XERUN V2.0 Brushless ESC discussion thread.
06-26-2010, 12:49 AM
#991
So why would one need an expensive ESC like Tekin RS Pro in the touring car stock class if your claim is true. Extra output current definately give advantage, otherwise everyone would be running a 60A ezrun.
06-26-2010, 12:59 AM
#992
[QUOTE=yobouno;7592211]it's actually simple science. you have something that have an output of 120A. it will need more current to provide the output. The power might not be transfered to the motor, but it will end up as heat. therefore drain your battery in the form of heat.
I might not be an expert in RC, but I know my physics.
Also to counter your arguement, why would one need an expensive ESC like Tekin RS Pro in the touring car stock class if your claim is true. Extra output current definately give advantage, otherwise everyone would be running a 60A ezrun.[/QUOTE
I'm an electrician and your full of it. The ammount of current drawn will be directly related to the power drawn by the motor not the esc output. Ohms law dictates this a=p/v where p is power drawn and no your motor doesn't put out the same power at quater throttle as it does at full. But you know
physics so you should know that already.
I might not be an expert in RC, but I know my physics.
Also to counter your arguement, why would one need an expensive ESC like Tekin RS Pro in the touring car stock class if your claim is true. Extra output current definately give advantage, otherwise everyone would be running a 60A ezrun.[/QUOTE
I'm an electrician and your full of it. The ammount of current drawn will be directly related to the power drawn by the motor not the esc output. Ohms law dictates this a=p/v where p is power drawn and no your motor doesn't put out the same power at quater throttle as it does at full. But you know
physics so you should know that already.
06-26-2010, 01:04 AM
#993
Under your analogy a 21.5 turn motor will drain the battery just as quick as a 3.5 motor and the ESC will get just as hot and the battery will be drained just as quick using a 21.5?
The current draw is dependant on the motor used .... not the amp rating of the ESC. In fact generally the higher amp ESC's also have a lower internal resistance which generally equates to slightly better power transfer and I would assume lower heat.
All I was getting at is that the information you gave was very misleading to the end user
06-26-2010, 01:07 AM
#994
A lot of stock racers do not use the RS Pro. They use the RS which is lower rated. Again it is related to the motor used. And the new Extreme Stock ESC being released by Hobbywing is only a 60A as well
Racers only pick the higher rated ESC (RS Pro) if they think they might end up using a faster, higher drain motor
06-26-2010, 01:09 AM
#995
I'm an electrician and your full of it. The ammount of current drawn will be directly related to the power drawn by the motor not the esc output. Ohms law dictates this a=p/v where p is power drawn and no your motor doesn't put out the same power at quater throttle as it does at full. But you know
physics so you should know that already.
Also this does not explain why your motor runs hotter on a more powerful ESC as well. Your argument using ohms law does not really applies. It is all about the ESC and how the ESC handles the current output and what it does to the motor. Let's make it simpler. Let just talk at full throttle.
06-26-2010, 01:14 AM
#996
As I added above ....
Under your analogy a 21.5 turn motor will drain the battery just as quick as a 3.5 motor and the ESC will get just as hot and the battery will be drained just as quick using a 21.5?
The current draw is dependant on the motor used .... not the amp rating of the ESC. In fact generally the higher amp ESC's also have a lower internal resistance which generally equates to slightly better power transfer and I would assume lower heat.
All I was getting at is that the information you gave was very misleading to the end user
Under your analogy a 21.5 turn motor will drain the battery just as quick as a 3.5 motor and the ESC will get just as hot and the battery will be drained just as quick using a 21.5?
The current draw is dependant on the motor used .... not the amp rating of the ESC. In fact generally the higher amp ESC's also have a lower internal resistance which generally equates to slightly better power transfer and I would assume lower heat.
All I was getting at is that the information you gave was very misleading to the end user
Also from the point you mentioned, does that mean, all 17.5T motor are not made equal?
06-26-2010, 01:28 AM
#997
OK, your point is true in that sense. But your talking about the draw required. I want to know if given 2 same motor, 1 running 60A and the other one running 120A. at full throttle, wouldn't the ESC be pushing 120A to the motor? Which at that time will end up as heat because the motor doesn't need that much current to run it.
Also from the point you mentioned, does that mean, all 17.5T motor are not made equal?
Also from the point you mentioned, does that mean, all 17.5T motor are not made equal?
Dont understand your 17.5 question. Most 17.5's are designed around a kV rating ... that is rpm per volt) so their performance is similar
06-26-2010, 01:33 AM
#998
first law of physics, energy input = energy output. So it has to go out in some other form. Still doesn't explain why ppl need super expensive high current ESC to run fast on standard 17.5T stock class. software programming is one thing, but surely the additional current plays a part, otherwise why do you need it?
