Saint Louis carpet racing!!
11-28-2005, 03:24 PM
#166
Originally Posted by BiggAlz
i think it would be kool larry, do you think it would be an issue for anyone whos not a local person whos here alot? and im just wandering why to use more power with the rubber? i think it would be kool im just wandering why? just for the heck of it ?
Ok, forget all the technical aspects of the class. What's important is people wanna go fast and not spend a ton of cash! 19T gives you the speed and rubbers last much longer.
Let hear some thoughts!
Last edited by evostyle; 11-28-2005 at 07:47 PM.
11-28-2005, 03:31 PM
#167
im down...well someday if i get my $hit together 
it will be like when you guys had the track by your house.....even if we didnt got rubber tires, the 19t dont sound bad at all, you see the fk06 post??
it will be like when you guys had the track by your house.....even if we didnt got rubber tires, the 19t dont sound bad at all, you see the fk06 post??
11-28-2005, 06:15 PM
#169
Tech Adept
What brand?What compound? 
Anyone locally who will carry them?
Anyone locally who will carry them?
11-28-2005, 08:56 PM
#170
Well - at this point I'm pretty hooked on the smell of Pargon. So, how will the rubbers work with Paragon on them???? 
I have never run on rubber unless it was on dirt and had a .21 pushing 3 horse power over a double double- so I really can't add alot to that debate.
As far as Stock, 19T or Mod - I'm all for upping the horsepower. But, I have to admit that running stock and lacking unlimited power has taught me about turns scrubbing speed if they are taken wrong. In other words, because the motors have a limit to the power, I think more about how my stock motor won't recover fast enough if I scrub too much speed around a corning. This is a good learning exercise for new guys like me.
I'm actually having a good time running stock - but - not using brakes is eliminating an important part of racing. I feel like I'm learning a great deal from onroad, but I could really benefit from some learning regarding braking. My guess is Onroad Gas requires brakes much like Offroad Gas. So, with stock during the winter, we are not practicing something important to our summer success (could be way off on this, so correct me if I'm wrong)
Final point - seems like batteries become less detrimental outside of stock. May be a way to save on batteries.
Let's hear from some guys that know what their talking about:
I have never run on rubber unless it was on dirt and had a .21 pushing 3 horse power over a double double- so I really can't add alot to that debate.
As far as Stock, 19T or Mod - I'm all for upping the horsepower. But, I have to admit that running stock and lacking unlimited power has taught me about turns scrubbing speed if they are taken wrong. In other words, because the motors have a limit to the power, I think more about how my stock motor won't recover fast enough if I scrub too much speed around a corning. This is a good learning exercise for new guys like me.
I'm actually having a good time running stock - but - not using brakes is eliminating an important part of racing. I feel like I'm learning a great deal from onroad, but I could really benefit from some learning regarding braking. My guess is Onroad Gas requires brakes much like Offroad Gas. So, with stock during the winter, we are not practicing something important to our summer success (could be way off on this, so correct me if I'm wrong)
Final point - seems like batteries become less detrimental outside of stock. May be a way to save on batteries.
Let's hear from some guys that know what their talking about:
11-28-2005, 09:11 PM
#171
Larry,
Are you suggesting that we give up foam tire racing in favor of rubber tire? I know that two completely different setups would be required (case against trying to run both classes with 1 car).
First, the 19t turn class always struck me as the answer to a question that nobody asked. Granted it's slightly faster than a stock motor, but you'll still run into the phenomena whereby he with the bestest batteries (and the luckiest pick of motors at the hobby store) will have the most HP. As an added bonus, you'll get to hit things slightly harder despite the fact that some folks STILL pull you on the back straight. I'd say open mod or the good ole ROAR stock motor....save the 19T for the guys that need a trophy real bad at a big race.
I hear what you're suggesting about mad traction with foams and limited HP. However, I don't feel that car setup is less of a factor. Drew shows all of us week in and week out that we DON'T have it figured out. I could see him becoming bored and looking for the added challange of less traction and more HP, but if the rest of us are honest, added challange is the last thing we need. Go back a few pages and read Greg's post about the broken parts count on his table on one particular race night. While a rubber tire won't chunk, the rims will still crack (leaves the tire as useless as chunked foam) and the 'added challnage' might just make for a bigger pile of broken plastic in the meantime.
The last point worth considering in terms of switching to rubber tires is this. If anyone has interest in attending a big carpet race somewhere, it seems that the classes that matter still compete on foam tires. I know that they have run the occational rubber tire class but last I checked (and I could be wrong), the big TC classes (mod, stock, masters) still run foam tires. If guys were racing at home on rubber, it would be the same as trying to improve your golf swing at the batting cages.
Are you suggesting that we give up foam tire racing in favor of rubber tire? I know that two completely different setups would be required (case against trying to run both classes with 1 car).
