Xray XB2 2WD Buggy Thread
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#917
Tech Champion
iTrader: (33)
Pretty interesting book here worth referencing:
https://books.google.com/books?id=uQ...pg=PA9&lpg=PA9
Cutting pounds out of wheels and axles isn't new, but the idea is still a good one...believe it or not this type of weight reduction doesn't compromise strength (this type of construction is also common in Pro Stock cars)...
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#920
Tech Master
iTrader: (40)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora La Reina de Los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula, California, Unites States of America
Posts: 1,183
Trader Rating: 40 (100%+)
Hey Bent, can we get this list and any updates to it on the first page of the thread?
OK, so i have been working on a Wheel/adapter list.. going through this forum, and finding what people are doing.. i still need AKA, and TLR front offsets.. if anyone has that info..
Wheel/adapter
XRAY Front/ 0mm 365353 (STOCK)
XRAY Rear/ +2.25mm 365357 (STOCK)
AVID Front/ i believe it needs -1.5 each side, can someone confirm
AVID Rear/ +1.50 365356
SCHU Front/ 0mm 365353 (STOCK)
SCHU Rear/ +2.25mm 365357 (STOCK)
PL B4 Front/ i believe it needs -1.5 each side, can someone confirm
PL B4 Rear/ +1.50 365356
PL B5 Front/ -0.75mm 365354
PL B5 Rear/ +3.00 365358
AKA Front/
AKA Rear/ +1.50 365356, plus 0.75 wheel shim
TLR Front/
TLR Rear/ +1.50 365356, plus 0.75 wheel shim
anyone feel free to correct anything i have on here.. im just putting this info from other post on this thread.. nothing is confirmed..
If anyone has more information, please let me know. i been working on a sheet for this, and can create a PDF, to share with everyone if they want.
Wheel/adapter
XRAY Front/ 0mm 365353 (STOCK)
XRAY Rear/ +2.25mm 365357 (STOCK)
AVID Front/ i believe it needs -1.5 each side, can someone confirm
AVID Rear/ +1.50 365356
SCHU Front/ 0mm 365353 (STOCK)
SCHU Rear/ +2.25mm 365357 (STOCK)
PL B4 Front/ i believe it needs -1.5 each side, can someone confirm
PL B4 Rear/ +1.50 365356
PL B5 Front/ -0.75mm 365354
PL B5 Rear/ +3.00 365358
AKA Front/
AKA Rear/ +1.50 365356, plus 0.75 wheel shim
TLR Front/
TLR Rear/ +1.50 365356, plus 0.75 wheel shim
anyone feel free to correct anything i have on here.. im just putting this info from other post on this thread.. nothing is confirmed..
If anyone has more information, please let me know. i been working on a sheet for this, and can create a PDF, to share with everyone if they want.
#922
Might have to pick up the dirt edition, xray has never let me down
#923
Tech Champion
iTrader: (33)
Typically, the pro level drivers are running Mod in my area and the Sportsman level drivers are running Stock, it helps give a little bit of a class division by skill. On top of that, the mod cars tend to go faster and are more likely to break which also warrants a higher level of skill to run that class. While an extra $100 or so in lightened parts may seem expensive up front, the added expense in faster tire wear will show that mod will be more expensive in the long run. Our high bite clay track will chew up a brand new set of tires in just 1 full race day in the stock class and I've heard some of the mod drivers will blow through 2 sets in a big race day with triple mains.
To each is own, doesn't matter to me if there's no support for lightened XB2 parts, I'm perfectly happy with my TLR 22-3.0 for stock racing, but will certainly be happy to be one of the first one's to buy an XB2-DE if someone's willing to make the lightened parts available, albeit XRay, MIP, Exotek... etc.
I already own an XB8E and love that buggy, sure would be nice to add another quality XRay product to my collection
#924
Tech Elite
iTrader: (43)
how can you quantify this statement?