Also this does not explain why your motor runs hotter on a more powerful ESC as well. Your argument using ohms law does not really applies. It is all about the ESC and how the ESC handles the current output and what it does to the motor. Let's make it simpler. Let just talk at full throttle.
Also this does not explain why your motor runs hotter on a more powerful ESC as well. Your argument using ohms law does not really applies. It is all about the ESC and how the ESC handles the current output and what it does to the motor. Let's make it simpler. Let just talk at full throttle.
Yes Ohms law applies, it always applies when dealing with electricity: Amps drawn= Power needed/Voltage available. End of story
OK, your point is true in that sense. But your talking about the draw required. I want to know if given 2 same motor, 1 running 60A and the other one running 120A. at full throttle, wouldn't the ESC be pushing 120A to the motor? Which at that time will end up as heat because the motor doesn't need that much current to run it.
Also from the point you mentioned, does that mean, all 17.5T motor are not made equal?
Also from the point you mentioned, does that mean, all 17.5T motor are not made equal?
06-26-2010, 01:36 AM
#999
Having discussion is how I learn, I hope you guys understand.
As to my question. say a 17.5T motor, as you said they are designed around the same kV rating. Gearing aside, would a 60A ESC give equal performance to a 120A ESC?
From my observation at the club I go to, the ones with higher power esc EG ones with RS pro, do have to cool their motor more than those who runs a low power ESC. Assuming they are running the same gearing.
Hences my conclusion, if you're wasting all the extra energy on heat, the waste gotta come from somewhere.
06-26-2010, 01:41 AM
#1000
that's newton's first law. For every action there is an equal reaction.
Anyway, I'm still confused as to why I've spent thousands of dollars just to try to keep up with the rest of the guys running a stock class motor.
I know it could be gearing. But everyone is running RS pro or LRP SPX or SXX, and running an xerun 60A just can't keep up with them on straight line.
Anyway, I'm still confused as to why I've spent thousands of dollars just to try to keep up with the rest of the guys running a stock class motor.
I know it could be gearing. But everyone is running RS pro or LRP SPX or SXX, and running an xerun 60A just can't keep up with them on straight line.
06-26-2010, 01:45 AM
#1001
No not all motors are designed and built the same. Differences in copper quality, the number of strands of wire and the diameter of these strands that are used to form the coils can cause massive differences in internal resistance thus affecting the ammount of current drawn. Ohms law again Amps= Volts/Resistance. Less resistance more current drawn.
06-26-2010, 01:48 AM
#1002
Firstly, thank you for enlighten me. It's very hard to learn in my club because everyone is trying to do 1 up from the other, so you either end up being the sheep copying what other does.
Having discussion is how I learn, I hope you guys understand.
As to my question. say a 17.5T motor, as you said they are designed around the same kV rating. Gearing aside, would a 60A ESC give equal performance to a 120A ESC?
From my observation at the club I go to, the ones with higher power esc EG ones with RS pro, do have to cool their motor more than those who runs a low power ESC. Assuming they are running the same gearing.
Hences my conclusion, if you're wasting all the extra energy on heat, the waste gotta come from somewhere.
Having discussion is how I learn, I hope you guys understand.
As to my question. say a 17.5T motor, as you said they are designed around the same kV rating. Gearing aside, would a 60A ESC give equal performance to a 120A ESC?
From my observation at the club I go to, the ones with higher power esc EG ones with RS pro, do have to cool their motor more than those who runs a low power ESC. Assuming they are running the same gearing.
Hences my conclusion, if you're wasting all the extra energy on heat, the waste gotta come from somewhere.
In recent time Hobbywinmg has released a firmware that means the HW ESC has dynamic timing like the Tekin and LRP. Owners of HW 60A ESC's will now be able to keep up. In fact in Sydney recently on the large Moorebank a racer using a 60A HW ESC won the 10.5 class so he was hardly at a disadvantage
06-26-2010, 01:53 AM
#1003
THe faster guys with 17.5 will most likely have different ESC profiles. The fact that they are running hotter as you say would generally mean that they are running more timing (assuming equal gearing and same ESC)
In recent time Hobbywinmg has released a firmware that means the HW ESC has dynamic timing like the Tekin and LRP. Owners of HW 60A ESC's will now be able to keep up. In fact in Sydney recently on the large Moorebank a racer using a 60A HW ESC won the 10.5 class so he was hardly at a disadvantage
In recent time Hobbywinmg has released a firmware that means the HW ESC has dynamic timing like the Tekin and LRP. Owners of HW 60A ESC's will now be able to keep up. In fact in Sydney recently on the large Moorebank a racer using a 60A HW ESC won the 10.5 class so he was hardly at a disadvantage
06-26-2010, 02:34 AM
#1005
At the end of the day were racing TOYS for little cups.