RCGT....Where is it at now?
06-10-2010, 06:34 AM
#62
Didn't roar fix this already with the sportsman class?
06-10-2010, 06:59 AM
#64
if you guy want to make rcgt more challenging and more "spec", you could have people use the speed passion system with a 17.5 and have to run a street car body without wing. you can only go so fast without wing, that will be challenging.
with call this "the steet legal class"
with call this "the steet legal class"
06-10-2010, 07:13 AM
#65
So have any decisions been made yet ?
06-10-2010, 07:20 AM
#66
Wow! This ended up being a good discussion.
Well, we just started our "GT" class this year with our first official race coming this sunday. After some discussion on our track's forum, we ended up with basic "RCGT" rules with some changes...
First, the name: 17.5 GT No Boost
ESC / Not Legal: Tekin v203, Black Diamond, LRP SXX-SS
ESC / Legal: LRP SPX, Tekin v200 andolder ESCs.
Tires/Wheels: Minimum 24mm rubber tires, spoked wheels only(No dish)
Weight Limit: 1450g
About the tires., Initially I wasn't too keen on the minimum width of 24mm but I realized we are pretty much guaranteed great traction and wear if we use the preferred tire at our track, the Sorex 36R. This ensures less handling and wear problems which of course leads to more enjoyment and less headache and guessing. Plus, we can use the same tires in other touring classes(less tires in the pit box!). Sure, it WILL lead to everybody using Sorex 36's but I don't think any of us will mind. Just gotta use 190mm bodies though. Your thoughts.
I do have a concern about "RCGT" type bodies. Are some people shying away from "RCGT" because of the usual pricey, intricate and highly detailed bodies? Some may not want to make the effort or take the time to do-up one of these bodies especially with the thought that they can and will eventually beat up their masterpiece during a race. Yes, the bodies is what "RCGT" is all about and I wouldn't want it any other way but after doing up my first fully decaled Tamiya body(Takata Dome NSX), the thought of just grazing a corner pipe makes me cringe. Not saying we should change it, it was just a thought.
Well, we just started our "GT" class this year with our first official race coming this sunday. After some discussion on our track's forum, we ended up with basic "RCGT" rules with some changes...
First, the name: 17.5 GT No Boost
ESC / Not Legal: Tekin v203, Black Diamond, LRP SXX-SS
ESC / Legal: LRP SPX, Tekin v200 andolder ESCs.
Tires/Wheels: Minimum 24mm rubber tires, spoked wheels only(No dish)
Weight Limit: 1450g
About the tires., Initially I wasn't too keen on the minimum width of 24mm but I realized we are pretty much guaranteed great traction and wear if we use the preferred tire at our track, the Sorex 36R. This ensures less handling and wear problems which of course leads to more enjoyment and less headache and guessing. Plus, we can use the same tires in other touring classes(less tires in the pit box!). Sure, it WILL lead to everybody using Sorex 36's but I don't think any of us will mind. Just gotta use 190mm bodies though. Your thoughts.
I do have a concern about "RCGT" type bodies. Are some people shying away from "RCGT" because of the usual pricey, intricate and highly detailed bodies? Some may not want to make the effort or take the time to do-up one of these bodies especially with the thought that they can and will eventually beat up their masterpiece during a race. Yes, the bodies is what "RCGT" is all about and I wouldn't want it any other way but after doing up my first fully decaled Tamiya body(Takata Dome NSX), the thought of just grazing a corner pipe makes me cringe. Not saying we should change it, it was just a thought.
06-10-2010, 07:29 AM
#67
I like parts of VTA and RCGT rules. We will be trying the Citrix combo just can't decide on 21.5 or 17.5 because we do run smaller tracks. Like the one tire rule because there is no difference and whoever stocks hobbyshop has one to buy and these days that's good.
Would like to have a set lipo like dirt oval but cheap where a racer can get lipo, brushless esc and motor for $100.
Run whatever 4wd chassis you want.
Would like to have a set lipo like dirt oval but cheap where a racer can get lipo, brushless esc and motor for $100.
Run whatever 4wd chassis you want.
