Solution for the stock class problems
02-08-2010, 07:37 PM
#363
I asked this same question in another thread. The manufacturing of brushless is of course different. And the cost of making higher wind motors is actually more than the low turn motors. So we are actually getting a price break on spec motors. Also ROAR does have a price limit on brushless motors:
8.8.2.2 The maximum retail price of a “05” brushless motor shall be $149.00.
8.8.2.2 The maximum retail price of a “05” brushless motor shall be $149.00.
Francis, this is why I love nitro racing lol. Buy a good engine, break it in.. and put fuel in it.. There really isn't an engine of the week...
02-08-2010, 07:53 PM
#365
You spend enough money on r/c.lol You might as well get the Tekin Pro so you can run SS or MOD .... My only gripe is the notion of adding another slow class which dilutes racing even more.... I can't say it enough but onroad should settle on a motor wind for stock and cap the Tech for that class so the speed can settle for 1 year... People who eventually want to go faster can move up to with all the gizmos they want SS and MOD......
RX7.... I know what your talking about with nitro... Marco barrowed my 2 year old engine and placed 3rd at the Novarossi challenge... All heats up to F was filled up...
02-08-2010, 08:07 PM
#366
My thoughts...
I have been racing for almost 20 years now and I started back when it was all about springs, brushes and the best batteries money could buy... I won many races because I had help from the best at the time as well as really paid attention to detals...
Now racing today I can purchase the same equipment as the team guys and know that the only difference really is my ability at setup and driving!
New people are going to buy the equipment and class and speed that apeals to them. It is like buying a new car, they are going to purchase what makes them feel good.
This is not an equpment issue or fixing a class, in all honesty it is about the attitude many of us carry at the track. Ask yourself have you really taken the time to help the new poeple run fast or even faster then yourself. This is what make people want to race is when they go to a track and enjoy the entire experiece including having the fast guys spend quality time helping them with their setup, explain the details to them and talk with them about driving better... This is the elements that are missing at many tracks these days... Many of us have our head so for up our own rear ends that we pay no attention to the new guys stuggling to figure it out. They just spent 600+ bucks to go racing and are lost in the sea of adjustments and rpm ranges...
I am not saying there are not guys out there helping, but I will say there is not near enough...
Example:
I good friend of mine was racing oval and was having a hard time keeping up and felt that he needed to purchase a new car/motor & speedo to be competitive. After spending an hour with one of the local fast guys... who actually took his car home with him and went through the car and rebuilt it like it should be set up. My friend went from struggling to now running second or third every weekend and now he can focus on driving. He is turning 3-4 laps more than he ever had and it all boiled down to equipment setup, tuning and gearing. His car caries corner speed now like never before and he now understands what to change when needed.
Bottom line... Fast guys, get off our rear end, stop dominating 3 classes and sponsor a local new guy... That will get more people enjoying our hobby!!! It all starts at the local level!!! You can make a difference, rather than spend 3 hours a night talking about how great this is or how much that sucks on this website, take a guys car home and make it right! He will never forget it and it will help everyone!
90% of the time I can win a class with almost any car in the field if I have the time to set it up correclty and dial it in (local club level) why not help others do the same! Don't wait for them to ask most of the time they will not, go up and offer help!
Stepping off soap box now, thanks for your time!
Let the bashing begin, but that is my -98 cents worth!
Now racing today I can purchase the same equipment as the team guys and know that the only difference really is my ability at setup and driving!
New people are going to buy the equipment and class and speed that apeals to them. It is like buying a new car, they are going to purchase what makes them feel good.
This is not an equpment issue or fixing a class, in all honesty it is about the attitude many of us carry at the track. Ask yourself have you really taken the time to help the new poeple run fast or even faster then yourself. This is what make people want to race is when they go to a track and enjoy the entire experiece including having the fast guys spend quality time helping them with their setup, explain the details to them and talk with them about driving better... This is the elements that are missing at many tracks these days... Many of us have our head so for up our own rear ends that we pay no attention to the new guys stuggling to figure it out. They just spent 600+ bucks to go racing and are lost in the sea of adjustments and rpm ranges...
