VERY IMPORTANT: We need new rules!!!
02-18-2004, 10:16 AM
#61
I am totally down with a set number of laps.....kinda gets rid of the run time wars....would probably make for a little more exciting racing too.
Maybe we should allow blatant team driving too!
Later EddieO
Maybe we should allow blatant team driving too!
Later EddieO
02-18-2004, 11:56 AM
#62
Tech Regular
wheres the challenge in having realism for R/C?
We Race for the challege to go faster get better lap times and so so why restrict our selves to totally realistic bodys, which are 3 times dearer and 3 time likely to break.
I do agree with some limits so we don't end up running, wings on wheels slot cars.
But how realistic do you want it to be real 4 door saloon race cars have been aerodynamicly honed and smooth out to handle better and thus won't be the exact same dimensions as what they are based on.
That what touring cars should aim for look very similar the the car they are based on but have good handling properties.
just my 2pence
We Race for the challege to go faster get better lap times and so so why restrict our selves to totally realistic bodys, which are 3 times dearer and 3 time likely to break.
I do agree with some limits so we don't end up running, wings on wheels slot cars.
But how realistic do you want it to be real 4 door saloon race cars have been aerodynamicly honed and smooth out to handle better and thus won't be the exact same dimensions as what they are based on.
That what touring cars should aim for look very similar the the car they are based on but have good handling properties.
just my 2pence
02-18-2004, 12:53 PM
#63
Originally posted by Smoking motor..
.....
I do agree with some limits so we don't end up running, wings on wheels slot cars.
But how realistic do you want it to be real 4 door saloon race cars have been aerodynamicly honed and smooth out to handle better and thus won't be the exact same dimensions as what they are based on.
That what touring cars should aim for look very similar the the car they are based on but have good handling properties. just my 2pence
.....
I do agree with some limits so we don't end up running, wings on wheels slot cars.
But how realistic do you want it to be real 4 door saloon race cars have been aerodynamicly honed and smooth out to handle better and thus won't be the exact same dimensions as what they are based on.
That what touring cars should aim for look very similar the the car they are based on but have good handling properties.
just my 2pence
i think your statement is pretty much what BarryWhite (and myself) is suggesting... race cars (TouringCars, DTMs, GT1s and GT2s) indeed have been Aero'd,... but our R/C cars have gone WAAAAYYY past that... I (and Barry, i think..) are simply wanting to get bodies closer to actual race-car proportion/structure, not the 'daily-driver, civilian-showroom' proportion... I think (from reading some of the remarks here) a lot of the posters are mis-interpreting the reason for the start of this thread... like i said before, Tamiya, imo, has the best representation of race cars but still making them 'race-worthy'..
$0.02
02-18-2004, 03:56 PM
#64
Originally posted by SpeedyTC3
If you want to change R/C racing to full scale realism, start with 1/10th offroad stadium trucks. Let's get those tires down to scale size and see how they hold up.......LMAO!!!!
If you want to change R/C racing to full scale realism, start with 1/10th offroad stadium trucks. Let's get those tires down to scale size and see how they hold up.......LMAO!!!!
02-18-2004, 04:06 PM
#65
The tweaks on the full size racers have been doen to aerodynamically fine tune the cars for the speeds that they will be running....The same applies for the RC bodies...
I actually feel more stupider for having participated in this thread...(yes that was intentional)
If this is the biggest thing you guys have to worry about, thten you have way too much time on your hands.
I actually feel more stupider for having participated in this thread...(yes that was intentional)
If this is the biggest thing you guys have to worry about, thten you have way too much time on your hands.
02-18-2004, 06:50 PM
#66
not only the bodys but what about the wheels, what the heck scale size are those babies, 26's maybe 28's
02-19-2004, 03:50 AM
#67
Seems like some of you guys have taken it in turns to bust Barry's balls quite a bit for just expressing an opinion. Yay! pfft. Boo on you guys. I don't think he's trying to force anyone to follow "his" rules, he just wanted to have a discussion I think.
Skidmarks says: "barry, you say the manufacturers send in their bodies for approval with money. i'm on the board of ROAR and i have never seen a body come in with money to be approved. where did you get this info?"
