OS 12 TzR
06-30-2005, 10:05 PM
#421
No problem.
Basically, in the simplest terms, once you know where the compression should be set (like I told above) then you can use shims to tune the motor- less compression= more top end and coversely, more compression means mroe bottom end with a little top end loss.
On the glow plugs, well...... it's not that easy. But the good news is that you have the correct information to go by now and you can use temperature (both ambient air and motor temp) and the feel of the car to tune the glow plug.
Here's a basic idea on glow plugs- you want the coolest plug you can run w/o giving up dependability (idle quality, etc) and overall power. Cooler motor equals cooler denser air up to the point that you are giving up dependability and/or power. On my TZ I've found that it likes to be around 210F and come off the track from 210-220F. I use a P7 or P8 depending on the air temps to keep it there. With the P8 I actually got it a little lean to the point it felt soft on the straight but was still coming off the track below 230F. It's a perfect example of why you can't use temps to fine tune the motor, but you can use them help you stay in the ballpark and to help diagnose the motor if a problem arises that you can't see with the naked eye.
Basically, in the simplest terms, once you know where the compression should be set (like I told above) then you can use shims to tune the motor- less compression= more top end and coversely, more compression means mroe bottom end with a little top end loss.
On the glow plugs, well...... it's not that easy. But the good news is that you have the correct information to go by now and you can use temperature (both ambient air and motor temp) and the feel of the car to tune the glow plug.
Here's a basic idea on glow plugs- you want the coolest plug you can run w/o giving up dependability (idle quality, etc) and overall power. Cooler motor equals cooler denser air up to the point that you are giving up dependability and/or power. On my TZ I've found that it likes to be around 210F and come off the track from 210-220F. I use a P7 or P8 depending on the air temps to keep it there. With the P8 I actually got it a little lean to the point it felt soft on the straight but was still coming off the track below 230F. It's a perfect example of why you can't use temps to fine tune the motor, but you can use them help you stay in the ballpark and to help diagnose the motor if a problem arises that you can't see with the naked eye.
06-30-2005, 10:58 PM
#422
Originally Posted by BundyMan
Read the article over the evening. Max hp at about 38,000 rpm, 1.87hp. But let's not forget, 30% nitro, P7 glow plug was used. Anyway, the torque curve was pretty flat which is a good thing and the engine was revved all the way to 45,000 rpm and according to the writer, it still have some reserves!! And in some Japanese Magazine, RC world, you can see a serious bad @$$ looking M Speed OS TZ. The crankshaft is ported extensively 
(from the pic) 
(from the pic)
06-30-2005, 11:10 PM
#423
Originally Posted by BigDogRacing
No problem.
Basically, in the simplest terms, once you know where the compression should be set (like I told above) then you can use shims to tune the motor- less compression= more top end and coversely, more compression means mroe bottom end with a little top end loss.
On the glow plugs, well...... it's not that easy. But the good news is that you have the correct information to go by now and you can use temperature (both ambient air and motor temp) and the feel of the car to tune the glow plug.
Here's a basic idea on glow plugs- you want the coolest plug you can run w/o giving up dependability (idle quality, etc) and overall power. Cooler motor equals cooler denser air up to the point that you are giving up dependability and/or power. On my TZ I've found that it likes to be around 210F and come off the track from 210-220F. I use a P7 or P8 depending on the air temps to keep it there. With the P8 I actually got it a little lean to the point it felt soft on the straight but was still coming off the track below 230F. It's a perfect example of why you can't use temps to fine tune the motor, but you can use them help you stay in the ballpark and to help diagnose the motor if a problem arises that you can't see with the naked eye.
Basically, in the simplest terms, once you know where the compression should be set (like I told above) then you can use shims to tune the motor- less compression= more top end and coversely, more compression means mroe bottom end with a little top end loss.
On the glow plugs, well...... it's not that easy. But the good news is that you have the correct information to go by now and you can use temperature (both ambient air and motor temp) and the feel of the car to tune the glow plug.
Here's a basic idea on glow plugs- you want the coolest plug you can run w/o giving up dependability (idle quality, etc) and overall power. Cooler motor equals cooler denser air up to the point that you are giving up dependability and/or power. On my TZ I've found that it likes to be around 210F and come off the track from 210-220F. I use a P7 or P8 depending on the air temps to keep it there. With the P8 I actually got it a little lean to the point it felt soft on the straight but was still coming off the track below 230F. It's a perfect example of why you can't use temps to fine tune the motor, but you can use them help you stay in the ballpark and to help diagnose the motor if a problem arises that you can't see with the naked eye.
