SMC 4000/25C/3.7V single cell Hardcase pack.
12-01-2008, 07:00 AM
#241
... out here there is no push to slow 12th down so I can't see people switching from nimh until there is an alternative for 4 cell thats competetive with people still running NiMh.... I have a 3.5 from 5 cell mod that I no longer use so I might pick up one of the packs and do some testing
Stock and Pro/superstock are fine speeds that most can control and those that can't probably would have a hard time slower as well.I understand we can't have the perfect solution for every track. I was asked to put less capacity in this pack by Josh Cyrul as he told me the speeds now are way to fast. If you the racers like going this fast then 4 cells are the way to go. The problem is that it will be getting harder to find fresh suc-c race cells as Lipos keep taking over.
Already the pack is so thick it won't fit in the SpeedMerchant with stock shock configuration what can be done when the demand for more mAH happens (you know it will) can the pack be made in wedge shape so the rear is a little higher than the front so it follows the line of the shock more closely or is it possible to form a valley along the center line.
I would like to see a VIABLE solution to the NiMh, but I fear some may be willing to settle for a half ass fix now than ride it out and see what is possible. Lipo's have only been legal in 1/10 for less than a year, and with only one suppliers attempt at this it doesn't seem likely 2009 will see it in 1/12. I would prefer to give the industry as a whole 2009, and if needed 2010 to develop a solution for 2011, and not a band-aid now that will change again later.
12-01-2008, 03:23 PM
#243
We know this works and is exactly equal. All we need is more people running them and reporting their findings in order to encourage more people to buy them and make this movement happen.
12-01-2008, 03:36 PM
#244
i will report my findings after i put it on khoff on saturday
12-01-2008, 03:47 PM
#245
12-01-2008, 03:55 PM
#246
friday night son!
12-01-2008, 04:23 PM
#247
12-01-2008, 07:24 PM
#249
I completely agree, Mod may need slowed down, a winding limit seems much easier to do than a different battery, speed control sized boosters and Rx packs that 'sneek'voltage to places it ain't supposed to Stock and Pro/superstock are fine speeds that most can control and those that can't probably would have a hard time slower as well.
If it doesn't work at every track (or at least the majority) then how can we expect it to be adopted into the rules. And how complicated are the rules going to be with different motor/battery combinations in the same class.
Already the pack is so thick it won't fit in the SpeedMerchant with stock shock configuration what can be done when the demand for more mAH happens (you know it will) can the pack be made in wedge shape so the rear is a little higher than the front so it follows the line of the shock more closely or is it possible to form a valley along the center line.
I would like to see a VIABLE solution to the NiMh, but I fear some may be willing to settle for a half ass fix now than ride it out and see what is possible. Lipo's have only been legal in 1/10 for less than a year, and with only one suppliers attempt at this it doesn't seem likely 2009 will see it in 1/12. I would prefer to give the industry as a whole 2009, and if needed 2010 to develop a solution for 2011, and not a band-aid now that will change again later.
Stock and Pro/superstock are fine speeds that most can control and those that can't probably would have a hard time slower as well.If it doesn't work at every track (or at least the majority) then how can we expect it to be adopted into the rules. And how complicated are the rules going to be with different motor/battery combinations in the same class.
Already the pack is so thick it won't fit in the SpeedMerchant with stock shock configuration what can be done when the demand for more mAH happens (you know it will) can the pack be made in wedge shape so the rear is a little higher than the front so it follows the line of the shock more closely or is it possible to form a valley along the center line.
I would like to see a VIABLE solution to the NiMh, but I fear some may be willing to settle for a half ass fix now than ride it out and see what is possible. Lipo's have only been legal in 1/10 for less than a year, and with only one suppliers attempt at this it doesn't seem likely 2009 will see it in 1/12. I would prefer to give the industry as a whole 2009, and if needed 2010 to develop a solution for 2011, and not a band-aid now that will change again later.
As one of the guys that has run mod 12th at Cleveland for the past few years (except this year) I can say first hand that mod is too fast. Many of the top racers will tell you the same thing.
It's not hard to raise the shock on the Speedmerchant, or run the battery on one side of a t-bar car (not that there are very many left). And a "speed control sized booster"? The booster that I bought is smaller than my old receiver pack. Also, don't think for a minute that we weren't back charging into the main pack before with 4 cell. We were and it wasn't an issue.