06-10-2010, 07:31 AM
#68
Stll disagree with making a spec tire rule. Like many have said...this shouldnt be VTA. Whether it goes 21.5 or 17.5, the increased performance will make it more difficult to settle on one tire for all track types. I also think tire choice between the 3 available options should be treated as a driver learning and tuning tool. Again ...a step up the ladder.
06-10-2010, 08:30 AM
#70
The more I read all this ,the more I wonder "Just what are we trying to accomplish ?" It seems RCGT is a good class and we want to see it survive but there's a lack of guidance that's starting to have a negative effect. Technology surges have increased expense and the distance between RCGT and TC has decreased to the point where RCGT is almost reduntant. In my mind this is bad. My idea of RCGT, and I may be wrong, is that it should be a more mainstream effort to get AND KEEP new drivers interested in the hobby by way of its more realistic, less expensive, more competitive nature. Some will argue that slowing things down will make it less fun. If thats the case, what would stop these folks from racing TC class where they can get the speed fix they want.
That said, here's a basic plan that could be adopted as the "NATIONAL" accepted rules.
1. Nobody has a problem with the body choices...leave them alone.
2. Nobody has a problem with chassis choices..... leave them alone
3. Leave the tire/wheel choices as they are. Great learning tool and as tires are a disposable item, cost is measured over long term and not that much different than spec tire.
3. Make the choice of driver level options discretionary amongst track and clubs. IE
a. Sportsman: 21.5 with fixed esc's (Cirtix, Havoc, etc)
b. Expert: 17.5 with fixed esc's. A step up option...driver can move to expert easily. Slight variations for timing advance could be made on a per club/track/event basis.
Every group then has an option to run a legitimate RCGT program that conforms to a national set of rules. No one has to worry that they're running a rogue program. When a RCGT "sanctioned" event happens, all the drivers know they have cars that conform to the rules.
And yes, I realize there's a bunch of people who have already invested in RS's,Black Diamonds, and software upgrades and thats unfortunate. It's a shame that decisions weren't made to curb that situation but it's done. Now we have to stop the madness and take our lumps before we lose sight of the fact that RCGT needs to attract new blood and can't be all about catering to those who simply did what the rules didn't plan for.
That said, here's a basic plan that could be adopted as the "NATIONAL" accepted rules.
1. Nobody has a problem with the body choices...leave them alone.
2. Nobody has a problem with chassis choices..... leave them alone
3. Leave the tire/wheel choices as they are. Great learning tool and as tires are a disposable item, cost is measured over long term and not that much different than spec tire.
3. Make the choice of driver level options discretionary amongst track and clubs. IE
a. Sportsman: 21.5 with fixed esc's (Cirtix, Havoc, etc)
b. Expert: 17.5 with fixed esc's. A step up option...driver can move to expert easily. Slight variations for timing advance could be made on a per club/track/event basis.
Every group then has an option to run a legitimate RCGT program that conforms to a national set of rules. No one has to worry that they're running a rogue program. When a RCGT "sanctioned" event happens, all the drivers know they have cars that conform to the rules.
And yes, I realize there's a bunch of people who have already invested in RS's,Black Diamonds, and software upgrades and thats unfortunate. It's a shame that decisions weren't made to curb that situation but it's done. Now we have to stop the madness and take our lumps before we lose sight of the fact that RCGT needs to attract new blood and can't be all about catering to those who simply did what the rules didn't plan for.
06-10-2010, 10:19 AM
#71
The more I read all this ,the more I wonder "Just what are we trying to accomplish ?" It seems RCGT is a good class and we want to see it survive but there's a lack of guidance that's starting to have a negative effect. Technology surges have increased expense and the distance between RCGT and TC has decreased to the point where RCGT is almost reduntant. In my mind this is bad. My idea of RCGT, and I may be wrong, is that it should be a more mainstream effort to get AND KEEP new drivers interested in the hobby by way of its more realistic, less expensive, more competitive nature. Some will argue that slowing things down will make it less fun. If thats the case, what would stop these folks from racing TC class where they can get the speed fix they want.
That said, here's a basic plan that could be adopted as the "NATIONAL" accepted rules.