First, the 19t turn class always struck me as the answer to a question that nobody asked. Granted it's slightly faster than a stock motor, but you'll still run into the phenomena whereby he with the bestest batteries (and the luckiest pick of motors at the hobby store) will have the most HP. As an added bonus, you'll get to hit things slightly harder despite the fact that some folks STILL pull you on the back straight. I'd say open mod or the good ole ROAR stock motor....save the 19T for the guys that need a trophy real bad at a big race.
I hear what you're suggesting about mad traction with foams and limited HP. However, I don't feel that car setup is less of a factor. Drew shows all of us week in and week out that we DON'T have it figured out. I could see him becoming bored and looking for the added challange of less traction and more HP, but if the rest of us are honest, added challange is the last thing we need. Go back a few pages and read Greg's post about the broken parts count on his table on one particular race night. While a rubber tire won't chunk, the rims will still crack (leaves the tire as useless as chunked foam) and the 'added challnage' might just make for a bigger pile of broken plastic in the meantime.
The last point worth considering in terms of switching to rubber tires is this. If anyone has interest in attending a big carpet race somewhere, it seems that the classes that matter still compete on foam tires. I know that they have run the occational rubber tire class but last I checked (and I could be wrong), the big TC classes (mod, stock, masters) still run foam tires. If guys were racing at home on rubber, it would be the same as trying to improve your golf swing at the batting cages.
11-28-2005, 09:41 PM
#172
19t is a bit faster than a stock motor.alot of tracks run 19t..id think batterys and motor is alot bigger deal in an open mod class, and mods cost alot and dont last as long ,what larry was aying about set up..i think... is that besides needing a decent set up, you have to learn some control ,with foam you have their great traction to lean on,so you can blast a turn and mash on the gas,i think breaking a rim is the last thing any of us should worry about,a rubber rim will be just as hard to break as a foam rim,id have to say set up has little to do with why drew is the fastest person there,if your turning 26-27 laps, you wont take his car and do 30...... i was also thinking about the hitting another track thing, with foams i think you can just tweak your set up from track to track, going from foam to rubber and back again it a bit of change,enough to make me not wana do rubber, i dont care either way i didnt have a problem with foam, i was talking toa friend from WI , they race stock rubber and 19t foam, he was saying with cs27s, he only get about 3 weeks and they start running like crap, once you wear them so they get the small groove near the edges....but you are garantee they wont chunk and will last the 3 weeks .......so either way
11-29-2005, 06:30 AM
#173
BiggAlz (who are you by the way?),
I was really making two separate points when I mentioned that Drew 'showed us' week in and week out. My first point is that car setup STILL MATTERS in stock foam TC....not that Drew was beating us because of his car setup. We all know the real reason he's fast is because he sold his soul to the devil about 2 years ago. The second point was that the last thing needed at the track right now is an added challenge. I feel Larry's pain in that stock/foam TC is about as easy as TC racing gets and can seem boring at times but none of us have it mastered. It's true that you run punched the whole time and other than timing when to lift, you mainly have to steer. However, even given how boring/easy the stock/foam TC thing is (comparatively speaking) guys are just now getting to the point where they can run all night without breaking their car(or breaking as much) and I can promise you that that sort of progress would come to a screeching halt if you gave them more HP and/or less traction.
I applaud Larry's suggestion. He's a sharp dude and he's been around racing for a long time. I think his motive was less about his personal boredom with stock/foam TC and more about trying to keep the new guys from getting discouraged with all their chunked foam tires. I agree we need to find ways to keep things fun....keep the new guys interested....and attract more new folks. I'm just offering the alternate viewpoint that 19T rubber tire racing might be even more frustrating/discouraging than our current program and could be counter productive.
I was really making two separate points when I mentioned that Drew 'showed us' week in and week out. My first point is that car setup STILL MATTERS in stock foam TC....not that Drew was beating us because of his car setup. We all know the real reason he's fast is because he sold his soul to the devil about 2 years ago. The second point was that the last thing needed at the track right now is an added challenge. I feel Larry's pain in that stock/foam TC is about as easy as TC racing gets and can seem boring at times but none of us have it mastered. It's true that you run punched the whole time and other than timing when to lift, you mainly have to steer. However, even given how boring/easy the stock/foam TC thing is (comparatively speaking) guys are just now getting to the point where they can run all night without breaking their car(or breaking as much) and I can promise you that that sort of progress would come to a screeching halt if you gave them more HP and/or less traction.
I applaud Larry's suggestion. He's a sharp dude and he's been around racing for a long time. I think his motive was less about his personal boredom with stock/foam TC and more about trying to keep the new guys from getting discouraged with all their chunked foam tires. I agree we need to find ways to keep things fun....keep the new guys interested....and attract more new folks. I'm just offering the alternate viewpoint that 19T rubber tire racing might be even more frustrating/discouraging than our current program and could be counter productive.
11-29-2005, 07:54 AM
#174
I can testify to broken parts. Please, I just started getting the hang of stock foams. Chunked tires suck but they are very easy to change. Broken parts take a while to fix and make me drive more defensivly which usually makes me break more parts.