Read the manufacturer's approval procedures on the ROAR site: http://www.roarracing.net/products/procedures.htm: "The following ROAR product approval procedure has been established:
1. Receive the product(s) and fees"... I used to send in bodies for homologation, I know how the process works.
I'm for more realism in the racing, but ROAR sometimes has a tough job to decide where to stick certain cars. The FWD TC, for example, must run in the 4WD TC class. The market itself (i.e., US) decided that FWD wasn't that fun and so you don't see a pro-level FWD car any more.
On the other hand, it's ROAR's fault the Stratus 2.0 is legal (and good job for the EU rulesmakers not allowing it), since it has never competed in full-size TC racing. It's also ROAR's fault they aren't enforcing the realism of the bodies more. Some companies release a "new" body that is basically a Stratus with different grille and lights. That's just good marketing and solid results unfortunately.
I do agree that Americans desire performance over looks. Just look at sprint cars, East Coast modifieds, funny cars, monster trucks, NASCAR, sand rails, etc. Nasty-looking machines that just go fast, or just have tons of horsepower and eat dirt/asphalt. (Note that many of these types of racing just feature a basically standard chassis with a particular body shell on it that LOOKS like a certain car make.) Europeans prefer to combine performance and looks as much as possible I think.
The JMRCA has a rule that the rear bumper of the body can't be cut any higher than the rear axle when the car is at race weight, and the BRCA and EFRA I believe don't allow the Stratus 2.0 in their events. Why does ROAR still wallow in the dark ages?
I've always thought it's possible to combine the looks of the touring cars with the aerodynamic tweaks that make them work for the purposes of small scale racing, but as long as people buy the tweaked bodies the rules organizations will support them. I would have hoped that ROAR would have clued in to the 2-door DTM racing long ago (I know one member of the body approval comittee was thinking about it), but to their credit they've taken the very belated step of having all currently approved bodies have a 5-year life span, so manufacturers will be forced to come out with new bodies. Hopefully the companies won't abuse it and just do a minor change and release it under a new part number, because that isn't the intent of the rules change. The idea is to update the look of the racing - how long has it been since the can-am racers were actually made, and 1/8th scale on-road still uses the same basic body.
And IMPACTPLAYR says: "How many real race cars actually at true to life models of their street brothern??? Corvette, Viper, Ferrari all of their real race cars only bare slight resemblence to the cars you can drive off of the show room floors" ...Take a look at the old Speedvision Cup, Porsche Cup, 355 Challenge, GT3, etc. classes, as well as any of the SCCA racing going on in the US.
Skidmarks says: "barry, you say the manufacturers send in their bodies for approval with money. i'm on the board of ROAR and i have never seen a body come in with money to be approved. where did you get this info?"
Read the manufacturer's approval procedures on the ROAR site: http://www.roarracing.net/products/procedures.htm: "The following ROAR product approval procedure has been established:
1. Receive the product(s) and fees"... I used to send in bodies for homologation, I know how the process works.
I'm for more realism in the racing, but ROAR sometimes has a tough job to decide where to stick certain cars. The FWD TC, for example, must run in the 4WD TC class. The market itself (i.e., US) decided that FWD wasn't that fun and so you don't see a pro-level FWD car any more.
On the other hand, it's ROAR's fault the Stratus 2.0 is legal (and good job for the EU rulesmakers not allowing it), since it has never competed in full-size TC racing. It's also ROAR's fault they aren't enforcing the realism of the bodies more. Some companies release a "new" body that is basically a Stratus with different grille and lights. That's just good marketing and solid results unfortunately.
I do agree that Americans desire performance over looks. Just look at sprint cars, East Coast modifieds, funny cars, monster trucks, NASCAR, sand rails, etc. Nasty-looking machines that just go fast, or just have tons of horsepower and eat dirt/asphalt. (Note that many of these types of racing just feature a basically standard chassis with a particular body shell on it that LOOKS like a certain car make.) Europeans prefer to combine performance and looks as much as possible I think.