06-30-2005, 11:17 PM
#424
Originally Posted by BundyMan
Silver M3, are you running the inline 1040 L52 pipe or the L70 (7mm)??
How does it compare to others?
Thanks
How does it compare to others?
Thanks
07-01-2005, 02:29 PM
#425
Tech Regular
Originally Posted by silverM3
Thx. What exactly is a turbo plug? This can't be turbo on the type of engine we are using.
07-01-2005, 04:31 PM
#426
Ok Bigdogracing,
I've got .4mm shim total and a P8 (cold) plug and I am racing two days, saturday and sunday (both just club races) to test your advice. It's going to about 100F both days.
Wish me luck.
I've got .4mm shim total and a P8 (cold) plug and I am racing two days, saturday and sunday (both just club races) to test your advice. It's going to about 100F both days.
Wish me luck.
07-01-2005, 04:33 PM
#427
Originally Posted by Z00M
Pipes:
I am running the TZ with the current VR12 skyline pipe and it's a fantastic combination.
Tuning:
If you find that the engine revs up when hot, then you've set the LSN too rich before you went out for your qualifier. I experienced this also thinking I was looking after the engine and it doesn't like it at all. Lean the LSN a little and rich the HSN a little until you find the balance. Current sleeve material in this OS engine works really well at operating temp but is very tight when cold.
IFMAR/EFRA Legal?:
The crank is legal in it's bore size and the turbo cut does not contact the centre bore so it makes it legal for both IFMAR and EFRA sanctioned events.
I have been running this motor for almost 8 litres (2 gallons) and it is still tight when cold and the conrod is not showing much wear at all. I am super surprised with the performance and now the longevity.
Cheers,
Mike.
I am running the TZ with the current VR12 skyline pipe and it's a fantastic combination.
Tuning:
If you find that the engine revs up when hot, then you've set the LSN too rich before you went out for your qualifier. I experienced this also thinking I was looking after the engine and it doesn't like it at all. Lean the LSN a little and rich the HSN a little until you find the balance. Current sleeve material in this OS engine works really well at operating temp but is very tight when cold.
IFMAR/EFRA Legal?:
The crank is legal in it's bore size and the turbo cut does not contact the centre bore so it makes it legal for both IFMAR and EFRA sanctioned events.
I have been running this motor for almost 8 litres (2 gallons) and it is still tight when cold and the conrod is not showing much wear at all. I am super surprised with the performance and now the longevity.
Cheers,
Mike.
07-02-2005, 07:53 AM
#428
Hi
Whats the part no for the TZR? The TZ(P) is OS-11373. Is this the EFRA legal one?
Cheers
Whats the part no for the TZR? The TZ(P) is OS-11373. Is this the EFRA legal one?
Cheers
07-03-2005, 05:06 AM
#429
Originally Posted by Sow&Steady
Zoom, this is the TZR I assume? Thanks for the summary.
)The 11373 part number is the engine I bought. It's a 3 port slide carb SG shaft version. I think the other numbers are for a mixture of rotary carb, 5 ports, threaded crank, etc.
I am wondering if there is a marketing switcheroo that is making everyone confused. I bought my motor from Hong Kong so I don't know if there is a 'TZR' version in the states or in Europe (a french driver started this thread I think?) or what the go is.
I think at least we are all talking about the same part numbers.
07-03-2005, 09:10 AM
#430
Tech Regular
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
Hi
Whats the part no for the TZR? The TZ(P) is OS-11373. Is this the EFRA legal one?
Cheers
Whats the part no for the TZR? The TZ(P) is OS-11373. Is this the EFRA legal one?
Cheers
07-05-2005, 08:06 PM
#431
Originally Posted by edracer1
Ok Bigdogracing,
I've got .4mm shim total and a P8 (cold) plug and I am racing two days, saturday and sunday (both just club races) to test your advice. It's going to about 100F both days. Wish me luck.
I've got .4mm shim total and a P8 (cold) plug and I am racing two days, saturday and sunday (both just club races) to test your advice. It's going to about 100F both days.
Wish me luck.
