with the belt tensioner post (or can it sit over the "slit") ?
?Greatly appreciate your thoughts
Hi Cosmo,
Sorry about my vagueness
I was reffering to position 5 on the rear shocktower, Im not sure I can totally explain why this works but it definately gave more rear traction on corner exit. Myself and one of my team mates both made the change and agreed on the outcome (both running 5 cell mod). I almost always run position 3 on the rear wishbones by the way
.As for the order of changes, I felt the rear shock position made the biggest difference as it worked specificly on improving the rear traction corner exit in my opinion. Next up was the toe block, this gave a little more rear end stability all round.
As for the flex, I ran the car standard to begin with, but I really felt it was too stiff all round. I cut the rear deck and it did improve rear traction, but took away some steering. I then cut the front deck which brought back the steering.
On my std car I have cut a line down the centre of the TC spec topdeck from the very back all the way to the cutout behind the steering post mount. This worked for me as I dont run a belt tensioner, I have my belts relatively tight for modified anyway so theres really no need. If your running a spec class and want to run the belts looser then Im not entirely sure how you would do it. I seem to recall seeing a friend having cut it as I have, but he drilled a new hole for the tensioner off to the right hand side and used extra spacers to move the bearings back above the belt. If I've not described this well enough I can post some pictures for you tomorrow, just let me know.
If you can try the topdeck and middle deck as I've described, the flex is very similar to the 1 piece topdeck the HPI UK team are running now. (similar flex to how all the teams have their cars, 416, 009 etc)
Oh and one more thing that could help with rear traction is the rear diff. It needs to feel smooth but have no slip whatsoever. I rebuild mine every 2 runs at a serious meeting so its perfect, but once every 5-6 runs tends to be ok at club meetings. There is also a little adjustment past the point at which it has stopped slipping. I find a diff with a looser action tends to make the car want to carry on turning when you exit a corner and a diff with a tighter action tends to make the car drive smoother out of the corners (more rear traction).
Hope this helps, let me know if you want me to elaborate on anything.
Cheers,
Phil.
Last edited by Phil C; 08-12-2009 at 05:30 PM.
08-10-2009, 07:46 PM
Hey guys, im having trouble setting my rear toe-in. I realize that this is a static block but; even with the 3.0 deg block, I am getting 3.25 degree on my left wheel and 2.5 degrees on my right wheel. Both my camber angles are at 1.5 degrees, the shims below the blocks are all the same at 2mm. The shims on the hinge pins are correct, a 2mm one and a 0.75mm one.
I have loosen then tighten the degree blocks at different directions and have found different combinations but never the right one.
Any suggestions?
I have loosen then tighten the degree blocks at different directions and have found different combinations but never the right one.
Any suggestions?
08-10-2009, 07:59 PM
Hey guys, im having trouble setting my rear toe-in. I realize that this is a static block but; even with the 3.0 deg block, I am getting 3.25 degree on my left wheel and 2.5 degrees on my right wheel. Both my camber angles are at 1.5 degrees, the shims below the blocks are all the same at 2mm. The shims on the hinge pins are correct, a 2mm one and a 0.75mm one.
I have loosen then tighten the degree blocks at different directions and have found different combinations but never the right one.
Any suggestions?
I have loosen then tighten the degree blocks at different directions and have found different combinations but never the right one.
Any suggestions?
08-10-2009, 09:22 PM
08-10-2009, 09:35 PM
08-10-2009, 10:00 PM
Phil,
(1) Thanks, excellent feedback.
I can relate 100% to the rear end issue when exiting a corner.
(2) I'm getting things a lot better than the kit setup but have not had much club track time since I purchased my TC (will make up for this when the new club opens around the corner from my place).
(3) Yes, my diff has been loose, so your diff comment is very relevant (and might explain a lot). I check my rear diff tension by holding both the rear wheels and trying to turn the centre pulley with my thumb. Just to confirm, this needs NO slip whatsoever. Also, I have just installed ceramic diff balls (not had the chance to run yet).
