Prototype ESC's - ROAR, Legal, Fair, Sportsmanship, Opinions?
09-15-2009, 12:33 PM
#331
Quit whining Adam. You got a bigger trophy for finishing your race than I got for winning mine. This discussion involves the racers with a whole lot more talents than us.
09-15-2009, 12:41 PM
#332
09-15-2009, 12:50 PM
#333
There's another esc, Orca Vritra TC Spec for stock touring cars. I'm running Tekin RS Pro V200 and haven't found a setup that would beat this. So much low end grunt, smooth mid range drive and tremendous speed. And the transition is seamless... seems to just keep going no matter how long the straights are. I believe only a handful of drivers are running this in the states.
This is a pic of an Rctech members car. He finished 3rd in the recent roar region 3 race at Rosewood R/C Raceway....
This is a pic of an Rctech members car. He finished 3rd in the recent roar region 3 race at Rosewood R/C Raceway....
09-15-2009, 01:11 PM
#334
I was at the IIC and on their own they looked fast, but when running with equal traffic they had no distinct advantage, or at least via voltage, from the mid part of the sweeper to the hard braking hairpin is where most of the time was made up (and I believe that was done via the boost setting). The track itself was decieveing to drive and as much as .4 of a second could easily be left on the track if a tight line was not run.
As far as the speedo wiring goes, this isn't something new. I have run that configuration on brushless and brushed speed controls, with 4 cell nimh as well. All it does is keep the servo speed up and better constant signal strength to the speedo(You don't get a twitch or pull to the side on hard acceleration). I have run this with a rxr pack and even with a AAA cell. I got this setup over 2 years ago, and that was from Flying Nemisis, and I'm sure he was using it for quite some time. The only thing it really helps is that it makes your steering react at a normal speed.
From what I saw and looked at, if I had a choice, this is the setup I would use over a booster, (sorry Barry), you just can't substitute voltage, or make voltage out of a lower voltgage, or at least not in the cofiguration and weight we are looking for.
The other item on their cars is only a 2200 mfd capacitor. They had all their cars sitting on a table and you could pretty much pick them up and look at them all you wanted, I did.
The milled heat sink is like the LRP low profile one, I'm sure someone () could actually determine how much of a heat sink is required over a 8 minute run to be effecient and yet not over weight.
As far as the speedo wiring goes, this isn't something new. I have run that configuration on brushless and brushed speed controls, with 4 cell nimh as well. All it does is keep the servo speed up and better constant signal strength to the speedo(You don't get a twitch or pull to the side on hard acceleration). I have run this with a rxr pack and even with a AAA cell. I got this setup over 2 years ago, and that was from Flying Nemisis, and I'm sure he was using it for quite some time. The only thing it really helps is that it makes your steering react at a normal speed.
From what I saw and looked at, if I had a choice, this is the setup I would use over a booster, (sorry Barry), you just can't substitute voltage, or make voltage out of a lower voltgage, or at least not in the cofiguration and weight we are looking for.
The other item on their cars is only a 2200 mfd capacitor. They had all their cars sitting on a table and you could pretty much pick them up and look at them all you wanted, I did.
The milled heat sink is like the LRP low profile one, I'm sure someone () could actually determine how much of a heat sink is required over a 8 minute run to be effecient and yet not over weight.
09-15-2009, 01:33 PM
#335
Tech Rookie
Black Diamond ESC
I have been in touch earlier today with Advanced Electronics and they say it is okay that i show som pictures of my own speedo, and give some info on it. This summer I had the opportunity to run my buggy with one of the early prototype, and all I can say that this speedo kick ass. It have fantastic throttle respons and give great control of the car. The size of the speed is aprox 33mm x 40mm and I think it is one of the smallest High-end speedos today.
I have seen many people posting lots of stange mumbo-jumbo theorys according this speedo. Let give som facts!
It is no hidden secrets inside the speedo, just pure state of the art design and lots of tesing and burn-out versions before this one were released. They have done the homework how a speedo should bee designed. Åke (one of the owner of Advanced) is very experienced of designing ESC:s. He have made speedos for over 20 years now. (Will post som picures tomorow of the speedo)
Lindenhill
I have seen many people posting lots of stange mumbo-jumbo theorys according this speedo. Let give som facts!
It is no hidden secrets inside the speedo, just pure state of the art design and lots of tesing and burn-out versions before this one were released. They have done the homework how a speedo should bee designed. Åke (one of the owner of Advanced) is very experienced of designing ESC:s. He have made speedos for over 20 years now. (Will post som picures tomorow of the speedo)
Lindenhill
09-15-2009, 02:56 PM
#336
Tech Adept
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Whew!!! The end finally. I will get docked 30 minutes of pay for reading this past my break. I just couldn't put it down. Nice one Kn. 