1. Nobody has a problem with the body choices...leave them alone.
2. Nobody has a problem with chassis choices..... leave them alone
3. Leave the tire/wheel choices as they are. Great learning tool and as tires are a disposable item, cost is measured over long term and not that much different than spec tire.
3. Make the choice of driver level options discretionary amongst track and clubs. IE
a. Sportsman: 21.5 with fixed esc's (Cirtix, Havoc, etc)
b. Expert: 17.5 with fixed esc's. A step up option...driver can move to expert easily. Slight variations for timing advance could be made on a per club/track/event basis.
Every group then has an option to run a legitimate RCGT program that conforms to a national set of rules. No one has to worry that they're running a rogue program. When a RCGT "sanctioned" event happens, all the drivers know they have cars that conform to the rules.
And yes, I realize there's a bunch of people who have already invested in RS's,Black Diamonds, and software upgrades and thats unfortunate. It's a shame that decisions weren't made to curb that situation but it's done. Now we have to stop the madness and take our lumps before we lose sight of the fact that RCGT needs to attract new blood and can't be all about catering to those who simply did what the rules didn't plan for.
That said, here's a basic plan that could be adopted as the "NATIONAL" accepted rules.
1. Nobody has a problem with the body choices...leave them alone.
2. Nobody has a problem with chassis choices..... leave them alone
3. Leave the tire/wheel choices as they are. Great learning tool and as tires are a disposable item, cost is measured over long term and not that much different than spec tire.
3. Make the choice of driver level options discretionary amongst track and clubs. IE
a. Sportsman: 21.5 with fixed esc's (Cirtix, Havoc, etc)
b. Expert: 17.5 with fixed esc's. A step up option...driver can move to expert easily. Slight variations for timing advance could be made on a per club/track/event basis.
Every group then has an option to run a legitimate RCGT program that conforms to a national set of rules. No one has to worry that they're running a rogue program. When a RCGT "sanctioned" event happens, all the drivers know they have cars that conform to the rules.
And yes, I realize there's a bunch of people who have already invested in RS's,Black Diamonds, and software upgrades and thats unfortunate. It's a shame that decisions weren't made to curb that situation but it's done. Now we have to stop the madness and take our lumps before we lose sight of the fact that RCGT needs to attract new blood and can't be all about catering to those who simply did what the rules didn't plan for.
take it and run with it. by the way... RCGT Showdown organizers created the series to "increase attendance" across Socal tracks.. so some rules were "massaged" so that ease of entrance into the class would be easier (and it worked). the idea was never to make this its own "primary class". we wanted ppl to say.. "oh i have a second car.. let me run RCGT as a second class to help pass the time". but success made it HUGE.
and it grew into what we're talking about now.lets throw more wrenches into the equation.
- non-boost esc (i think everyone agrees on this).
- do not specify a specific brand because then you have Novak fanboys not joining because its Speed Passion and vice versa.
- 21.5 fixed timing motors (fixed timing is the key)
here's the kicker... the only bodies that are legal are realistic bodies WITH MOLDED plastic wings. NO HOP UP or Lexan wings allowed.. PERIOD. (this rules out the MR-S, NSX, Lotus and Tamiya Ebbro w/HDF wings that has become the norm here in socal).
06-10-2010, 10:25 AM
#72
i nominate YOU to head this up take it and run with it.
by the way... RCGT Showdown organizers created the series to "increase attendance" across Socal tracks.. so some rules were "massaged" so that ease of entrance into the class would be easier (and it worked). the idea was never to make this its own "primary class". we wanted ppl to say.. "oh i have a second car.. let me run RCGT as a second class to help pass the time". but success made it HUGE. and it grew into what we're talking about now.
lets throw more wrenches into the equation.
- non-boost esc (i think everyone agrees on this).
- do not specify a specific brand because then you have Novak fanboys not joining because its Speed Passion and vice versa.
