Prototype ESC's - ROAR, Legal, Fair, Sportsmanship, Opinions?
09-15-2009, 09:59 PM
#361
Sounds like what gun manufacture's always say in court
; I never said that the drivers or the team did anything "wrong". But its the perception that CRC had an unfair advantage by using a product that nobody else has access to thats the real issue here. And of course its only a conicidence that CRC will now be selling these little gems; right? Sorry but I've been around abit too long to buy that.
09-15-2009, 11:52 PM
#364
Sorry to intrude,
After spending 45min in reading from page 1.
I still don't understand what is this all about???
Well to be fair, Prototype equipment may come out good and fast but haven't anyone notice that prototype equipment might come out bad too???
I did not took part in any of the races over at your region and do not know about the culture of racing there but hey doesn't all races go down to your own driving skills???
True better equipment do have a advantage but it's like if you are given the best equipment in the world are you able to maximize it to it's full potential.
I believe everyone here who took part in any race did not do a perfect consistant lap the whole race. Some place or someday one will screw up some place.
Think we all should think of ways to upgrade our own driving then to discuss about whose esc is better and should be ban.
No offence to anyone.
Just my 2cents worth.
After spending 45min in reading from page 1.
I still don't understand what is this all about???
Well to be fair, Prototype equipment may come out good and fast but haven't anyone notice that prototype equipment might come out bad too???
I did not took part in any of the races over at your region and do not know about the culture of racing there but hey doesn't all races go down to your own driving skills???
True better equipment do have a advantage but it's like if you are given the best equipment in the world are you able to maximize it to it's full potential.
I believe everyone here who took part in any race did not do a perfect consistant lap the whole race. Some place or someday one will screw up some place.
Think we all should think of ways to upgrade our own driving then to discuss about whose esc is better and should be ban.
No offence to anyone.
Just my 2cents worth.
09-16-2009, 01:35 AM
#365
Tech Addict
iTrader: (2)
No sponsored racers in spec classes above 10.5, regardless of 12 scale, WGT, touring, whatever. In those spec classes, the use of equipment that is available less than 60 days before the race is not allowed.
Mod = open, as it should be!
I see nothing wrong with what CRC did, it has only made us look at what might need to be addressed as far as rule changes that could make for a more even playing field for the amateur race that can't hang on to a mod 12 scale, touring car etc...
Just an idea.
Mod = open, as it should be!
I see nothing wrong with what CRC did, it has only made us look at what might need to be addressed as far as rule changes that could make for a more even playing field for the amateur race that can't hang on to a mod 12 scale, touring car etc...
Just an idea.
09-16-2009, 02:03 AM
#366
come on guys
FIGHT
:t ire:
FIGHT
:t ire:
09-16-2009, 02:30 AM
#367
LOL its getting like that....
Of course without testing new gear at the highest level we would never know if it was any good... I guess someone who just went out and brought a new x speedy would get upset because they didn't know that y speedy was about to be released and was better. Then all those people would be hear having a big sulk about that instead.
If sponsored drivers and their advantage with top end gear and prototype parts bother you then prove to those companies that you are better and then you will get those parts so others can winge about you.
Of course without testing new gear at the highest level we would never know if it was any good... I guess someone who just went out and brought a new x speedy would get upset because they didn't know that y speedy was about to be released and was better. Then all those people would be hear having a big sulk about that instead.
If sponsored drivers and their advantage with top end gear and prototype parts bother you then prove to those companies that you are better and then you will get those parts so others can winge about you.
09-16-2009, 04:49 AM
#368
Wow- this has been going on for years. Ever since Kevin Orton first at Delta and then the founder of Tekin introduced the first ESC( at the then WinterNationals in Orlando.Florida).I got one of the first production versions and as soon as I did Novak came out with theirs. What would be gained by saying what you see on the outside is whats on the inside(Who knows what is on the circuit boards)?
One reason i won't by LRP is because they were hiding something at a nationals (1995).They thought I was a spy or something because I was videoing them working on there ESC.They threw a towel over their equipment and waited for me to leave.After I left off came the towel and back to work. But as soon as I got close they stopped and the towel went on everthing.