(4) Some photos would be greatly appreciated
I should be able to mount the belt tensioner somewhere else (if needed).
(5) I have two TC cars, so I can try cutting stuff, and still have an original as well.
(6) If you could post your setup that would be great I analyse them so I get a better understanding of what works under certain conditions (eg: lo, med, hi, & carpet tracks)
Thanks again
(1) Thanks, excellent feedback.
I can relate 100% to the rear end issue when exiting a corner.
(2) I'm getting things a lot better than the kit setup but have not had much club track time since I purchased my TC (will make up for this when the new club opens around the corner from my place).
(3) Yes, my diff has been loose, so your diff comment is very relevant (and might explain a lot). I check my rear diff tension by holding both the rear wheels and trying to turn the centre pulley with my thumb. Just to confirm, this needs NO slip whatsoever. Also, I have just installed ceramic diff balls (not had the chance to run yet).
(4) Some photos would be greatly appreciated
I should be able to mount the belt tensioner somewhere else (if needed).
(5) I have two TC cars, so I can try cutting stuff, and still have an original as well.
(6) If you could post your setup that would be great
I analyse them so I get a better understanding of what works under certain conditions (eg: lo, med, hi, & carpet tracks)Thanks again
Hi Cosmo,
Sorry about my vagueness
I was reffering to position 5 on the rear shocktower, Im not sure I can totally explain why this works but it definately gave more rear traction on corner exit. Myself and one of my team mates both made the change and agreed on the outcome (both running 5 cell mod). I almost always run position 3 on the rear wishbones by the way.
As for the order of changes, I felt the rear shock position made the biggest difference as it worked specificly on improving the rear traction corner exit in my opinion. Next up was the toe block, this gave a little more rear end stability all round.
As for the flex, I ran the car standard to begin with, but I really felt it was too stiff all round. I cut the rear deck and it did improve rear traction, but took away some steering. I then cut the front deck which brought back the steering.
On my std car I have cut a line down the centre of the TC spec topdeck from the very back all the way to the cutout behind the steering post mount. This worked for me as I dont run a belt tensioner, I have my belts relatively tight for modified anyway so theres really no need. If your running a spec class and want to run the belts looser then Im not entirely sure how you would do it. I seem to recall seeing a friend having cut it as I have, but he drilled a new hole for the tensioner off to the right hand side and used extra spacers to move the bearings back above the belt. If I've not described this well enough I can post some pictures for you tomorrow, just let me know.
If you can try the topdeck and middle deck as I've described, the flex is very similar to the prototype 1 piece topdeck we are running now. (similar flex to how all the teams have their cars, 416, 009 etc)
Oh and one more thing that could help with rear traction is the rear diff. It needs to feel smooth but have no slip whatsoever. I rebuild mine every 2 runs at a serious meeting so its perfect, but once every 5-6 runs tends to be ok at club meetings. There is also a little adjustment past the point at which it has stopped slipping. I find a diff with a looser action tends to make the car want to carry on turning when you exit a corner and a diff with a tighter action tends to make the car drive smoother out of the corners (more rear traction).
Hope this helps, let me know if you want me to elaborate on anything.
Cheers,
Phil.
Sorry about my vagueness
I was reffering to position 5 on the rear shocktower, Im not sure I can totally explain why this works but it definately gave more rear traction on corner exit. Myself and one of my team mates both made the change and agreed on the outcome (both running 5 cell mod). I almost always run position 3 on the rear wishbones by the way
.As for the order of changes, I felt the rear shock position made the biggest difference as it worked specificly on improving the rear traction corner exit in my opinion. Next up was the toe block, this gave a little more rear end stability all round.
As for the flex, I ran the car standard to begin with, but I really felt it was too stiff all round. I cut the rear deck and it did improve rear traction, but took away some steering. I then cut the front deck which brought back the steering.
