302LikesR1 Wurks brushless motors
. Huge improvement over the V15.
06-30-2017, 04:48 PM
#334
Korey, recommended fdr and timing outdoor tc???
07-01-2017, 10:56 AM
#335
I finally got around doing some dyno testing comparing hot motor performance loss between 30 and 50 degree timing.
The test was made using a R1 175 V16 at 30 and 50 degrees timing using load 2 (flywheel and a 15 amp resistive load) on the dyno.
The motor was cleaned, stator de-burred of epoxy (the epoxy covered thin sheet under the winding on some motors extend and touch the sensor. This makes hard to change timing).
Stator resistance and rotor strength was read on our Fact Machine 2 before and after the test. No degradation was observed on the rotor at this temperature.
Motor has Ceramic BB and the rotor shaft was polished.
I had to use a heat gun to bring up motor to 113 F then run the motor up to 130F, these motors are like heat sinks and dissipate heat fast.
The table below shows 3 entries for 30* timing and 2 for 50* timing. It took 21 runs on the dyno to get to 128*F and only took 9 runs from 113*F to 131*F.
At 74*F ambient with the motor set at 30* it did not want to go past 121*F. Stopped at run 18, used the heat gun, ran it 3 more times and got a 128*F reading of the motor.
The results were as we expected, In this case the 30 mark (26 internal timing) yielded less power loss and the motor just wanted to run cooler.
At less timing the motor made less RPM; to compensate top speed and prevent wheel spin due to increased torque a lower FDR will be needed.
To calculate a new FDR the current wheel speed needs to be known. In this case I used the dyno data table to calculate the existing wheel speed and then used the formula below to calculate a new FDR that gets you in the ball park.
May need to test going up or down a tooth.
RPM for 2S is used by multiplying the test KV by 8.4 and for 1S multiply test KV by 4.2
Another way of obtaining a rpm reading is from a esc that logs rpm. Just make sure the reading is true rpm with wheels on the track, and not wheel spin or free wheel rpm.
Hope this information helps your motor run cool and fast during the summer racing !
The test was made using a R1 175 V16 at 30 and 50 degrees timing using load 2 (flywheel and a 15 amp resistive load) on the dyno.
The motor was cleaned, stator de-burred of epoxy (the epoxy covered thin sheet under the winding on some motors extend and touch the sensor. This makes hard to change timing).
Stator resistance and rotor strength was read on our Fact Machine 2 before and after the test. No degradation was observed on the rotor at this temperature.
Motor has Ceramic BB and the rotor shaft was polished.
I had to use a heat gun to bring up motor to 113 F then run the motor up to 130F, these motors are like heat sinks and dissipate heat fast.
The table below shows 3 entries for 30* timing and 2 for 50* timing. It took 21 runs on the dyno to get to 128*F and only took 9 runs from 113*F to 131*F.
At 74*F ambient with the motor set at 30* it did not want to go past 121*F. Stopped at run 18, used the heat gun, ran it 3 more times and got a 128*F reading of the motor.
The results were as we expected, In this case the 30 mark (26 internal timing) yielded less power loss and the motor just wanted to run cooler.
At less timing the motor made less RPM; to compensate top speed and prevent wheel spin due to increased torque a lower FDR will be needed.
To calculate a new FDR the current wheel speed needs to be known. In this case I used the dyno data table to calculate the existing wheel speed and then used the formula below to calculate a new FDR that gets you in the ball park.
May need to test going up or down a tooth.
RPM for 2S is used by multiplying the test KV by 8.4 and for 1S multiply test KV by 4.2
Another way of obtaining a rpm reading is from a esc that logs rpm. Just make sure the reading is true rpm with wheels on the track, and not wheel spin or free wheel rpm.
Hope this information helps your motor run cool and fast during the summer racing !
07-02-2017, 12:37 AM
#336
I tried out my new V16 21.5 today. I started with stock (50 degrees) timing and 3.8FDR and it was instantly a lot faster than my old Reedy Mach 2. After talking to the local fast guy who has the same motor, he said he runs around 55 degrees with 3.45FDR. I tried 50 degrees and 3.5FDR and went even quicker than my first run. Next time I'll try a timing tweak. Motor only hit 40 celcius (ambient temperature around 15). My hot lap under similar conditions with the old motor was around 18.1, and best ever over summer was 17.6. Today I smashed my PB and got a handful of 17.1s. That's between half a second and a full second quicker with a motor change.