Congrat to Frank he had his stuff out in the open.A big deal over something that has been going on for many years.
If your going to start here what about chassis.I for one have a new special chassis coming out one day for World GT.The orginal was out in 1999 and run in stock at the 1999 nationals(Minregg)- won the B main(stock) by a lap over everyone.Beat drivers that normally beat me at our state races.I've told people for years about this chassis. No I did not design it someone else did and maybe it will be made into a 200mm World Gt soon.Again Congrats to Frank Calandra (if your reading this Frank I bet you can't believe I'm saying this as I'm still ticked about the "Bullet").
One reason i won't by LRP is because they were hiding something at a nationals (1995).They thought I was a spy or something because I was videoing them working on there ESC.They threw a towel over their equipment and waited for me to leave.After I left off came the towel and back to work. But as soon as I got close they stopped and the towel went on everthing.
Congrat to Frank he had his stuff out in the open.A big deal over something that has been going on for many years.
If your going to start here what about chassis.I for one have a new special chassis coming out one day for World GT.The orginal was out in 1999 and run in stock at the 1999 nationals(Minregg)- won the B main(stock) by a lap over everyone.Beat drivers that normally beat me at our state races.I've told people for years about this chassis. No I did not design it someone else did and maybe it will be made into a 200mm World Gt soon.Again Congrats to Frank Calandra (if your reading this Frank I bet you can't believe I'm saying this as I'm still ticked about the "Bullet").
09-16-2009, 04:58 AM
#369
How come so many people want ROAR to do something about this, when the issue was at a non-ROAR event?
How many of the complainers are signed up for the ROAR Paved Nationals in Frederick?
How many skip out on the ROAR-sanctioned races in order to attend IIC or Snowbirds instead?
I think you need to take issue with those making/enforcing the rules at the particular events. NOT at those who are operating within the boundaries set forth by the event.
How many of the complainers are signed up for the ROAR Paved Nationals in Frederick?
How many skip out on the ROAR-sanctioned races in order to attend IIC or Snowbirds instead?
I think you need to take issue with those making/enforcing the rules at the particular events. NOT at those who are operating within the boundaries set forth by the event.
09-16-2009, 05:12 AM
#370
Speaking of firsts at a Nationals. Back in 1987 at the first 1/10th pan car ROAR Nationals Team Associated showed up with there prototype 10L. Just finished being made the night before.Tony Neisinger won the nationals with this car. Also HyperDrive was there with what got them started their belted gears.If you wanted some they gave them to you .On yes Calandra showed up at a nationals with his Class charger (bought one). How about Assiociated showing up at a Nationals In Plano Texas (1990's) with the only tire that would work in the hotels parking lot (Atlantic Gomies). Their drivers had trunks full of them and would not give them to anyone. I was spnsored by someone driving for them (for motors) and could not get them. " They're available Monday" , the day after the race. New era -old problems.
Thanks McSmooth - this was not a ROAR santioned RACE! Join ROAR and then complain ( member since 1979).
Thanks McSmooth - this was not a ROAR santioned RACE! Join ROAR and then complain ( member since 1979).
Last edited by BullFrog; 09-16-2009 at 05:30 AM.
09-16-2009, 05:18 AM
#371
Like McSmooth said it doesn't seem to be a ROAR issue since I believe they have such a rule to prevent this.
This kind of thread is the very reason why if I were a top racer I might be hesistant to run a prototype in a race. Real or not the perception is shenanigans so it takes away from any success you might have earned as a result of hard work and knowing how to drive. RC is such a fickle crowd.
09-16-2009, 05:37 AM
#372
How come so many people want ROAR to do something about this, when the issue was at a non-ROAR event?
How many of the complainers are signed up for the ROAR Paved Nationals in Frederick?
How many skip out on the ROAR-sanctioned races in order to attend IIC or Snowbirds instead?
I think you need to take issue with those making/enforcing the rules at the particular events. NOT at those who are operating within the boundaries set forth by the event.
How many of the complainers are signed up for the ROAR Paved Nationals in Frederick?
How many skip out on the ROAR-sanctioned races in order to attend IIC or Snowbirds instead?
I think you need to take issue with those making/enforcing the rules at the particular events. NOT at those who are operating within the boundaries set forth by the event.