Pretty interesting book here worth referencing:
https://books.google.com/books?id=uQ...pg=PA9&lpg=PA9
Pretty interesting book here worth referencing:
https://books.google.com/books?id=uQ...pg=PA9&lpg=PA9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia
#925
Tech Champion
iTrader: (33)
Removing 1 gram of weight from the outside of the slipper plates (15mm from the center of the hub) will have over 100x the effect of removing 2 grams from the drive shafts (1mm from the center of rotation).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia
I've taken some crude measurements and I've over simplified the calculations because the mass isn't equally distributed across each part, but I'm just trying to get some sort of ball park estimate in understanding the magnitude in delta inertia for each lightened part based on measurements from the TLR 22-3.0 and here's what I'm getting:
Axles: *** the more I think about it, I probably should've measured the CVD shaft by themselves and not included the axles with the shaft attached perhaps
Stock r = 5, m = 24.9 yields I = 622.5
Lightened r = 5, m = 17.8 yields I = 445
622.5 / 445 = 1.4x less inertia
24.9 / 17.8 = 1.4x less mass too
Ball Diff:Stock r = 11, m = 32.5 yields I = 3,933
Lightened r = 11, m = 17.2 yields I = 2,081
3,933 / 2,081 = 1.89x less inertia
24.9 / 17.8 = 1.89x less mass too
Slipper/Eliminator (only change in r so far):Stock r = 16, m = 12.4 yields I = 3,174
Lightened r = 10, m = 3.8 yields I = 380
3,171 / 380 = 8.35x less inertia
12.4 / 3.8 = 3.26x less mass
While I appreciate understanding how inertia makes a significant improvement in performance, it's worth noting that mass is directly tied in the equation and any opportunity to reduce rotating mass is probably worth it IMO, but thanks for helping explain the difference so I'm not just going off mass alone.***EDIT
Knowing what I've learned from this calculation, I'm starting to see that the MIP lightened shafts may not be worth the upgrade, although the lightened diff comes with the MIP upgrade where the lightened diff seems to be worth the upgrade. If I could do it over again, I'd probably go with just the TLR lightened out drives which use the stock shafts. It's also painfully clear that the smallest/lightest spur you can fit is grossly important, I might try to fit a 66T spur next
Last edited by billdelong; 01-09-2016 at 09:36 AM.
#926
On the eccentric bushings, I really have a simple understanding of them and am a bit confused. If I use the two 1 degrees, upside down. Will that drop my roll center more then .75? I hate not getting this so any help ion this would def be appreciated.
Im assembling another kit for a medium grip carpet layout.
Im assembling another kit for a medium grip carpet layout.
#927
Tech Champion
Thanks Seth, so using the formula:
I've taken some crude measurements and I've over simplified the calculations because the mass isn't equally distributed across each part, but I'm just trying to get some sort of ball park estimate in understanding the magnitude in delta inertia for each lightened part based on measurements from the TLR 22-3.0 and here's what I'm getting:
Axles: *** the more I think about it, I probably should've measured the CVD shaft by themselves and not included the axles with the shaft attached perhaps
***EDIT
Knowing what I've learned from this calculation, I'm starting to see that the MIP lightened shafts may not be worth the upgrade, although the lightened diff comes with the MIP upgrade where the lightened diff seems to be worth the upgrade. If I could do it over again, I'd probably go with just the TLR lightened out drives which use the stock shafts. It's also painfully clear that the smallest/lightest spur you can fit is grossly important, I might try to fit a 66T spur next
I've taken some crude measurements and I've over simplified the calculations because the mass isn't equally distributed across each part, but I'm just trying to get some sort of ball park estimate in understanding the magnitude in delta inertia for each lightened part based on measurements from the TLR 22-3.0 and here's what I'm getting:
Axles: *** the more I think about it, I probably should've measured the CVD shaft by themselves and not included the axles with the shaft attached perhaps
Stock r = 5, m = 24.9 yields I = 622.5
Lightened r = 5, m = 17.8 yields I = 445
622.5 / 445 = 1.4x less inertia
24.9 / 17.8 = 1.4x less mass too
Ball Diff:Stock r = 11, m = 32.5 yields I = 3,933
Lightened r = 11, m = 17.2 yields I = 2,081
3,933 / 2,081 = 1.89x less inertia
24.9 / 17.8 = 1.89x less mass too
Slipper/Eliminator (only change in r so far):Stock r = 16, m = 12.4 yields I = 3,174
Lightened r = 10, m = 3.8 yields I = 380
3,171 / 380 = 8.35x less inertia
12.4 / 3.8 = 3.26x less mass
While I appreciate understanding how inertia makes a significant improvement in performance, it's worth noting that mass is directly tied in the equation and any opportunity to reduce rotating mass is probably worth it IMO, but thanks for helping explain the difference so I'm not just going off mass alone.***EDIT
Knowing what I've learned from this calculation, I'm starting to see that the MIP lightened shafts may not be worth the upgrade, although the lightened diff comes with the MIP upgrade where the lightened diff seems to be worth the upgrade. If I could do it over again, I'd probably go with just the TLR lightened out drives which use the stock shafts. It's also painfully clear that the smallest/lightest spur you can fit is grossly important, I might try to fit a 66T spur next
A handy List of moments of inertia for various shapes, which is also linked from the page Seth provided. Although to be fair I don't think it changes your conclusions, just occurred to me while reading along.
Something that will matter, for the spur the rotational speed needs to be considered, as it also spins faster than the axle shafts if I'm not mistaken. Which takes more energy to achieve. Another squared factor:
Rotational energy
Although the lighter axle components do have the additional benefit of reducing unsprung suspension mass, which is a good thing too.
#929
Or at least until they release that slipperless spur gear.
Come on Xray! I know you can do it!