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Old 12-27-2011, 12:18 AM   #3976
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Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
I found the car frees up in the corners, rolls a little more, and has a more aggressive feel overall. They just make the car rotate harder throughout the corner.

-Korey
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Gave the lower towers a try. To me it rolls more to the point I dont like. It actually feels slower

Under what conditions is this hop up usefull in? Also what type of shock setups have racers been running to get them to work?

Im willing to give the lowered towers one more test day before I set judgement on them.
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:48 AM   #3977
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Gave the lower towers a try. To me it rolls more to the point I dont like. It actually feels slower

Under what conditions is this hop up usefull in? Also what type of shock setups have racers been running to get them to work?

Im willing to give the lowered towers one more test day before I set judgement on them.
I think they are better on a very high grip/technical track, other than that cant go past the standard ones



On another note had a good day with my car today with an extremely different setup to usual. Im not sure if it was faster because we didnt have timing going and a new layout but the car was very gripped up with noticably more corner speed
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:05 PM   #3978
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Correct that is how I adjusted it by removing the top deck but I do not recomend for frequent ratio changes as all the trouble ain't worth it. For me it is OK as I only race at tracks that require same FDR.

Main reason I chose these spurs is that being black they always look clean...
John, I'm thinking of putting my car back on the track. Looking at your set-up you have the following listed (POM Out-drives, DCJ Axles, and Rear Spec-R Gear Diff with 2000 oil) is there anything else I should think about getting?

How much droop F/R and shock length (64mm)?

Ron
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:28 AM   #3979
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Originally Posted by goots View Post
Gave the lower towers a try. To me it rolls more to the point I dont like. It actually feels slower

Under what conditions is this hop up usefull in? Also what type of shock setups have racers been running to get them to work?

Im willing to give the lowered towers one more test day before I set judgement on them.
They require some small changes to make the most of them. With the old towers, I ran 1.0mm shims under the front suspension blocks a lot to make it roll enough. Seems like with the lowered towers I always favored high roll centers (1.5mm under suspension blocks) and slightly wider suspension blocks like the +1.0. Just make changes accordingly and they will work well .
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:18 AM   #3980
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John, I'm thinking of putting my car back on the track. Looking at your set-up you have the following listed (POM Out-drives, DCJ Axles, and Rear Spec-R Gear Diff with 2000 oil) is there anything else I should think about getting?

How much droop F/R and shock length (64mm)?

Ron
Hi Ron,
Depends on what conditions you'll be running. For indoors carpet with rigid boards I don't know whether POM will be strong enough. You may need to use the steel out-drives. Also 3 hole 1.1mm pistons I always like.
For outdoors asphalt with grass between lanes, as you said these are all you need. In the future you may try the new 3hole steering blocks, titanium purple camber links and narrow chassis, but they are not a 'must-have' item.
Shock length and droop I did not actually measure as I did some adjustments on track during the race and did not check again..
Will measure during the weekend and get back to you.

Regards,
John
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:46 AM   #3981
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Thanks, both carpet/ asphalt tracks have rigid boards so I'll stay with the steel out-drives. I'm going to the track today first time I had my TCX on the track in all most a year.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:44 AM   #3982
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hello
i'm running a tcx in 10.5 on a very low grip carpet in france
i use standart setup with 3 holes piston, 300cst oil, silver spring at front and blue at rear
i have a lot of oversteer
i read lowering the roll center by removing shim under suspension block can increase grip, what do you think about it?
do i remove shim under inner pivot ball to?
thank
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:06 PM   #3983
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hello
i'm running a tcx in 10.5 on a very low grip carpet in france
i use standart setup with 3 holes piston, 300cst oil, silver spring at front and blue at rear
i have a lot of oversteer
i read lowering the roll center by removing shim under suspension block can increase grip, what do you think about it?
do i remove shim under inner pivot ball to?
thank
To help with oversteer you could try:
-Sauce less of the front tire. For less time also. It's not uncommon to not sauce the front at all sometimes on low bite carpet.
-Add 1mm spacer (for a total of 3mm) under front inner camber link ballstud. (smooths out steering) creates less camber gain.
-I almost always have too much steering on carpet with silver springs in front. Pink/Gold usually works best in front with silver in rear using ~450cst oil w/ 3-hole 1.1mm pistons.
-Going out a hole on the rear tower helps lock in the rear a bit.

