R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-01-2008, 08:00 AM   #241
Tech Master
 
miller tyme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,712
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
... out here there is no push to slow 12th down so I can't see people switching from nimh until there is an alternative for 4 cell thats competetive with people still running NiMh.... I have a 3.5 from 5 cell mod that I no longer use so I might pick up one of the packs and do some testing
I completely agree, Mod may need slowed down, a winding limit seems much easier to do than a different battery, speed control sized boosters and Rx packs that 'sneek'voltage to places it ain't supposed to Stock and Pro/superstock are fine speeds that most can control and those that can't probably would have a hard time slower as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
I understand we can't have the perfect solution for every track. I was asked to put less capacity in this pack by Josh Cyrul as he told me the speeds now are way to fast. If you the racers like going this fast then 4 cells are the way to go. The problem is that it will be getting harder to find fresh suc-c race cells as Lipos keep taking over.
If it doesn't work at every track (or at least the majority) then how can we expect it to be adopted into the rules. And how complicated are the rules going to be with different motor/battery combinations in the same class.
Already the pack is so thick it won't fit in the SpeedMerchant with stock shock configuration what can be done when the demand for more mAH happens (you know it will) can the pack be made in wedge shape so the rear is a little higher than the front so it follows the line of the shock more closely or is it possible to form a valley along the center line.

I would like to see a VIABLE solution to the NiMh, but I fear some may be willing to settle for a half ass fix now than ride it out and see what is possible. Lipo's have only been legal in 1/10 for less than a year, and with only one suppliers attempt at this it doesn't seem likely 2009 will see it in 1/12. I would prefer to give the industry as a whole 2009, and if needed 2010 to develop a solution for 2011, and not a band-aid now that will change again later.
__________________
Ken Miller
RCTarget - Capricorn - Pro Level RC - MAX Power - Maxima Fuel - EA Motorsorts - TQ Wire

LONG LIVE OPEN MODIFIED
miller tyme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 04:18 PM   #242
Tech Master
 
sportpak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ft Wayne, IN
Posts: 1,314
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

thread killer....
__________________
-Tamiya TA05-R - Tamiya M05 - Summit Raceway Ft. Wayne, IN

www.summitrcraceway.com
sportpak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 04:23 PM   #243
Tech Elite
 
KHoff7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,166
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

We know this works and is exactly equal. All we need is more people running them and reporting their findings in order to encourage more people to buy them and make this movement happen.
__________________
Awesomatix USA / Middle River Hobbies / Sweep / Psycho Cells Racing
Karl Hoffmeister
KHoff7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 04:36 PM   #244
Tech Fanatic
 
losithrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 791
Default

i will report my findings after i put it on khoff on saturday
__________________
ONE THINGS FOR SURE ABOUT THE STINGER, NOTHINGS FOR SURE!
losithrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 04:47 PM   #245
Tech Elite
 
KHoff7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,166
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by losithrasher View Post
i will report my findings after i put it on khoff on saturday
Whens the r5 comming?
__________________
Awesomatix USA / Middle River Hobbies / Sweep / Psycho Cells Racing
Karl Hoffmeister
KHoff7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 04:55 PM   #246
Tech Fanatic
 
losithrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 791
Default

friday night son!
__________________
ONE THINGS FOR SURE ABOUT THE STINGER, NOTHINGS FOR SURE!
losithrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 05:23 PM   #247
Tech Elite
 
KHoff7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,166
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by losithrasher View Post
friday night son!
I am seriously interested in looking at it.
__________________
Awesomatix USA / Middle River Hobbies / Sweep / Psycho Cells Racing
Karl Hoffmeister
KHoff7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 05:37 PM   #248
Tech Fanatic
 
losithrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 791
Default

rad!
__________________
ONE THINGS FOR SURE ABOUT THE STINGER, NOTHINGS FOR SURE!
losithrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 08:24 PM   #249
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 649
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
I completely agree, Mod may need slowed down, a winding limit seems much easier to do than a different battery, speed control sized boosters and Rx packs that 'sneek'voltage to places it ain't supposed to Stock and Pro/superstock are fine speeds that most can control and those that can't probably would have a hard time slower as well.