09-15-2009, 03:09 PM
#337
Tech Elite
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 5280 Raceway. Denver's finest RC facility
Posts: 4,780
i would also like it to be known that frank offered to pull brian from the 17.5 class at the big secret meeting (to which some very impoortant people were not invited) friday night. the promoters of the race wanted hiim to run a "normal" speedo, but the choice was up to us. we said we would do that if brian could have some open track time and practice to get the gearing down right for the main.
they offered us a total track time of 8 minutes, to be used as we wished. needless to say, one 8 minute run was not sufficent enough for brian to feel comfortable with gearing going into the main on saturday. these are guys that race on a 30 by 60 track at home, and this being their first race with the single cell lipo, the decision was made to run it as it was.
this post is not to slam anyone, scotty and crew put on an excelent race and the tech team did all that was within their power to find out if everything was on the up and up. they deemed that it was. i was running one in world gt, and my car was 2 to 4 tenths a lap quicker with it. no one even made a fuss about me. was it because my driving took me out of a winng car or was it that his driving plus a top fuel speedo made a winning car even better?
i am going to continue to watch this thread, but i feel like i have said all i need to say.
they offered us a total track time of 8 minutes, to be used as we wished. needless to say, one 8 minute run was not sufficent enough for brian to feel comfortable with gearing going into the main on saturday. these are guys that race on a 30 by 60 track at home, and this being their first race with the single cell lipo, the decision was made to run it as it was.
this post is not to slam anyone, scotty and crew put on an excelent race and the tech team did all that was within their power to find out if everything was on the up and up. they deemed that it was. i was running one in world gt, and my car was 2 to 4 tenths a lap quicker with it. no one even made a fuss about me. was it because my driving took me out of a winng car or was it that his driving plus a top fuel speedo made a winning car even better?
i am going to continue to watch this thread, but i feel like i have said all i need to say.
09-15-2009, 04:33 PM
#339
09-15-2009, 05:49 PM
#341
You think.... This is far from signed, sealed, and delivered...
Since we are driving computer technology deeper into the equation as each month passes, I propose that ROAR adopt a new rule, a rule used in several different types of racing around the world. The rule that ROAR should adopt is a homologation rule. This would easily prevent this type of "advantage" (no pun intended) in the future in all classes except modified.
Homologation can be easily enforced by requiring that any components used in Amateur, Stock, or Super Stock classes be publicly available in quantity to anyone for a 90-day period prior to a race date. Homologation will allow EVERYONE in attendance for the race to be on an equal field. If the race director determines that any components used in these classes were not readily available to the public prior to the race date, the parts, components, or electronics will be disqualified for the race. If you want to use special, one-off, limited availability, components, do it in modified first, as these are the premier classes for the top drivers anyhow. The homologation rule should apply to the car, electronics, bodies, batteries, and tires.
Anyone - Why would we want manufacturers and their drivers to come and dominate Stock and Superstock? Isn't modified racing where the glory is? Wouldn't it be nice to see an independent come out of the shadows and win a event.
The way I see it, CRC purposely withheld technology that provided them a distinct advantage. CRC admitted they have been racing with and improving the speedo since 2008. They could have easily prototyped the speedo and proven it on the local tracks, then released it to the public before coming to the big races. Instead, they withheld their ESC so they could attempt claim more victory's. I clearly understand that this is not the first time anything like this has happened by any number of manufacturers, but maybe it is time to try and stop it.
Since we are driving computer technology deeper into the equation as each month passes, I propose that ROAR adopt a new rule, a rule used in several different types of racing around the world. The rule that ROAR should adopt is a homologation rule. This would easily prevent this type of "advantage" (no pun intended) in the future in all classes except modified.
Homologation can be easily enforced by requiring that any components used in Amateur, Stock, or Super Stock classes be publicly available in quantity to anyone for a 90-day period prior to a race date. Homologation will allow EVERYONE in attendance for the race to be on an equal field. If the race director determines that any components used in these classes were not readily available to the public prior to the race date, the parts, components, or electronics will be disqualified for the race. If you want to use special, one-off, limited availability, components, do it in modified first, as these are the premier classes for the top drivers anyhow. The homologation rule should apply to the car, electronics, bodies, batteries, and tires.
Anyone - Why would we want manufacturers and their drivers to come and dominate Stock and Superstock? Isn't modified racing where the glory is? Wouldn't it be nice to see an independent come out of the shadows and win a event.
The way I see it, CRC purposely withheld technology that provided them a distinct advantage. CRC admitted they have been racing with and improving the speedo since 2008. They could have easily prototyped the speedo and proven it on the local tracks, then released it to the public before coming to the big races. Instead, they withheld their ESC so they could attempt claim more victory's. I clearly understand that this is not the first time anything like this has happened by any number of manufacturers, but maybe it is time to try and stop it.