On my std car I have cut a line down the centre of the TC spec topdeck from the very back all the way to the cutout behind the steering post mount. This worked for me as I dont run a belt tensioner, I have my belts relatively tight for modified anyway so theres really no need. If your running a spec class and want to run the belts looser then Im not entirely sure how you would do it. I seem to recall seeing a friend having cut it as I have, but he drilled a new hole for the tensioner off to the right hand side and used extra spacers to move the bearings back above the belt. If I've not described this well enough I can post some pictures for you tomorrow, just let me know.
If you can try the topdeck and middle deck as I've described, the flex is very similar to the prototype 1 piece topdeck we are running now. (similar flex to how all the teams have their cars, 416, 009 etc)
Oh and one more thing that could help with rear traction is the rear diff. It needs to feel smooth but have no slip whatsoever. I rebuild mine every 2 runs at a serious meeting so its perfect, but once every 5-6 runs tends to be ok at club meetings. There is also a little adjustment past the point at which it has stopped slipping. I find a diff with a looser action tends to make the car want to carry on turning when you exit a corner and a diff with a tighter action tends to make the car drive smoother out of the corners (more rear traction).
Hope this helps, let me know if you want me to elaborate on anything.
Cheers,
Phil.
08-10-2009, 11:01 PM
Tech Rookie
Another question. What make wheel disks your using?
I had a vtec and speed mind ones, but seems that they don't last longer than one meeting(racing super stock, and i don't hit the bars that much )
I had a vtec and speed mind ones, but seems that they don't last longer than one meeting(racing super stock, and i don't hit the bars that much
)
08-10-2009, 11:33 PM
(1) Thanks, excellent feedback.
I can relate 100% to the rear end issue when exiting a corner.
I can relate 100% to the rear end issue when exiting a corner.
I was reffering to position 5 on the rear shocktower, Im not sure I can totally explain why this works but it definately gave more rear traction on corner exit. Myself and one of my team mates both made the change and agreed on the outcome (both running 5 cell mod). I almost always run position 3 on the rear wishbones by the way .
but when running it the rear was really loose again like old days.
so i changed the rear arb from 1.2 to 1.4 and problem was solved.
next time out i will try the difference between the arb change and standing up the rear shocks with keeping the 1.2 arb at the rear.
it will be interesting to see the change in wheel rate combined with roll rate v.s just the roll rate of the car.
08-11-2009, 12:37 AM
Tech Adept
Thanks, for the responses guys.
Phill C, i run with 5 cells mod, too, and Lipo 10.5 motors, and i feel the same effect, but i use the 4 hole in shocktower, because in the 5 i feel, limit more rear roll.
When i test the rear cut deck, in the very low grip conditions, i feel the rear more loose, i have the old graphite rear deck cut off, and the new FRP uncut, is possible for the difference in material.
My car is loose, only when is more hot day, but, i think is for shock oil, when in the same day the weather is variable, when is cool the car run excelent.
Greetings, Luis C.
Phill C, i run with 5 cells mod, too, and Lipo 10.5 motors, and i feel the same effect, but i use the 4 hole in shocktower, because in the 5 i feel, limit more rear roll.
When i test the rear cut deck, in the very low grip conditions, i feel the rear more loose, i have the old graphite rear deck cut off, and the new FRP uncut, is possible for the difference in material.
My car is loose, only when is more hot day, but, i think is for shock oil, when in the same day the weather is variable, when is cool the car run excelent.
Greetings, Luis C.