If it doesn't work at every track (or at least the majority) then how can we expect it to be adopted into the rules. And how complicated are the rules going to be with different motor/battery combinations in the same class.
Already the pack is so thick it won't fit in the SpeedMerchant with stock shock configuration what can be done when the demand for more mAH happens (you know it will) can the pack be made in wedge shape so the rear is a little higher than the front so it follows the line of the shock more closely or is it possible to form a valley along the center line.

I would like to see a VIABLE solution to the NiMh, but I fear some may be willing to settle for a half ass fix now than ride it out and see what is possible. Lipo's have only been legal in 1/10 for less than a year, and with only one suppliers attempt at this it doesn't seem likely 2009 will see it in 1/12. I would prefer to give the industry as a whole 2009, and if needed 2010 to develop a solution for 2011, and not a band-aid now that will change again later.

As one of the guys that has run mod 12th at Cleveland for the past few years (except this year) I can say first hand that mod is too fast. Many of the top racers will tell you the same thing.

It's not hard to raise the shock on the Speedmerchant, or run the battery on one side of a t-bar car (not that there are very many left). And a "speed control sized booster"? The booster that I bought is smaller than my old receiver pack. Also, don't think for a minute that we weren't back charging into the main pack before with 4 cell. We were and it wasn't an issue.

Single cell is nothing different than what we did back in the day when we went to 4 cell from 6 cell. Lower voltage isn't a "bandaid" it's been used before and it worked for a very long time. So, limit the size of the cells and go racing.

Maybe in a year or so we'll have things figured out to a point where the class can be changed. It won't happen overnight but neither did 2 cell LiPo for onroad and dirt.
Fred_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 08:20 AM   #250
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Default

I am running an associated rc10r5 and been looking for a solution to this whole battery situation (brushless 13.5, 95T/35T)

I don't want to have to worry about finding good sub-c cells and deal with the maintenance.. so before SMC came out with the single cell lipo, I made my own solution..

I tool a normal saddle pack (4400, 25c) and rewire it from series to parallel (8800, 50c) and tape one pack in the back under the shock area and one in front between the servo and the esc.. I was able to run for 45 minutes between charges and the car weight 980g

It was the most fun I had and I just kept charging the batteries..

THEN.. smc came out with these single cell lipo and I had to get them.. I picked up a few and changed over..

the pack is really nicely designed, fit in the grooves nicely and charged slightly above stated capacity.. it clear the shock just fine and I think they could have went with a large pack if needed on this chassis..

weight drop from 980g to 823g (woooh) and the car was faster..

----------------

the comment about wedge shape lipos.. lipos are made with cells that are flat.. do you propose that they make smaller lipo cells for every layer to get this wedge shape?

it would increase production cost, which ultimately would push up the cost of the pack.. I, for one, don't want to pay more for a pack because of some design issue :-P prehaps the battery manufacturer can talk to the chassis guys and sort out a standard clearance so that all packs will fit in all chassis

-joe
sillypuddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 08:21 AM   #251
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Default

for kicks, I also made an adapter that wired the two 4400 back into series.. and the car rocket down the straight like 3.5T :-P

-joe
sillypuddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:28 AM   #252
Tech Adept
 
360rcspeedway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 131
Default Tekin RS

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportpak View Post
The RS seems to have some issues on the low voltage. I plan to try mine this Friday. I picked up a killer deal on a Sphere for backup, so far it seems to do OK. I only think the RS' advantages are the ease of programming and footprint. If I have to use a Sphere, I think I'll be just as good off.
Hi,
I am not so sure the Tekin has issues with low voltage. In my last go around of testing with my last test pack, I could not get it to run 8 min. without falling off with either the Tekin or the LRP. I see people have been getting the LRP and Novak to run 8 min. without falling off so I guess I just need to do some more testing with a full on production pack (my last test pack was not full on, it was a 3700mah, whereas the production pack is 4000mah).