07-05-2005, 08:11 PM
#432
BTW- I'll be at the Nats next week. I'm not an OS rep, and I'm certainly not as good as Ron or many of the top drivers, but if I can halp any of you guys with your motor tuning or reading the glow plug etc, just stop by. I'll probably be pitting with or near Ron Atomic. I'm 6'3", dirty blond hair (what's left of it) and I race a NTC3. Shouldn't be too hard to find- just ask for Big Dog Racing
07-05-2005, 10:43 PM
#433
Whats up Bigdogracing,
Well I ran both days at the two different hobby stores here in Austin, (one north "4th place" and one south "1st place"). But due to the holiday there were not many racers but enough for a couple of classes. Anyway, to really test just the shims and plug changes I did not change my needle settings (until later) ..SO.. I first ran with .4mm shims and the P8 plug and the engine seemed a bit slower and cooler (210 deg) but the low end was not there and it really spit out some fuel, really rich here. So I put the original P6 plug back in and it was a little quicker on the low end and temp was higher (235 deg). Then I put the original .3mm shims back in with the P6 plug and it was even quicker on the low end but the temp was (265 deg) but this was my fastest setting with smoke from the pipe. Finally ran with the .3 mm shims and the P8 plug for the rest of the day with my temps like (220-235 deg). With this plug I could lean it more..like a couple hours without it getting hotter and once it warmed up it seemed to idle better. It does load up some so I have to blip the throttle sometimes but at full temps it will idle for quite a while. Also, with this plug it still seems to run a bit rich (maybe just needs more time to break in or just lean both high and low needles a lot) More, these are small tracks so I'll change my gearing to get more of a low end punch (which is what I felt I was really lacking). But I was running aganist some mod engines which seemed really quick and I could only keep up with them on the top end (for a bit). Again, thanks for the lessons in tuning And maybe, just maybe I'll get to make it to Dallas for the NATS... If I can take off work.
Well I ran both days at the two different hobby stores here in Austin, (one north "4th place" and one south "1st place"). But due to the holiday there were not many racers but enough for a couple of classes. Anyway, to really test just the shims and plug changes I did not change my needle settings (until later) ..SO.. I first ran with .4mm shims and the P8 plug and the engine seemed a bit slower and cooler (210 deg) but the low end was not there and it really spit out some fuel, really rich here. So I put the original P6 plug back in and it was a little quicker on the low end and temp was higher (235 deg). Then I put the original .3mm shims back in with the P6 plug and it was even quicker on the low end but the temp was (265 deg) but this was my fastest setting with smoke from the pipe. Finally ran with the .3 mm shims and the P8 plug for the rest of the day with my temps like (220-235 deg). With this plug I could lean it more..like a couple hours without it getting hotter and once it warmed up it seemed to idle better. It does load up some so I have to blip the throttle sometimes but at full temps it will idle for quite a while. Also, with this plug it still seems to run a bit rich (maybe just needs more time to break in or just lean both high and low needles a lot) More, these are small tracks so I'll change my gearing to get more of a low end punch (which is what I felt I was really lacking). But I was running aganist some mod engines which seemed really quick and I could only keep up with them on the top end (for a bit). Again, thanks for the lessons in tuning
And maybe, just maybe I'll get to make it to Dallas for the NATS... If I can take off work.
Last edited by edracer1; 07-06-2005 at 04:13 PM.
07-06-2005, 12:56 PM
#434
Originally Posted by Z00M
I have a feeling there is no such thing as a TZR (I'm happy to be corrected of course )
The 11373 part number is the engine I bought. It's a 3 port slide carb SG shaft version. I think the other numbers are for a mixture of rotary carb, 5 ports, threaded crank, etc.
I am wondering if there is a marketing switcheroo that is making everyone confused. I bought my motor from Hong Kong so I don't know if there is a 'TZR' version in the states or in Europe (a french driver started this thread I think?) or what the go is.
I think at least we are all talking about the same part numbers.
)The 11373 part number is the engine I bought. It's a 3 port slide carb SG shaft version. I think the other numbers are for a mixture of rotary carb, 5 ports, threaded crank, etc.
I am wondering if there is a marketing switcheroo that is making everyone confused. I bought my motor from Hong Kong so I don't know if there is a 'TZR' version in the states or in Europe (a french driver started this thread I think?) or what the go is.
I think at least we are all talking about the same part numbers.
07-06-2005, 04:19 PM
#435
Tech Initiate
OS .12 TZ vs NovaRossi RR12
Hey all you os tz engine owners, how would you rate the tz over the NovaRossi rr12 (which obviously i have...)?? The rr12 is a long stroke and has fantastic bottom end for great acceleration on a short track. Looked at the numbers form article saying 5-port tz makes over 1.8hp/38000 rpm. Impressive..can anyone confirm how this 5-port tz runs?? Willing to change as I know the os is cheaper too...