Should timing boost ESC's be legal for spec/stock classes?
#16
Tech Addict
iTrader: (13)
Stock class has changed with bl
no longer is it a fixed timing motor like the old brushed
and now with the timing advance/boost it's even more so like mod
IMO it's lost it's spec rulings a tad as a fuzzy area it's jus the winds that keep it a stock class other than that it seems open game
rules seemed tighter before no bearings no adjustable timing on end bells etc
an all armatures were visable with an identifyable marking for easy scrutineering
no longer is it a fixed timing motor like the old brushed
and now with the timing advance/boost it's even more so like mod
IMO it's lost it's spec rulings a tad as a fuzzy area it's jus the winds that keep it a stock class other than that it seems open game
rules seemed tighter before no bearings no adjustable timing on end bells etc
an all armatures were visable with an identifyable marking for easy scrutineering
#17
even with the brushed motors how many novak esc's did we go thru, don't remember all the names, but my first was a cyclone with a purple label, then you had to get the green label, then the green label with the TC on it, not to mention the other manufactors esc's, oh and lets not get on the brushes, and secrect soaking mixtures and the differenct springs with a special little kink in it. on and on..... stock was never stock.
#19
Tech Master
iTrader: (10)
At almost all my local tracks everyone runs the tekin rs we all are differently spread out because it is simply the driver. People should learn how to use there stuff better and get used to it. If a guy is faster on the strait and he has a tekin and your better in the infield and you have a havok just means one is better in different places on the track. I used to run a havok in TA over half the summer and was just as fast as most of the guys. If you have a problem with a manufacture and are slow go buy a tekin, Lrp, Crc than you will see there is not that much of a difference.
#20
even with the brushed motors how many novak esc's did we go thru, don't remember all the names, but my first was a cyclone with a purple label, then you had to get the green label, then the green label with the TC on it, not to mention the other manufactors esc's, stock was never stock.
I think the new timing features is a different animal though. It's a great technology but once again, the companies that make the equipment have found a way to make it expensive to be competitive.
To the poster that doesn't think all lipos and BL motors are created equal, fair enough, but these two pieces are far closer to that ideal now than they ever have been in the history of the hobby. I have been here since the beginning, watching stock class racing get turned into something other than it was intended to be over and over again.
#22
Brushed speed controllers offered many different adjustments such as drive and brake frequency. We also had motors that had different amounts of fixed timing in them. The current crop of speed controllers are offering this same type of adjustment, however it is now more noticeable than with the brushed motors we were running before, because of the way they produce power compared to their brushed counterparts.
I think that the issue we face with brushless technology is that because the technology is new for racing there are many areas of performance that manufactures are exploring, since there is little that can be tuned on brushless motor compared to it's brushed counterpart we are seeing the configuration changes happen at the speed controller rather than the motor.
I think that it is important we encourage manufactures to push the limits as it allows us see the performance that our race systems are capable of. Asking speed controller manufactures to not produce better equipment is analogous to asking car manufactures to not to create better handling vehicles because they are an unfair advantage to the current crop of cars on the market.
I can understand that it is rather frustrating to see speed controllers become "out of date" so quickly, however I also think that companies like Tekin and Castle have done it right. Perhaps what we should look at is how can we a consumers use our collective voice to tell manufactures that what we want are speed controllers that we can update ourselves vice having to buy hardware that is not out of date, but merely needs a firmware update.
Thoughts?
I think that the issue we face with brushless technology is that because the technology is new for racing there are many areas of performance that manufactures are exploring, since there is little that can be tuned on brushless motor compared to it's brushed counterpart we are seeing the configuration changes happen at the speed controller rather than the motor.
I think that it is important we encourage manufactures to push the limits as it allows us see the performance that our race systems are capable of. Asking speed controller manufactures to not produce better equipment is analogous to asking car manufactures to not to create better handling vehicles because they are an unfair advantage to the current crop of cars on the market.
I can understand that it is rather frustrating to see speed controllers become "out of date" so quickly, however I also think that companies like Tekin and Castle have done it right. Perhaps what we should look at is how can we a consumers use our collective voice to tell manufactures that what we want are speed controllers that we can update ourselves vice having to buy hardware that is not out of date, but merely needs a firmware update.
Thoughts?
#23
I am not calling for the abolition of the high tech speed control, just proposing the idea that there should be a "real" racing class with decent performance and level playing field technology rules. This is the goal of any motor limited racing class.
Stock electric racing was all but dead before brushless because it was more expensive to run than modified but modified was too fast for newer drivers to learn to race in. We now have a laundry list of under participated classes that's continuing to grow because every time a new stock/spec class comes out it gets blown up into something different within 6 months (remember when TC racing started?) all without adding any value to racing or the businesses that host it.
It's been frustrating to watch this same mistake happen over and over for the last 25 years.
#24
yes the esc with the boost/timing has been and still should be legal.
#25
Tech Elite
iTrader: (101)
I would only hope that this would be done for one class, a spec class at the local level at that. If it caught on at the national level then I hope it would eliminate a class. I still think that one of are biggest issues right now is having too many classes with very small entries in them. It really makes you wonder what value making an A main means when everyone at the track is in one themselves.
Steve
#27
Tech Addict
iTrader: (13)
Brushed speed controllers offered many different adjustments such as drive and brake frequency. We also had motors that had different amounts of fixed timing in them. The current crop of speed controllers are offering this same type of adjustment, however it is now more noticeable than with the brushed motors
I think that the issue we face with brushless technology is that because the technology is new for racing there are many areas of performance that manufactures are exploring
I think that it is important we encourage manufactures to push the limits
Thoughts?
I think that the issue we face with brushless technology is that because the technology is new for racing there are many areas of performance that manufactures are exploring
I think that it is important we encourage manufactures to push the limits
Thoughts?
#28
Tech Champion
iTrader: (103)
All of the top speed controls offer some sort of timing boost, whether they call it turbo or not. If Tekin comes out with new software that makes the increase more linear and stops calling it turbo, should that be illegal? Everyone at my track runs the RS and there are always a couple of guys with computers that are willing to assist with changes. Stop calling it STOCK also. The rules shouldn't separate the drivers, the qualifying should.
#29
Tech Elite
iTrader: (101)
For me personally, bring on the technology, let me have a sintered rotor and a new speed controll profile. That's what I like, but we are not all the same. I know in my area, probably 1/3rd of the racers would probably move towards a slower type class.
It's just something to think about at least. You said it yourself you didn't think enough people would want a very limited speed controller that couldn't be used in any other "normal" classes.
Steve
#30
Tech Champion
iTrader: (208)
All of the top speed controls offer some sort of timing boost, whether they call it turbo or not. If Tekin comes out with new software that makes the increase more linear and stops calling it turbo, should that be illegal? Everyone at my track runs the RS and there are always a couple of guys with computers that are willing to assist with changes. Stop calling it STOCK also. The rules shouldn't separate the drivers, the qualifying should.