08-11-2009, 01:38 AM
to just add to this loose rear problem. two weeks ago i was running my spare car to try a different motor esc combo in a setup i thought was near enough to my race car. on my race car i had just gone to harder dampers and softer springs so i did change those to match the race car but then i left the 1.4/1.2 arb settings on the spare car cause i thought it wouldn't be that important.
but when running it the rear was really loose again like old days.
so i changed the rear arb from 1.2 to 1.4 and problem was solved.
next time out i will try the difference between the arb change and standing up the rear shocks with keeping the 1.2 arb at the rear.
it will be interesting to see the change in wheel rate combined with roll rate v.s just the roll rate of the car.
but when running it the rear was really loose again like old days.
so i changed the rear arb from 1.2 to 1.4 and problem was solved.
next time out i will try the difference between the arb change and standing up the rear shocks with keeping the 1.2 arb at the rear.
it will be interesting to see the change in wheel rate combined with roll rate v.s just the roll rate of the car.
There is no mail order stock of the 1.2mm swaybars, so I have not been able to try them. I have increased the rear linkage gap as an alternative.
08-11-2009, 01:49 AM
at the moment i put a 1.5mm shim between all arb linkages
but i do run the full plastic ball links, with the screw hole from the kit, at the top instead of the alloy end piece with the plastic ball link.
for me when i used the alloy combination at that spacing it rubbed against my cvd bone
besides that the plastic is lighter and i still need to save weight for the 10.5 or 13.5 class rules.
but i do run the full plastic ball links, with the screw hole from the kit, at the top instead of the alloy end piece with the plastic ball link.
for me when i used the alloy combination at that spacing it rubbed against my cvd bone
besides that the plastic is lighter and i still need to save weight for the 10.5 or 13.5 class rules.
08-11-2009, 08:05 AM
Trinity DUO 10.5 Brushless
Help,
(1) I'm currently wiring a Trinity DUO 10.5 Brushless motor to a speedy in my TC.
Looking at the green endbell, do the A,B,C posts on the motor go from left to right (there are no markings)
(2) Also with this motor, how do I change from hole one to (say) hole two
There's a green endbell (with three groups, of three holes) but I dont know how to move it.
I've only used a Tekin 10.5 up to this point.
Thanks in advance
(1) I'm currently wiring a Trinity DUO 10.5 Brushless motor to a speedy in my TC.
Looking at the green endbell, do the A,B,C posts on the motor go from left to right (there are no markings)
(2) Also with this motor, how do I change from hole one to (say) hole two
There's a green endbell (with three groups, of three holes) but I dont know how to move it.
I've only used a Tekin 10.5 up to this point.
Thanks in advance
08-11-2009, 08:10 AM
Help,
(1) I'm currently wiring a Trinity DUO 10.5 Brushless motor to a speedy in my TC.
Looking at the green endbell, do the A,B,C posts on the motor go from left to right (there are no markings)
(2) Also with this motor, how do I change from hole one to (say) hole two
There's a green endbell (with three groups, of three holes) but I dont know how to move it.
I've only used a Tekin 10.5 up to this point.
Thanks in advance
(1) I'm currently wiring a Trinity DUO 10.5 Brushless motor to a speedy in my TC.
Looking at the green endbell, do the A,B,C posts on the motor go from left to right (there are no markings)
(2) Also with this motor, how do I change from hole one to (say) hole two
There's a green endbell (with three groups, of three holes) but I dont know how to move it.
I've only used a Tekin 10.5 up to this point.
Thanks in advance
To change the timing you remove the three screws on the pinion side and then twist the rear plat to line up with the other holes. All the way to the left is 0 static timing; the middle in 10deg of timing; the right hole is 20deg of timing. I always use the middle hole.
08-11-2009, 08:32 AM
A is the most left from the back; B in the middle; C on the right
To change the timing you remove the three screws on the pinion side and then twist the rear plat to line up with the other holes. All the way to the left is 0 static timing; the middle in 10deg of timing; the right hole is 20deg of timing. I always use the middle hole.
To change the timing you remove the three screws on the pinion side and then twist the rear plat to line up with the other holes. All the way to the left is 0 static timing; the middle in 10deg of timing; the right hole is 20deg of timing. I always use the middle hole.
Screws were a LOT longer than I thought.
Looks like it is on hole one (zero degrees) from the factory.