- 21.5 fixed timing motors (fixed timing is the key)
here's the kicker... the only bodies that are legal are realistic bodies WITH MOLDED plastic wings. NO HOP UP or Lexan wings allowed.. PERIOD. (this rules out the MR-S, NSX, Lotus and Tamiya Ebbro w/HDF wings that has become the norm here in socal).
take it and run with it. by the way... RCGT Showdown organizers created the series to "increase attendance" across Socal tracks.. so some rules were "massaged" so that ease of entrance into the class would be easier (and it worked). the idea was never to make this its own "primary class". we wanted ppl to say.. "oh i have a second car.. let me run RCGT as a second class to help pass the time". but success made it HUGE.
and it grew into what we're talking about now.lets throw more wrenches into the equation.
- non-boost esc (i think everyone agrees on this).
- do not specify a specific brand because then you have Novak fanboys not joining because its Speed Passion and vice versa.
- 21.5 fixed timing motors (fixed timing is the key)
here's the kicker... the only bodies that are legal are realistic bodies WITH MOLDED plastic wings. NO HOP UP or Lexan wings allowed.. PERIOD. (this rules out the MR-S, NSX, Lotus and Tamiya Ebbro w/HDF wings that has become the norm here in socal).
And I agree with everything you said. I hope I didn't suggest anything different in my post. The body suggestion is definitely a good one. As for the manufacturer thing, If a company has a viable product that meets with the simple guidelines...go for it.
06-10-2010, 10:58 AM
#74
So RCGT would basically be TC with a different body ??
Stll disagree with making a spec tire rule. Like many have said...this shouldnt be VTA. Whether it goes 21.5 or 17.5, the increased performance will make it more difficult to settle on one tire for all track types. I also think tire choice between the 3 available options should be treated as a driver learning and tuning tool. Again ...a step up the ladder.
Stll disagree with making a spec tire rule. Like many have said...this shouldnt be VTA. Whether it goes 21.5 or 17.5, the increased performance will make it more difficult to settle on one tire for all track types. I also think tire choice between the 3 available options should be treated as a driver learning and tuning tool. Again ...a step up the ladder.
(1) Because then everyone in the world running RCGT doesn't have to rely on HPI rim\tires.
(2) One thing I don't like about the HPI tire is that who knows what inserts are being used in the tire? I guess you could peel back some of the tire to check if a racer's tires were in question.
(3) I don't like having to glue rubber tires to rims if I can already buy them pre-mounted.
(4) I can use them in the TC class as well.
Last edited by Apex; 06-10-2010 at 11:21 AM.
06-10-2010, 11:00 AM
#75
i nominate YOU to head this up take it and run with it.
by the way... RCGT Showdown organizers created the series to "increase attendance" across Socal tracks.. so some rules were "massaged" so that ease of entrance into the class would be easier (and it worked). the idea was never to make this its own "primary class". we wanted ppl to say.. "oh i have a second car.. let me run RCGT as a second class to help pass the time". but success made it HUGE. and it grew into what we're talking about now.
lets throw more wrenches into the equation.
- non-boost esc (i think everyone agrees on this).
- do not specify a specific brand because then you have Novak fanboys not joining because its Speed Passion and vice versa.
- 21.5 fixed timing motors (fixed timing is the key)
here's the kicker... the only bodies that are legal are realistic bodies WITH MOLDED plastic wings. NO HOP UP or Lexan wings allowed.. PERIOD. (this rules out the MR-S, NSX, Lotus and Tamiya Ebbro w/HDF wings that has become the norm here in socal).
take it and run with it. by the way... RCGT Showdown organizers created the series to "increase attendance" across Socal tracks.. so some rules were "massaged" so that ease of entrance into the class would be easier (and it worked). the idea was never to make this its own "primary class". we wanted ppl to say.. "oh i have a second car.. let me run RCGT as a second class to help pass the time". but success made it HUGE.
and it grew into what we're talking about now.lets throw more wrenches into the equation.
- non-boost esc (i think everyone agrees on this).
- do not specify a specific brand because then you have Novak fanboys not joining because its Speed Passion and vice versa.
- 21.5 fixed timing motors (fixed timing is the key)
here's the kicker... the only bodies that are legal are realistic bodies WITH MOLDED plastic wings. NO HOP UP or Lexan wings allowed.. PERIOD. (this rules out the MR-S, NSX, Lotus and Tamiya Ebbro w/HDF wings that has become the norm here in socal).
I do agree with the body rule BTW!
Speaking of that I need to get my B44 body from him
