3LikesTamiya TRF415
12-02-2003, 10:17 AM
#451
Tech Adept
Its impossible for me to say, i've never used it. But its not all about straight line speed and acceleration, there are so many more factors which make a chassis good. Please try telling me the EVO 3 is better than the 414...now that is a joke!!
12-02-2003, 10:20 AM
#452
I cannot tell you ... because I never owned a TRF 414 
Tell me this ... why are all other companies (Yokomo, HPI, etc.) upgrading to shaft drive and you are still stuck with belt drive?
Do you really think a belt drive can perform better than a shaft drive?
Tell me this ... why are all other companies (Yokomo, HPI, etc.) upgrading to shaft drive and you are still stuck with belt drive?
Do you really think a belt drive can perform better than a shaft drive?
12-02-2003, 10:25 AM
#453
Tech Adept
I believe shaft drive does have its advantages, but i think its a phase/trend to be honest. Many other companies are sticking with belt remember: Tech, schumacher, xray, atlas just to name a few.
And as I said before its hard to say which is better as there are so many other factors. but i will say i believe belt can be as good.
And as I said before its hard to say which is better as there are so many other factors. but i will say i believe belt can be as good.
12-02-2003, 10:29 AM
#454
Tech Initiate
Better? Maybe...
The drive train is not the issue. If you build the shaft drive car with poor pinion backlash (to the ring gear, not the spur) or set the diff spacing incorrectly or tighten the diff casings incorrectly or etc. the shaft car will be inefficient. The same goes for the belt car.
The advantage of the shaft drive is the shaft will not need to be replaced as often as the belts. As far as effecient systems, the shaft drive is very free on the work bench, but under load a bevel gear is not as efficient as a spur gear. Therfore, under load both systems when properly set-up will give similar results in the right hands.
One advantage of the belt car over the shaft (speaking as a XXX-S to TC3 driver) is stability under braking, and consistancy under acceleration. But there are solutions for the shaft drive diffeciency that again evens the playing feild...
In the end, winning big races (worlds, nationals, etc.) is down to driving skill, set-up and power. Barry would win with belts, shaft, direct drive, what-ever (remember he used to win with a MR4-TC!!)
And these cars are being offered to joe-everybodies. We chose what we can set-up and drive the best (i.e. some people prefer a TA-04 to a TRF414), and what we car get parts for (try buying Schumacher parts where I live!!).
Please, no flaming. Just keep posting WHATEVER photos you come across.
Phil Matthews #99
Gizzmo Racing
P.S. rtypec, how rigid is the complete car (seeing as you had it in your hands, lucky dog!)?
The advantage of the shaft drive is the shaft will not need to be replaced as often as the belts. As far as effecient systems, the shaft drive is very free on the work bench, but under load a bevel gear is not as efficient as a spur gear. Therfore, under load both systems when properly set-up will give similar results in the right hands.
One advantage of the belt car over the shaft (speaking as a XXX-S to TC3 driver) is stability under braking, and consistancy under acceleration. But there are solutions for the shaft drive diffeciency that again evens the playing feild...
In the end, winning big races (worlds, nationals, etc.) is down to driving skill, set-up and power. Barry would win with belts, shaft, direct drive, what-ever (remember he used to win with a MR4-TC!!)
And these cars are being offered to joe-everybodies. We chose what we can set-up and drive the best (i.e. some people prefer a TA-04 to a TRF414), and what we car get parts for (try buying Schumacher parts where I live!!).
Please, no flaming. Just keep posting WHATEVER photos you come across.
Phil Matthews #99
Gizzmo Racing
P.S. rtypec, how rigid is the complete car (seeing as you had it in your hands, lucky dog!)?
12-02-2003, 10:29 AM
#455
belts, shaft, 2 belts, single belt, shafts, angled belts, straight belts are all only options in chasis designs, IMHO.
It's not that straight forward to judge any belts is better than any shaft, as you have to consider the whole design package.
I hope we don't have to argue about this issue here.
414M2 better than Evo3, 415 better than Evo3..what about Evo4 better than 415? If TRF would run Evo4 at the next Worlds, does it mean Evo4 is better than 415? or vice versa ...
Just enjoy your ride (whatever that is). Let those factory drivers do their job.
It's not that straight forward to judge any belts is better than any shaft, as you have to consider the whole design package.
I hope we don't have to argue about this issue here.
414M2 better than Evo3, 415 better than Evo3..what about Evo4 better than 415? If TRF would run Evo4 at the next Worlds, does it mean Evo4 is better than 415? or vice versa ...
Just enjoy your ride (whatever that is). Let those factory drivers do their job.
12-02-2003, 10:36 AM
#456
Tech Fanatic
Lets tell it how it is, 404x was the first proper tamiya touring car, then came the 414 the evo 1 and 2, then came the worlds win with the 414, then out comes the evo 3 the first proper attempt by tamiya at building a good shaft drive car, now the 415 is coming out, the 415 is a evolution of a 414 not a replacment for the evo range. Tamiya want to keep there fingers in both pies, belt and shaft drive. IMHO the Evo 3 is the best car Tamiya have produced up to this moment in time that the general public can purchase.