These are just a few things to try. If you post more of your set-up, everyone here could probably help you out a lot more.
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:21 PM   #3984
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To help with oversteer you could try:
-Sauce less of the front tire. For less time also. It's not uncommon to not sauce the front at all sometimes on low bite carpet.
-Add 1mm spacer (for a total of 3mm) under front inner camber link ballstud. (smooths out steering) creates less camber gain.
-I almost always have too much steering on carpet with silver springs in front. Pink/Gold usually works best in front with silver in rear using ~450cst oil w/ 3-hole 1.1mm pistons.
-Going out a hole on the rear tower helps lock in the rear a bit.

These are just a few things to try. If you post more of your set-up, everyone here could probably help you out a lot more.
many thank shaunmac

i use the box setup with a rear gear diff :
front camber 1.5, rear camber 2
ff block 2.5, rr block 3, 1.5mm shim under all the suspension block, 2mm under the inner pivot ball
1.4 mm front anti roll bar, 1.2mm at the rear
3rd hole on the new -2mm suspension tower
300cst oil, 3 holes piston 1.1mm
silver spring in front, blue in rear
ride height 5.5mm in front, 6 in rear
lrp cpx tyre with cs high grip
spool in the front and gear diff in the rear with 700cst oil (i try 2000, it's worse)
lrp x12 10.5, ratio 7.2 and hobbywing xtrem stock esc
speed 6 body (ltcr is worse)
i try the outer hole on the rear hub : undriveable
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:18 PM   #3985
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I got similar conditions on the carpet of my local club...

As this is not a permanent track, the grip remains low...

Last time, I ran my TCFD but I can't get my rear planted. Car was quite easy but not fast... Now I consider to run my TCX instead (front motor seems to be an handicap on low grip, just as drift).

So I have the same questions about low grip setups... I'm running the -2 front and rear supports, but I'm not sure it's a good idea on low-grip. They mainly change the damper inclination and the piston position in the damper. Having less oil above the piston does not seem to be a good idea... What do you think about that?

Ok let's take the problem from the start:
- First try, I was running double gear-diff, seemed very touchy, I decided to re-install ball diff and spool, Much better!
- Second try, oversteering a lot, I decided to change the way I sauce the tires. Only half in front, full in rear, better too! But I dislike it because I consider that the car has to behave correctly without asymmetric tire preparation...
- Third try, once again, oversteering, I decided to remove spacers to make the roll center as low as possible in the rear and keep 1mm spacers in the front, I also adjust the droop to 6 in front and 4 in rear, quite better but car seemed slower...

Now the car is drivable but not fast... Fast drivers seem to use silver springs, in front and in rear..

I'm quite lost, I think that now I need more grip of course, but also traction...

And a lot of questions:
- Keeping anti-roll bars is really a good idea?
- Is 3-hole, 45WT, silver springs the best combination?
- I hear that long upper links in the rear make the car more stable but lower the corner speed, is that right?
- We are using MM Absolute 32 with MM V-cute Red, have you any experience with that combination?

Finally, take a peek on these two photos:
http://www.overrc.com/courses/course...1/IMG_9926.JPG
http://www.overrc.com/courses/course...1/IMG_9931.JPG

This car was faster than mine, and the settings seem to be going to the opposite direction as mine... WTF?


Heeeeeeeelp! I'm very lost! HB cars are very fast on high-grip tracks, and it seems that nobody run on low-grip track...
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:26 PM   #3986
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thanks
i will work on shim and spring
i buy last week ride28 tyre and corally tc4 carpet jack, i will try too
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:50 PM   #3987
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Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
So I have the same questions about low grip setups... I'm running the -2 front and rear supports, but I'm not sure it's a good idea on low-grip. They mainly change the damper inclination and the piston position in the damper. Having less oil above the piston does not seem to be a good idea... What do you think about that? Agreed. The less pack generated by the lower towers takes away a lot of grip. On low bite tracks you need all the grip you can get. Swap those towers for the stock ones. Set the shock length at 65mm and give it a try.

Ok let's take the problem from the start:
- First try, I was running double gear-diff, seemed very touchy, I decided to re-install ball diff and spool, Much better! What cst oils did you run? Putty in front and 700 - 1000cst in rear works well in low bite, but if traction is really really low then a spool/ball diff combo may be the ticket. Are any other fast racers using gear diffs at your track?

- Second try, oversteering a lot, I decided to change the way I sauce the tires. Only half in front, full in rear, better too! But I dislike it because I consider that the car has to behave correctly without asymmetric tire preparation... I've never had a car that worked the way I wanted it to on carpet with full sauce on the front. Not to say it can't be done but it would always bite too hard for me.