Single cell is nothing different than what we did back in the day when we went to 4 cell from 6 cell. Lower voltage isn't a "bandaid" it's been used before and it worked for a very long time. So, limit the size of the cells and go racing.
Maybe in a year or so we'll have things figured out to a point where the class can be changed. It won't happen overnight but neither did 2 cell LiPo for onroad and dirt.
12-02-2008, 07:20 AM
#250
Tech Rookie
I am running an associated rc10r5 and been looking for a solution to this whole battery situation (brushless 13.5, 95T/35T)
I don't want to have to worry about finding good sub-c cells and deal with the maintenance.. so before SMC came out with the single cell lipo, I made my own solution..
I tool a normal saddle pack (4400, 25c) and rewire it from series to parallel (8800, 50c) and tape one pack in the back under the shock area and one in front between the servo and the esc.. I was able to run for 45 minutes between charges and the car weight 980g
It was the most fun I had and I just kept charging the batteries..
THEN.. smc came out with these single cell lipo and I had to get them.. I picked up a few and changed over..
the pack is really nicely designed, fit in the grooves nicely and charged slightly above stated capacity.. it clear the shock just fine and I think they could have went with a large pack if needed on this chassis..
weight drop from 980g to 823g (woooh) and the car was faster..
----------------
the comment about wedge shape lipos.. lipos are made with cells that are flat.. do you propose that they make smaller lipo cells for every layer to get this wedge shape?
it would increase production cost, which ultimately would push up the cost of the pack.. I, for one, don't want to pay more for a pack because of some design issue :-P prehaps the battery manufacturer can talk to the chassis guys and sort out a standard clearance so that all packs will fit in all chassis
-joe
I don't want to have to worry about finding good sub-c cells and deal with the maintenance.. so before SMC came out with the single cell lipo, I made my own solution..
I tool a normal saddle pack (4400, 25c) and rewire it from series to parallel (8800, 50c) and tape one pack in the back under the shock area and one in front between the servo and the esc.. I was able to run for 45 minutes between charges and the car weight 980g
It was the most fun I had and I just kept charging the batteries..
THEN.. smc came out with these single cell lipo and I had to get them.. I picked up a few and changed over..
the pack is really nicely designed, fit in the grooves nicely and charged slightly above stated capacity.. it clear the shock just fine and I think they could have went with a large pack if needed on this chassis..
weight drop from 980g to 823g (woooh) and the car was faster..
----------------
the comment about wedge shape lipos.. lipos are made with cells that are flat.. do you propose that they make smaller lipo cells for every layer to get this wedge shape?
it would increase production cost, which ultimately would push up the cost of the pack.. I, for one, don't want to pay more for a pack because of some design issue :-P prehaps the battery manufacturer can talk to the chassis guys and sort out a standard clearance so that all packs will fit in all chassis
-joe
12-02-2008, 07:21 AM
#251
Tech Rookie
for kicks, I also made an adapter that wired the two 4400 back into series.. and the car rocket down the straight like 3.5T :-P
-joe
-joe
12-03-2008, 10:28 AM
#252
Tekin RS
The RS seems to have some issues on the low voltage. I plan to try mine this Friday. I picked up a killer deal on a Sphere for backup, so far it seems to do OK. I only think the RS' advantages are the ease of programming and footprint. If I have to use a Sphere, I think I'll be just as good off.
I am not so sure the Tekin has issues with low voltage. In my last go around of testing with my last test pack, I could not get it to run 8 min. without falling off with either the Tekin or the LRP. I see people have been getting the LRP and Novak to run 8 min. without falling off so I guess I just need to do some more testing with a full on production pack (my last test pack was not full on, it was a 3700mah, whereas the production pack is 4000mah).
Thanks, and glad to hear all the good testing results everyone seems to be getting.
Donny
12-03-2008, 10:33 AM
#253
Tech Master
iTrader: (40)
Hi,
I am not so sure the Tekin has issues with low voltage. In my last go around of testing with my last test pack, I could not get it to run 8 min. without falling off with either the Tekin or the LRP. I see people have been getting the LRP and Novak to run 8 min. without falling off so I guess I just need to do some more testing with a full on production pack (my last test pack was not full on, it was a 3700mah, whereas the production pack is 4000mah).