The JMRCA has a rule that the rear bumper of the body can't be cut any higher than the rear axle when the car is at race weight, and the BRCA and EFRA I believe don't allow the Stratus 2.0 in their events. Why does ROAR still wallow in the dark ages?
I've always thought it's possible to combine the looks of the touring cars with the aerodynamic tweaks that make them work for the purposes of small scale racing, but as long as people buy the tweaked bodies the rules organizations will support them. I would have hoped that ROAR would have clued in to the 2-door DTM racing long ago (I know one member of the body approval comittee was thinking about it), but to their credit they've taken the very belated step of having all currently approved bodies have a 5-year life span, so manufacturers will be forced to come out with new bodies. Hopefully the companies won't abuse it and just do a minor change and release it under a new part number, because that isn't the intent of the rules change. The idea is to update the look of the racing - how long has it been since the can-am racers were actually made, and 1/8th scale on-road still uses the same basic body.
And IMPACTPLAYR says: "How many real race cars actually at true to life models of their street brothern??? Corvette, Viper, Ferrari all of their real race cars only bare slight resemblence to the cars you can drive off of the show room floors" ...Take a look at the old Speedvision Cup, Porsche Cup, 355 Challenge, GT3, etc. classes, as well as any of the SCCA racing going on in the US.
02-19-2004, 05:12 AM
#68
i was with you up until you said, sprint cars and sand rails were "nasty looking". that part was a suppose to be funny i edited the rest of it, i spoke outta turn, my bad, i apoligze btw, skidmarks, works for roar too.
Last edited by ritchie; 02-19-2004 at 08:34 PM.
02-19-2004, 05:32 AM
#69
Originally posted by ritchie
i was with you up until you said, sprint cars and sand rails were "nasty looking".
i was with you up until you said, sprint cars and sand rails were "nasty looking".
by the way how come when ever something happens that isn't right people all of sudden become third partys. i.e. ever hear a news guys say "the media" isn't he the media, frank you say your on the board of roar, but then say its roars fault. don't you mean its "your" fault. just a thought.
Because I don't and never did.
and if this is the frank mckinney i think it is,
then why doesn't your company come out with these bodys that you speak of, is it because while the real viper is one kick butt race car, the viper rc body has to be one of the worst handling bodys ever made, oh it looks real, just doesn't work,
B) I don't work for that company any more (see my location) C) The Team ORECA Viper and its derivatives, yes do handle very well and used to win races, however that's because (IIRC) they were designed by a French (!) racing team and topped with a Viper shell. If you add a front splitter, remove the front grille vents and add a rear diffuser, the r/c Viper would handle great too. Besides, that was years ago in full-size racing and have you tried the Stratus Aero 2?
btw, skidmarks, works for roar too.
02-19-2004, 05:55 AM
#70
Tech Elite
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ROAR has recently tried to get with the ages with the bodies by allowing coupes. I would prefer that the bodies look more like the real thing but I can live with the way the look now.
Chris Raffaelli
ROAR Region 1 Director
Electric On Road Committee Member
Promotions Committee Member
Chris Raffaelli
ROAR Region 1 Director
Electric On Road Committee Member
Promotions Committee Member
02-19-2004, 06:24 AM
#71
That's good to hear Chris, but the body approval committee needs to let the manufacturers know if/when coupe bodies are legal at Nats and other events. HPI has probably a couple dozen bodies that would be legal if ROAR lets JGTC and DTM bodies in the Nationals classes (and by extension at races that use ROAR rules, like the Reedy Race). It would spice things up quite a lot by allowing cars other than the Stratus and Alfa, which could go a long way to getting people more interested in r/c as a whole.
When you show someone new (that presumably you want to be interested in TCs) a field full of Dodge Stratus cars, what's the fun in that? Outwardly it looks as if all the cars are the same and for a fan of motorsports similar to SCCA racing, that's no fun.
Companies like Dahm's, Parma and others would crank out a bunch of GT style bodies as well if they were 'allowed' to. I'd love to see a 550 Maranello chasing a Porsche 996 on the track!
When you show someone new (that presumably you want to be interested in TCs) a field full of Dodge Stratus cars, what's the fun in that? Outwardly it looks as if all the cars are the same and for a fan of motorsports similar to SCCA racing, that's no fun.