Thanks, and glad to hear all the good testing results everyone seems to be getting.

Donny
360rcspeedway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:33 AM   #253
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,859
Trader Rating: 40 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to brians11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 360rcspeedway View Post
Hi,
I am not so sure the Tekin has issues with low voltage. In my last go around of testing with my last test pack, I could not get it to run 8 min. without falling off with either the Tekin or the LRP. I see people have been getting the LRP and Novak to run 8 min. without falling off so I guess I just need to do some more testing with a full on production pack (my last test pack was not full on, it was a 3700mah, whereas the production pack is 4000mah).

Thanks, and glad to hear all the good testing results everyone seems to be getting.

Donny
Donny, When you say falling off, how much of a difference in lap time are you seeing with this? I noticed 1-2 tenths drop over the 8 minute run when I ran it last weekend.
brians11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:37 AM   #254
Team Tekin
 
Randy_Pike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Norcal
Posts: 9,702
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to Randy_Pike
Default

The Tekin RS does work with this single cell. We have team drivers that are testing right now with the SMC single cell packs that are hard at work doing so.

I think for this voltage level we may see some different throttle profiles for it.

The low voltage is what's the hardest to deal with. The receiver is going to shut off long before we do.

I believe that Danny made the pack the size it is to fit the majority of the cars that are out there, which was smart.

By doing this he's thrown all esc and electronics manufactureres to re visit a voltage that we didn't plan on using. Tekin strives to be revolutionary and this will be no different.

For those that are running the RS and are looking for more runtime you can always use the punch control to get more out of it. This will not effect the top speed and will smooth out the throttle as well.
__________________
"Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle." Abraham Lincoln

Tekin,Protek,A-Main Hobbies,JConcepts,Avid RC,Yokomo,MIP,SikLidz,FactoryRC, www.randypikerc.com
Randy_Pike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 05:18 PM   #255
Team Tekin
 
Tekin Prez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,047
Default

We have been watching this develop and will be making some software updates to get maximum performance in this application. Currently the RS is designed to keep the receiver alive in 4cell and provide max performance without needing a receiver pack. With the addition of a receiver pack we can pull harder and longer on the battery.

For current results you are seeing it makes some sense. Red wire in / red wire out can trick our low voltage control a little. That is something we can adjust for this application with a new setting in the hotwire. Our speedo may be too smart for its own good and we just need to teach it a few new tricks.

FYI The receiver pack is not being used to drive the motor or charge the motor battery. It is only running the brains of the speedo, receiver and servo. Not sure where any extra missing juice would be going….. yet.

The red wire in is bad if the receiver pack is more than 5 cells or less than 6V. We will try to charge the receiver pack with the BEC if it is lower than 6v. If it is 7V or higher we are getting force fed more than we want. This will be a rare application where we will want the red wire in to make it work the best as long as the receiver pack is an acceptable voltage, after we make a few changes.

I assure you that no other controllers have any technical advantage over the RS. A few tweaks for this new application and a quick software update and we will be as good as any and likely better than most. We already spent so much time and effort getting the best performance possible in 4 cell, and low voltage in general, that we are ready for this challenge.

Tekin Prez

Last edited by Tekin Prez; 12-03-2008 at 11:05 PM.
Tekin Prez is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The future of 1/12 scale Roland S Electric On-Road 1004 06-16-2017 02:04 PM
SMC 5700mAh 25C Single Cell Lipo Danny/SMC Electric On-Road 352 05-14-2009 04:03 AM
Trackside 1/12th scale racing Ike Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 41 03-31-2009 11:42 AM
ROAR 1/12 weight limit miller tyme Electric On-Road 171 01-09-2009 04:14 PM
Why choose LiPo? wingman2 Electric On-Road 16 12-17-2008 06:51 PM
1/12 lipo the mighty thor Electric On-Road 7 12-07-2008 03:01 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:43 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net