07-02-2017, 06:39 PM
#337
I finally got around doing some dyno testing comparing hot motor performance loss between 30 and 50 degree timing.
The test was made using a R1 175 V16 at 30 and 50 degrees timing using load 2 (flywheel and a 15 amp resistive load) on the dyno.
The motor was cleaned, stator de-burred of epoxy (the epoxy covered thin sheet under the winding on some motors extend and touch the sensor. This makes hard to change timing).
Stator resistance and rotor strength was read on our Fact Machine 2 before and after the test. No degradation was observed on the rotor at this temperature.
Motor has Ceramic BB and the rotor shaft was polished.
I had to use a heat gun to bring up motor to 113 F then run the motor up to 130F, these motors are like heat sinks and dissipate heat fast.
The table below shows 3 entries for 30* timing and 2 for 50* timing. It took 21 runs on the dyno to get to 128*F and only took 9 runs from 113*F to 131*F.
At 74*F ambient with the motor set at 30* it did not want to go past 121*F. Stopped at run 18, used the heat gun, ran it 3 more times and got a 128*F reading of the motor.
The results were as we expected, In this case the 30 mark (26 internal timing) yielded less power loss and the motor just wanted to run cooler.
At less timing the motor made less RPM; to compensate top speed and prevent wheel spin due to increased torque a lower FDR will be needed.
To calculate a new FDR the current wheel speed needs to be known. In this case I used the dyno data table to calculate the existing wheel speed and then used the formula below to calculate a new FDR that gets you in the ball park.
May need to test going up or down a tooth.
RPM for 2S is used by multiplying the test KV by 8.4 and for 1S multiply test KV by 4.2
Another way of obtaining a rpm reading is from a esc that logs rpm. Just make sure the reading is true rpm with wheels on the track, and not wheel spin or free wheel rpm.
Hope this information helps your motor run cool and fast during the summer racing !
The test was made using a R1 175 V16 at 30 and 50 degrees timing using load 2 (flywheel and a 15 amp resistive load) on the dyno.
The motor was cleaned, stator de-burred of epoxy (the epoxy covered thin sheet under the winding on some motors extend and touch the sensor. This makes hard to change timing).
Stator resistance and rotor strength was read on our Fact Machine 2 before and after the test. No degradation was observed on the rotor at this temperature.
Motor has Ceramic BB and the rotor shaft was polished.
I had to use a heat gun to bring up motor to 113 F then run the motor up to 130F, these motors are like heat sinks and dissipate heat fast.
The table below shows 3 entries for 30* timing and 2 for 50* timing. It took 21 runs on the dyno to get to 128*F and only took 9 runs from 113*F to 131*F.
At 74*F ambient with the motor set at 30* it did not want to go past 121*F. Stopped at run 18, used the heat gun, ran it 3 more times and got a 128*F reading of the motor.
The results were as we expected, In this case the 30 mark (26 internal timing) yielded less power loss and the motor just wanted to run cooler.
At less timing the motor made less RPM; to compensate top speed and prevent wheel spin due to increased torque a lower FDR will be needed.
To calculate a new FDR the current wheel speed needs to be known. In this case I used the dyno data table to calculate the existing wheel speed and then used the formula below to calculate a new FDR that gets you in the ball park.
May need to test going up or down a tooth.
RPM for 2S is used by multiplying the test KV by 8.4 and for 1S multiply test KV by 4.2
Another way of obtaining a rpm reading is from a esc that logs rpm. Just make sure the reading is true rpm with wheels on the track, and not wheel spin or free wheel rpm.
Hope this information helps your motor run cool and fast during the summer racing !
07-02-2017, 10:04 PM
#338
Ran the motor again today at Porter down in Texas with a slightly better rotor. Geared at 31* on the endbell which is like 28* on my motor. Was going against one of my buddies down the 200 ft straight with a Motiv MC2 set with High timing and higher FDR. His motor sounded a lot zippier, however I was pulling him a good 10 feet down the straight, especially towards the end of the straight. He was probably under geared slightly, but was was surprising was how big the difference was out of the corners.