I'm for leaving it alone for a couple weeks. I just love racing so I'll still be there no matter what happens.
I'm for leaving it alone for a couple weeks. I just love racing so I'll still be there no matter what happens.
11-29-2005, 09:06 AM
#175
Originally Posted by sps3172
BiggAlz (who are you by the way?),
I was really making two separate points when I mentioned that Drew 'showed us' week in and week out. My first point is that car setup STILL MATTERS in stock foam TC....not that Drew was beating us because of his car setup. We all know the real reason he's fast is because he sold his soul to the devil about 2 years ago. The second point was that the last thing needed at the track right now is an added challenge. I feel Larry's pain in that stock/foam TC is about as easy as TC racing gets and can seem boring at times but none of us have it mastered. It's true that you run punched the whole time and other than timing when to lift, you mainly have to steer. However, even given how boring/easy the stock/foam TC thing is (comparatively speaking) guys are just now getting to the point where they can run all night without breaking their car(or breaking as much) and I can promise you that that sort of progress would come to a screeching halt if you gave them more HP and/or less traction.
I applaud Larry's suggestion. He's a sharp dude and he's been around racing for a long time. I think his motive was less about his personal boredom with stock/foam TC and more about trying to keep the new guys from getting discouraged with all their chunked foam tires. I agree we need to find ways to keep things fun....keep the new guys interested....and attract more new folks. I'm just offering the alternate viewpoint that 19T rubber tire racing might be even more frustrating/discouraging than our current program and could be counter productive.
I was really making two separate points when I mentioned that Drew 'showed us' week in and week out. My first point is that car setup STILL MATTERS in stock foam TC....not that Drew was beating us because of his car setup. We all know the real reason he's fast is because he sold his soul to the devil about 2 years ago. The second point was that the last thing needed at the track right now is an added challenge. I feel Larry's pain in that stock/foam TC is about as easy as TC racing gets and can seem boring at times but none of us have it mastered. It's true that you run punched the whole time and other than timing when to lift, you mainly have to steer. However, even given how boring/easy the stock/foam TC thing is (comparatively speaking) guys are just now getting to the point where they can run all night without breaking their car(or breaking as much) and I can promise you that that sort of progress would come to a screeching halt if you gave them more HP and/or less traction.
I applaud Larry's suggestion. He's a sharp dude and he's been around racing for a long time. I think his motive was less about his personal boredom with stock/foam TC and more about trying to keep the new guys from getting discouraged with all their chunked foam tires. I agree we need to find ways to keep things fun....keep the new guys interested....and attract more new folks. I'm just offering the alternate viewpoint that 19T rubber tire racing might be even more frustrating/discouraging than our current program and could be counter productive.
11-29-2005, 10:31 AM
#176
Here's something else to consider, I have been racing TC's since they were a class to race, and they started on rubber tires only (no foams were available for first 2 years of racing). Then the tire wars were in full heat. What insert? what tire? and then when you did buy them they were good for a days of racing and if you bought new ones every week cause new, were signifigantly faster. You can ask anyone who races rubber now and it still is true. When foams came to the scene, TC's doubled in attendance at races, you no longer had to buy 6-10 sets of tires for the weekend. Me and Tony went to the first ROAR TC National in Chicago, Rubber only, We spent close to $1,000 on different tires, only to find that a new compound was out and they were .2-.5 per lap faster. But enough about the past, spec tire were supposed to change that, but new is still faster, why do you think they limit the tires to 3-4 sets at a event? At least with foams you get consistancy.
And on the breakage of the rims, they are more brittle than foam rims, they are stiffer, inner and outer lips to hold the tire on. Plus with 19 turn, you hit boards harder.
And one other thing, rubber will pick a carpet track bald, everyone has been to a track that allows rubber tires and you are picking massive amounts of fibers from your bearings and axles, every run.
And on the breakage of the rims, they are more brittle than foam rims, they are stiffer, inner and outer lips to hold the tire on. Plus with 19 turn, you hit boards harder.
And one other thing, rubber will pick a carpet track bald, everyone has been to a track that allows rubber tires and you are picking massive amounts of fibers from your bearings and axles, every run.
11-29-2005, 06:53 PM
#177
Results!!!!! NOW!!!!! Please!!!
Me and Ed will be coming to run 1/12 on Dec 9th. Who's man enough to run with us.
Me and Ed will be coming to run 1/12 on Dec 9th. Who's man enough to run with us.
11-29-2005, 07:28 PM
#178
I don't have the results right now, Dave has them, I'll see if he will e-mail them to me.
And on a sad note I read on Hobbytalk that Claude Warren passed away, this is 3 racers from Pontoon speedway that are gone, hopefully there will be no more. Be carefull this holiday season guys.
And on a sad note I read on Hobbytalk that Claude Warren passed away, this is 3 racers from Pontoon speedway that are gone, hopefully there will be no more. Be carefull this holiday season guys.
11-29-2005, 09:26 PM
#179
dang i just saw him on like the 12th i think, at my back docter when i was ther for my follow up...crazy