Rick
Rick
12-02-2003, 10:55 AM
#457
In my opinion, 415 is not any evolution of the 414. They are both 2 belts design but came from different 'concepts'. TB Evo series are another concept.
As for rigidity, the 415 is more rigid than then TB Evo3. But the most rigid chasis found during the Reedy Asia was probably the Barracuda R3 prototype with those glittering/ sparkling carbon parts.
As for rigidity, the 415 is more rigid than then TB Evo3. But the most rigid chasis found during the Reedy Asia was probably the Barracuda R3 prototype with those glittering/ sparkling carbon parts.
12-02-2003, 10:56 AM
#458
here are some more pics my buddy dug out for me on some chinese forum that i cant read ha ha
12-02-2003, 11:06 AM
#459
12-02-2003, 11:11 AM
#460
Originally posted by g4t2
I believe shaft drive does have its advantages, but i think its a phase/trend to be honest. Many other companies are sticking with belt remember: Tech, schumacher, xray, atlas just to name a few.
I believe shaft drive does have its advantages, but i think its a phase/trend to be honest. Many other companies are sticking with belt remember: Tech, schumacher, xray, atlas just to name a few.
TB Evo3, Barracuda, Yokomo, HPI and we can expect XRay to announce their shaft driven prototype anytime now.
In Japan, TC3 has been the most popular then it's very close between Yokomo SD and Tamiya TB Evo i.e. shaft driven cars are more popular than belts.
12-02-2003, 11:51 AM
#461
Karn's 415
taken during the Reedy Asia race week 12Nov
12-02-2003, 12:14 PM
#462
Tech Addict
Originally posted by Rick Draper
Tamiya want to keep there fingers in both pies
Tamiya want to keep there fingers in both pies
Dick, I don't think it's their fingers they have in the pies...
Maybe I should stop watching American Pie
12-02-2003, 12:17 PM
#463
Tech Addict
Re: Better? Maybe...
Originally posted by pilmat
The drive train is not the issue. If you build the shaft drive car with poor pinion backlash (to the ring gear, not the spur) or set the diff spacing incorrectly or tighten the diff casings incorrectly or etc. the shaft car will be inefficient. The same goes for the belt car.
The advantage of the shaft drive is the shaft will not need to be replaced as often as the belts. As far as effecient systems, the shaft drive is very free on the work bench, but under load a bevel gear is not as efficient as a spur gear. Therfore, under load both systems when properly set-up will give similar results in the right hands.
One advantage of the belt car over the shaft (speaking as a XXX-S to TC3 driver) is stability under braking, and consistancy under acceleration. But there are solutions for the shaft drive diffeciency that again evens the playing feild...
In the end, winning big races (worlds, nationals, etc.) is down to driving skill, set-up and power. Barry would win with belts, shaft, direct drive, what-ever (remember he used to win with a MR4-TC!!)
And these cars are being offered to joe-everybodies. We chose what we can set-up and drive the best (i.e. some people prefer a TA-04 to a TRF414), and what we car get parts for (try buying Schumacher parts where I live!!).
Please, no flaming. Just keep posting WHATEVER photos you come across.
Phil Matthews #99
Gizzmo Racing
P.S. rtypec, how rigid is the complete car (seeing as you had it in your hands, lucky dog!)?
The drive train is not the issue. If you build the shaft drive car with poor pinion backlash (to the ring gear, not the spur) or set the diff spacing incorrectly or tighten the diff casings incorrectly or etc. the shaft car will be inefficient. The same goes for the belt car.
The advantage of the shaft drive is the shaft will not need to be replaced as often as the belts. As far as effecient systems, the shaft drive is very free on the work bench, but under load a bevel gear is not as efficient as a spur gear. Therfore, under load both systems when properly set-up will give similar results in the right hands.
One advantage of the belt car over the shaft (speaking as a XXX-S to TC3 driver) is stability under braking, and consistancy under acceleration. But there are solutions for the shaft drive diffeciency that again evens the playing feild...
In the end, winning big races (worlds, nationals, etc.) is down to driving skill, set-up and power. Barry would win with belts, shaft, direct drive, what-ever (remember he used to win with a MR4-TC!!)
And these cars are being offered to joe-everybodies. We chose what we can set-up and drive the best (i.e. some people prefer a TA-04 to a TRF414), and what we car get parts for (try buying Schumacher parts where I live!!).
Please, no flaming. Just keep posting WHATEVER photos you come across.
Phil Matthews #99
Gizzmo Racing
P.S. rtypec, how rigid is the complete car (seeing as you had it in your hands, lucky dog!)?
I have nothing better to say than that. Both drives have proven to be Efficient, and with a modified motor the difference between the two will make no difference in speed / runtime at all if both are properly setup.
I can tell you as I have a 414M and a SD that on the straight with the same motor and ratio there is no difference and lap times were the same.
12-02-2003, 01:14 PM
#465
Tech Initiate
Not sure about the blue, but the best tape I have used is the Wolfe Motorsport tape.