True, Scotty is the overall promoter, organizer, and race director of the IIC Race, but I'm sure he expects that most people will be following the majority of the ROAR rules, but since he wants the freedom to run the race a little differently, he has decided not to involve ROAR directly with the race.
09-16-2009, 05:45 AM
#373
Just because the IIC was not a ROAR event, does not mean that many of the rules for the IIC were not adopted straight from the ROAR rulebook. The approved motor and battery list was based on ROAR, and ROAR adopted the 1s Rules after Scotty announced the IIC was going to be all LiPo, and even the weights for 12th scale were direct from ROAR. So trying to separate the two is not as easy as you'll are making it.
True, Scotty is the overall promoter, organizer, and race director of the IIC Race, but I'm sure he expects that most people will be following the majority of the ROAR rules, but since he wants the freedom to run the race a little differently, he has decided not to involve ROAR directly with the race.
True, Scotty is the overall promoter, organizer, and race director of the IIC Race, but I'm sure he expects that most people will be following the majority of the ROAR rules, but since he wants the freedom to run the race a little differently, he has decided not to involve ROAR directly with the race.
They want to use the ROAR Rulebook, but don't want to sanction the race.
Once again, it's NOT ROAR's problem. Can ROAR show up at IIC and tell Scotty how to run tech at his event? Nope.
Does ROAR have a system of only seeding 9 cars in the A, and bumping in the fastest guy from the lower mains? Nope.
This would be like the new United Football League using 95% of the NFL rulebook, and then the UFL players blaming the NFL for something they don't like.
If Scotty wants the "freedom" to do what he wants, then the racers need to hold him responsible, and not ROAR, for any issues that come up at HIS event.
09-16-2009, 06:03 AM
#374
Just because Scotty bases his rules on the ROAR rulebook, does not make the situation a ROAR situation. It is an IIC situation PERIOD. This is a one sided problem, with ROAR having no part of. Now, it would behoove ROAR to keep an eye on the outcome of the issue and react to the best of it's abilities.
If this was a ROAR sanctioned race ( Which is was not ), then your claim holds water.
It is easy to separate the two. Scotty chose to base his rules on ROAR ( because it is easy, and the rules are fair ). It is smart for him to base his rules off ROAR rules, because a vast majority of races ( from club to Nats) are running ROAR rules, and that gives him a greater racers base. Look at it this way, if Disney World wanted to hold a stock car race at the track in Orlando, and they advertised NASCAR rules, but NASCAR had NOTHING to do with the race, how can you hold NASCAR liable for rules issues ?
You can't, is the answer, plus if Disney did not pay for using the NASCAR name, then there would be a nice lawsuit...
If this was a ROAR sanctioned race ( Which is was not ), then your claim holds water.
It is easy to separate the two. Scotty chose to base his rules on ROAR ( because it is easy, and the rules are fair ). It is smart for him to base his rules off ROAR rules, because a vast majority of races ( from club to Nats) are running ROAR rules, and that gives him a greater racers base. Look at it this way, if Disney World wanted to hold a stock car race at the track in Orlando, and they advertised NASCAR rules, but NASCAR had NOTHING to do with the race, how can you hold NASCAR liable for rules issues ?
You can't, is the answer, plus if Disney did not pay for using the NASCAR name, then there would be a nice lawsuit...
Just because the IIC was not a ROAR event, does not mean that many of the rules for the IIC were not adopted straight from the ROAR rulebook. The approved motor and battery list was based on ROAR, and ROAR adopted the 1s Rules after Scotty announced the IIC was going to be all LiPo, and even the weights for 12th scale were direct from ROAR. So trying to separate the two is not as easy as you'll are making it.
True, Scotty is the overall promoter, organizer, and race director of the IIC Race, but I'm sure he expects that most people will be following the majority of the ROAR rules, but since he wants the freedom to run the race a little differently, he has decided not to involve ROAR directly with the race.
True, Scotty is the overall promoter, organizer, and race director of the IIC Race, but I'm sure he expects that most people will be following the majority of the ROAR rules, but since he wants the freedom to run the race a little differently, he has decided not to involve ROAR directly with the race.