Companies like Dahm's, Parma and others would crank out a bunch of GT style bodies as well if they were 'allowed' to. I'd love to see a 550 Maranello chasing a Porsche 996 on the track!
02-19-2004, 07:20 AM
#72
Tech Elite
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I am active with SCCA, a member of the a pit crew and run my M3 on the track a couple of times a month. I have yet to see a Stratus on the track.
02-19-2004, 07:24 AM
#73
Originally posted by Frank McKinney
That's good to hear Chris, but the body approval committee needs to let the manufacturers know if/when coupe bodies are legal at Nats and other events. HPI has probably a couple dozen bodies that would be legal if ROAR lets JGTC and DTM bodies in the Nationals classes (and by extension at races that use ROAR rules, like the Reedy Race). It would spice things up quite a lot by allowing cars other than the Stratus and Alfa, which could go a long way to getting people more interested in r/c as a whole.
When you show someone new (that presumably you want to be interested in TCs) a field full of Dodge Stratus cars, what's the fun in that? Outwardly it looks as if all the cars are the same and for a fan of motorsports similar to SCCA racing, that's no fun.
Companies like Dahm's, Parma and others would crank out a bunch of GT style bodies as well if they were 'allowed' to. I'd love to see a 550 Maranello chasing a Porsche 996 on the track!
That's good to hear Chris, but the body approval committee needs to let the manufacturers know if/when coupe bodies are legal at Nats and other events. HPI has probably a couple dozen bodies that would be legal if ROAR lets JGTC and DTM bodies in the Nationals classes (and by extension at races that use ROAR rules, like the Reedy Race). It would spice things up quite a lot by allowing cars other than the Stratus and Alfa, which could go a long way to getting people more interested in r/c as a whole.
When you show someone new (that presumably you want to be interested in TCs) a field full of Dodge Stratus cars, what's the fun in that? Outwardly it looks as if all the cars are the same and for a fan of motorsports similar to SCCA racing, that's no fun.
Companies like Dahm's, Parma and others would crank out a bunch of GT style bodies as well if they were 'allowed' to. I'd love to see a 550 Maranello chasing a Porsche 996 on the track!
02-19-2004, 08:51 AM
#74
Tech Elite
VERY IMPORTANT: (Oh Brother)
Guys;
Plain and simple:
1) Racers (of any size Vehicle) want the best handling car that they can have. This is the reason you see so may 'Stratus' bodies on our R/C cars. Believe me, if other bodies worked as well, you would see less of the 'S'.
2) The general public (spectators) would notice little or any difference from their viewpoint if the bodies were more scale like (IMHO).
3) With their current speeds and power levels, 1/8th scale bodies NEED to be aerodynamic over anything, so function wins over aesthetics.
4) For those posts that are just a little bit more than annoying. Go to the 'Control Panel' at the top of the Forums page, then click on the "Ignor User" option. Type in their name and.......
Plain and simple:
1) Racers (of any size Vehicle) want the best handling car that they can have. This is the reason you see so may 'Stratus' bodies on our R/C cars. Believe me, if other bodies worked as well, you would see less of the 'S'.
2) The general public (spectators) would notice little or any difference from their viewpoint if the bodies were more scale like (IMHO).
3) With their current speeds and power levels, 1/8th scale bodies NEED to be aerodynamic over anything, so function wins over aesthetics.
4) For those posts that are just a little bit more than annoying. Go to the 'Control Panel' at the top of the Forums page, then click on the "Ignor User" option. Type in their name and.......
Last edited by popsracer; 02-19-2004 at 08:58 AM.
02-19-2004, 05:21 PM
#75
i guess all the time that skidmarks has put in as a regional director isn't really WORK .
and the name on the title under owner of my car is the banks name, but its still MY car.
sorry frank, my bad, i spoke of which i did not know so edited this post and the previous one too. i guess i need more sleep
and the name on the title under owner of my car is the banks name, but its still MY car.
sorry frank, my bad, i spoke of which i did not know so edited this post and the previous one too. i guess i need more sleep
Last edited by ritchie; 02-19-2004 at 08:37 PM.