My car launched and got a good 5 -10 ft out of the corners just on rip alone. It was visibly faster. The motor still ran a bit hot, but no matter what I do, it seems to always be around 185-195*. (It was hotter when gearing higher frd and high timing though) Mind you the straight is very long and track temp was 130-135 today. The fade is not an issue and the components are holding up really well. No hot temp smell like other motors when they get around this temp. I have a theory the motor is working extremely well pushing the heat out from the inside out. May have something to do with the thermal epoxy? I don't know. What I do know is it ran like a champ.
My car launched and got a good 5 -10 ft out of the corners just on rip alone. It was visibly faster. The motor still ran a bit hot, but no matter what I do, it seems to always be around 185-195*. (It was hotter when gearing higher frd and high timing though) Mind you the straight is very long and track temp was 130-135 today. The fade is not an issue and the components are holding up really well. No hot temp smell like other motors when they get around this temp. I have a theory the motor is working extremely well pushing the heat out from the inside out. May have something to do with the thermal epoxy? I don't know. What I do know is it ran like a champ.
07-03-2017, 09:10 AM
#340
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
On my V16 21.5, the brakes feel weak in my TC. Adjusted my ESC to max and still feel like I can use more. With my Team Powers V2 motor, this setting would have locked up the wheels.
Motor is 2 races old, timing set at 40 degrees ( about 44 on the can ) and FDR of about 3.5. Motor comes off the track around 140 - 150F.
Wondering if I got a weak rotor?
Motor is 2 races old, timing set at 40 degrees ( about 44 on the can ) and FDR of about 3.5. Motor comes off the track around 140 - 150F.
Wondering if I got a weak rotor?
07-03-2017, 10:19 AM
#341
Stator resistance:
36.8mohm @ 75F
37.8mohm @ 100F
39.4mohm @ 125F
12.5mm Rotor, Gauss New (Facts Machine 2, reads low ~120 gauss)
+1533/-1525
A rotor taken to ~200F degrade to 1440. Motor looses 20-25% power. Like running a 12.3 rotor.
The 12.3 rotor that come in the 25.5 reads +1440/1453
36.8mohm @ 75F
37.8mohm @ 100F
39.4mohm @ 125F
12.5mm Rotor, Gauss New (Facts Machine 2, reads low ~120 gauss)
+1533/-1525
A rotor taken to ~200F degrade to 1440. Motor looses 20-25% power. Like running a 12.3 rotor.
The 12.3 rotor that come in the 25.5 reads +1440/1453
07-04-2017, 05:13 PM
#342
V16 question
I'm a little perplexed in where to start this motor for our home track. Its a small 55 foot straight. The motor is out of the bag at 50* my previous V11 was set at 57* timing and ended up running a 4.42 fdr. Never had temp issues with that setup. Now the V16, going by the RPM/gearing theory that you guys mention, I'd have to be somewhere around 5.5 to even 6.0. Does this sound right?
Are you guys running the lower timing to compensate for the higher track temps running outdoors?
Either way on my motor checker, the V16 doesn't pull as much current as the V11 does, so the heat isn't being generated thru that, so I'm back to wondering what a good fdr would be to start with.
Thanks
Are you guys running the lower timing to compensate for the higher track temps running outdoors?
Either way on my motor checker, the V16 doesn't pull as much current as the V11 does, so the heat isn't being generated thru that, so I'm back to wondering what a good fdr would be to start with.
Thanks
07-04-2017, 05:15 PM
#343
07-04-2017, 05:31 PM
#344
I'm a little perplexed in where to start this motor for our home track. Its a small 55 foot straight. The motor is out of the bag at 50* my previous V11 was set at 57* timing and ended up running a 4.42 fdr. Never had temp issues with that setup. Now the V16, going by the RPM/gearing theory that you guys mention, I'd have to be somewhere around 5.5 to even 6.0. Does this sound right?
Are you guys running the lower timing to compensate for the higher track temps running outdoors?
Either way on my motor checker, the V16 doesn't pull as much current as the V11 does, so the heat isn't being generated thru that, so I'm back to wondering what a good fdr would be to start with.
Thanks
Are you guys running the lower timing to compensate for the higher track temps running outdoors?
Either way on my motor checker, the V16 doesn't pull as much current as the V11 does, so the heat isn't being generated thru that, so I'm back to wondering what a good fdr would be to start with.
Thanks
07-04-2017, 07:00 PM
#345
Gary, after playing on the dyno a bit, I found the highest power numbers to be around 40-42 degrees for the v16 sss motors.