09-15-2009, 05:58 PM
#342
There's another esc, Orca Vritra TC Spec for stock touring cars. I'm running Tekin RS Pro V200 and haven't found a setup that would beat this. So much low end grunt, smooth mid range drive and tremendous speed. And the transition is seamless... seems to just keep going no matter how long the straights are. I believe only a handful of drivers are running this in the states.
This is a pic of an Rctech members car. He finished 3rd in the recent roar region 3 race at Rosewood R/C Raceway....
This is a pic of an Rctech members car. He finished 3rd in the recent roar region 3 race at Rosewood R/C Raceway....
Getting back to the discussion. I really don't care if someone runs an experimental esc. It's real world testing that may make or break the design and let them work out any bugs. It's the same as prototype car parts, etc, etc. Also don't forget, I'm sure there are other prototypes running around hidden in old cases. No need to tech for it. Just be sure to tech for voltage. I think someone posted on our Rosewood forum some TOUR rules for pan car oval. I think they have a way they check for receiver pack/cheating, etc etc. Take a look at those rules. Maybe apply them to Roar.
09-15-2009, 06:05 PM
#343
A quote from CRC's website:
Classic
With Hupo's 4th place finish, he won the "non-Advanced" speed control division.
09-15-2009, 06:30 PM
#344
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
You think.... This is far from signed, sealed, and delivered...
Since we are driving computer technology deeper into the equation as each month passes, I propose that ROAR adopt a new rule, a rule used in several different types of racing around the world. The rule that ROAR should adopt is a homologation rule. This would easily prevent this type of "advantage" (no pun intended) in the future in all classes except modified.
Homologation can be easily enforced by requiring that any components used in Amateur, Stock, or Super Stock classes be publicly available in quantity to anyone for a 90-day period prior to a race date. Homologation will allow EVERYONE in attendance for the race to be on an equal field. If the race director determines that any components used in these classes were not readily available to the public prior to the race date, the parts, components, or electronics will be disqualified for the race. If you want to use special, one-off, limited availability, components, do it in modified first, as these are the premier classes for the top drivers anyhow. The homologation rule should apply to the car, electronics, bodies, batteries, and tires.
Anyone - Why would we want manufacturers and their drivers to come and dominate Stock and Superstock? Isn't modified racing where the glory is? Wouldn't it be nice to see an independent come out of the shadows and win a event.
The way I see it, CRC purposely withheld technology that provided them a distinct advantage. CRC admitted they have been racing with and improving the speedo since 2008. They could have easily prototyped the speedo and proven it on the local tracks, then released it to the public before coming to the big races. Instead, they withheld their ESC so they could attempt claim more victory's. I clearly understand that this is not the first time anything like this has happened by any number of manufacturers, but maybe it is time to try and stop it.
Since we are driving computer technology deeper into the equation as each month passes, I propose that ROAR adopt a new rule, a rule used in several different types of racing around the world. The rule that ROAR should adopt is a homologation rule. This would easily prevent this type of "advantage" (no pun intended) in the future in all classes except modified.
Homologation can be easily enforced by requiring that any components used in Amateur, Stock, or Super Stock classes be publicly available in quantity to anyone for a 90-day period prior to a race date. Homologation will allow EVERYONE in attendance for the race to be on an equal field. If the race director determines that any components used in these classes were not readily available to the public prior to the race date, the parts, components, or electronics will be disqualified for the race. If you want to use special, one-off, limited availability, components, do it in modified first, as these are the premier classes for the top drivers anyhow. The homologation rule should apply to the car, electronics, bodies, batteries, and tires.
Anyone - Why would we want manufacturers and their drivers to come and dominate Stock and Superstock? Isn't modified racing where the glory is? Wouldn't it be nice to see an independent come out of the shadows and win a event.
The way I see it, CRC purposely withheld technology that provided them a distinct advantage. CRC admitted they have been racing with and improving the speedo since 2008. They could have easily prototyped the speedo and proven it on the local tracks, then released it to the public before coming to the big races. Instead, they withheld their ESC so they could attempt claim more victory's. I clearly understand that this is not the first time anything like this has happened by any number of manufacturers, but maybe it is time to try and stop it.
And what other companies learn will get to their customers as well. Does Tekin, LRP, Novak and KO have your number so they can let you know they found something. I would hate for them to feel your wrath as well.
We would have put it Hupo's cars as well, but he is a factory LRP driver and is under contract to use their products. He did not need the speedo to win mod, he did just fine without it :-)
The truth is now out there. Like it or hate it, it is just that, the truth.
Brian Wynn
Team CRC