Thanks, and glad to hear all the good testing results everyone seems to be getting.
Donny
I am not so sure the Tekin has issues with low voltage. In my last go around of testing with my last test pack, I could not get it to run 8 min. without falling off with either the Tekin or the LRP. I see people have been getting the LRP and Novak to run 8 min. without falling off so I guess I just need to do some more testing with a full on production pack (my last test pack was not full on, it was a 3700mah, whereas the production pack is 4000mah).
Thanks, and glad to hear all the good testing results everyone seems to be getting.
Donny
12-03-2008, 10:37 AM
#254
The Tekin RS does work with this single cell. We have team drivers that are testing right now with the SMC single cell packs that are hard at work doing so.
I think for this voltage level we may see some different throttle profiles for it.
The low voltage is what's the hardest to deal with. The receiver is going to shut off long before we do.
I believe that Danny made the pack the size it is to fit the majority of the cars that are out there, which was smart.
By doing this he's thrown all esc and electronics manufactureres to re visit a voltage that we didn't plan on using. Tekin strives to be revolutionary and this will be no different.
For those that are running the RS and are looking for more runtime you can always use the punch control to get more out of it. This will not effect the top speed and will smooth out the throttle as well.
I think for this voltage level we may see some different throttle profiles for it.
The low voltage is what's the hardest to deal with. The receiver is going to shut off long before we do.
I believe that Danny made the pack the size it is to fit the majority of the cars that are out there, which was smart.
By doing this he's thrown all esc and electronics manufactureres to re visit a voltage that we didn't plan on using. Tekin strives to be revolutionary and this will be no different.
For those that are running the RS and are looking for more runtime you can always use the punch control to get more out of it. This will not effect the top speed and will smooth out the throttle as well.
12-03-2008, 04:18 PM
#255
We have been watching this develop and will be making some software updates to get maximum performance in this application. Currently the RS is designed to keep the receiver alive in 4cell and provide max performance without needing a receiver pack. With the addition of a receiver pack we can pull harder and longer on the battery.
For current results you are seeing it makes some sense. Red wire in / red wire out can trick our low voltage control a little. That is something we can adjust for this application with a new setting in the hotwire. Our speedo may be too smart for its own good and we just need to teach it a few new tricks.
FYI The receiver pack is not being used to drive the motor or charge the motor battery. It is only running the brains of the speedo, receiver and servo. Not sure where any extra missing juice would be going….. yet.
The red wire in is bad if the receiver pack is more than 5 cells or less than 6V. We will try to charge the receiver pack with the BEC if it is lower than 6v. If it is 7V or higher we are getting force fed more than we want. This will be a rare application where we will want the red wire in to make it work the best as long as the receiver pack is an acceptable voltage, after we make a few changes.
I assure you that no other controllers have any technical advantage over the RS. A few tweaks for this new application and a quick software update and we will be as good as any and likely better than most. We already spent so much time and effort getting the best performance possible in 4 cell, and low voltage in general, that we are ready for this challenge.
Tekin Prez
For current results you are seeing it makes some sense. Red wire in / red wire out can trick our low voltage control a little. That is something we can adjust for this application with a new setting in the hotwire. Our speedo may be too smart for its own good and we just need to teach it a few new tricks.
FYI The receiver pack is not being used to drive the motor or charge the motor battery. It is only running the brains of the speedo, receiver and servo. Not sure where any extra missing juice would be going….. yet.
The red wire in is bad if the receiver pack is more than 5 cells or less than 6V. We will try to charge the receiver pack with the BEC if it is lower than 6v. If it is 7V or higher we are getting force fed more than we want. This will be a rare application where we will want the red wire in to make it work the best as long as the receiver pack is an acceptable voltage, after we make a few changes.
I assure you that no other controllers have any technical advantage over the RS. A few tweaks for this new application and a quick software update and we will be as good as any and likely better than most. We already spent so much time and effort getting the best performance possible in 4 cell, and low voltage in general, that we are ready for this challenge.
Tekin Prez
Last edited by Tekin Prez; 12-03-2008 at 10:05 PM.