- Third try, once again, oversteering, I decided to remove spacers to make the roll center as low as possible in the rear and keep 1mm spacers in the front, I also adjust the droop to 6 in front and 4 in rear, quite better but car seemed slower... The low roll centers usually feel better but the car loses A LOT of corner speed. Too much to the point it feels like it stalls mid-corner. Try 1mm all around. You can also try reducing the front arm sweep. I usually run 1.5. It seems to have a good balance of entry, mid and exit steering.

Now the car is drivable but not fast... Fast drivers seem to use silver springs, in front and in rear..

I'm quite lost, I think that now I need more grip of course, but also traction...

And a lot of questions:
- Keeping anti-roll bars is really a good idea? I've never worked on a setup without them. But some really fast drivers don't use them.

- Is 3-hole, 45WT, silver springs the best combination? Track conditions, layout, temp, driving style and the rest of your setup will dictate what shock package to run. Moore and Hara often run different set-ups at the same race. You really have to try for yourself to know what's the best for you.

- I hear that long upper links in the rear make the car more stable but lower the corner speed, is that right? In my experience, the longer rear links make the car harder to drive. Especially, on low grip tracks.
- We are using MM Absolute 32 with MM V-cute Red, have you any experience with that combination? Only on asphalt.

Finally, take a peek on these two photos:
http://www.overrc.com/courses/course...1/IMG_9926.JPG
http://www.overrc.com/courses/course...1/IMG_9931.JPG

This car was faster than mine, and the settings seem to be going to the opposite direction as mine... WTF? Sometimes things seem to work backwards from the way they should. You just have to give different things a try.

Heeeeeeeelp! I'm very lost! HB cars are very fast on high-grip tracks, and it seems that nobody run on low-grip track...
See red above. I hope I helped a little and didn't further confuse things.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:14 PM   #3988
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i think ball diff is a good idea. a gear diff can't slip. a very loose ball diff may feel the car like a FF.
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:39 AM   #3989
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Ok let's take the problem from the start:
- First try, I was running double gear-diff, seemed very touchy, I decided to re-install ball diff and spool, Much better! What cst oils did you run? Putty in front and 700 - 1000cst in rear works well in low bite, but if traction is really really low then a spool/ball diff combo may be the ticket. Are any other fast racers using gear diffs at your track?I was using Spec-R diff oils, #300000 in front, #1000 in rear. Great combination on asphalt, but not on low-grip carpet... Maybe I'll give them a try once I got a better car

- Second try, oversteering a lot, I decided to change the way I sauce the tires. Only half in front, full in rear, better too! But I dislike it because I consider that the car has to behave correctly without asymmetric tire preparation... I've never had a car that worked the way I wanted it to on carpet with full sauce on the front. Not to say it can't be done but it would always bite too hard for me. Ok, I will resign myself to that

- Third try, once again, oversteering, I decided to remove spacers to make the roll center as low as possible in the rear and keep 1mm spacers in the front, I also adjust the droop to 6 in front and 4 in rear, quite better but car seemed slower... The low roll centers usually feel better but the car loses A LOT of corner speed. Too much to the point it feels like it stalls mid-corner. Try 1mm all around. You can also try reducing the front arm sweep. I usually run 1.5. It seems to have a good balance of entry, mid and exit steering.I agree about the spacers, I've gone too far... What about the droop?

- Keeping anti-roll bars is really a good idea? I've never worked on a setup without them. But some really fast drivers don't use them. But do we agree that lower is the grip, softer must the anti-roll bars be?

- Is 3-hole, 45WT, silver springs the best combination? Track conditions, layout, temp, driving style and the rest of your setup will dictate what shock package to run. Moore and Hara often run different set-ups at the same race. You really have to try for yourself to know what's the best for you.Maybe, I will prepare several dampers kits, and switch them...

- I hear that long upper links in the rear make the car more stable but lower the corner speed, is that right? In my experience, the longer rear links make the car harder to drive. Especially, on low grip tracks. Interesting, this settings seemed to appear with the TCX... I've never seen anybody running the outer hole on a TC... So back to inner hole...

- I also want to try the +1 FR block with a 1.0 FF block... Will that change affect the steering in the good way?

If anybody else have a another thing to add, don't hesitate, thanks!
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:46 AM   #3990
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Hi Guys, few questions if someone could help me out.

what effect would it have on the car going from the 1.5mm spacers under all blocks to 0mm all round front and rear?

dcj driveshafts effects in 13.5/10.5 class?

Thanks R
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