I am not saying there are not guys out there helping, but I will say there is not near enough...
Example:
I good friend of mine was racing oval and was having a hard time keeping up and felt that he needed to purchase a new car/motor & speedo to be competitive. After spending an hour with one of the local fast guys... who actually took his car home with him and went through the car and rebuilt it like it should be set up. My friend went from struggling to now running second or third every weekend and now he can focus on driving. He is turning 3-4 laps more than he ever had and it all boiled down to equipment setup, tuning and gearing. His car caries corner speed now like never before and he now understands what to change when needed.
Bottom line... Fast guys, get off our rear end, stop dominating 3 classes and sponsor a local new guy... That will get more people enjoying our hobby!!! It all starts at the local level!!! You can make a difference, rather than spend 3 hours a night talking about how great this is or how much that sucks on this website, take a guys car home and make it right! He will never forget it and it will help everyone!
90% of the time I can win a class with almost any car in the field if I have the time to set it up correclty and dial it in (local club level) why not help others do the same! Don't wait for them to ask most of the time they will not, go up and offer help!
Stepping off soap box now, thanks for your time!
Let the bashing begin, but that is my -98 cents worth!
02-08-2010, 08:23 PM
#367
You spend enough money on r/c.lol You might as well get the Tekin Pro so you can run SS or MOD .... My only gripe is the notion of adding another slow class which dilutes racing even more.... I can't say it enough but onroad should settle on a motor wind for stock and cap the Tech for that class so the speed can settle for 1 year... People who eventually want to go faster can move up to with all the gizmos they want SS and MOD......
RX7.... I know what your talking about with nitro... Marco barrowed my 2 year old engine and placed 3rd at the Novarossi challenge... All heats up to F was filled up...
RX7.... I know what your talking about with nitro... Marco barrowed my 2 year old engine and placed 3rd at the Novarossi challenge... All heats up to F was filled up...
Bottom line... Fast guys, get off our rear end, stop dominating 3 classes and sponsor a local new guy... That will get more people enjoying our hobby!!! It all starts at the local level!!! You can make a difference, rather than spend 3 hours a night talking about how great this is or how much that sucks on this website, take a guys car home and make it right! He will never forget it and it will help everyone!
02-08-2010, 08:27 PM
#368
Again, I don't mean to lump everyone into a single category, but I race alot in the midwest and the last 2 new track I have raced at I have found not many people willing to put themselfs out there for help and even difficult to seak it out... I am saying many times people need to be more proactive in helping the new guys.
02-08-2010, 09:22 PM
#370
no motor war in mod. A fresh 5 year old 6 turn motor is still fast today.
02-08-2010, 09:25 PM
#371
Chuck, I understand why you question my argument. The people I describe are parking lot bashers, or one step up from that. And because you're concentrated on racing, you don't see them.
But my argument comes from personal experience. There once was an on road track here on Long Island called South Shore Hobbies. We raced there on Friday nights and Sundays. Saturdays was a practice day. There was a group of people (I won't call them racers here) that specifically went on Saturdays to avoid the real racers. They just wanted to run with themselves and have a good time. Yes they wanted to get better compared to their friends, but they didn't want to get into serious motor tuning, big dollar batteries and millimeter difference tire truing. They so wanted to stay away from racers that an internet rumor started about a special Saturday race, that ended up being bogus. They heard there was a race so they didn't go that Saturday.
That track was forced to close (business reasons). A few months later a new carpet track opened up, 360 RC Speedway. 360 was started by 2 racers, one of which is a ROAR 1/12 stock national champion. The track was great, with several big screen TV's to follow the action and a great racer focused hobby shop. The group of Saturday racers from the other track decidied to try their luck at the new track. Problem is the track was so racer oriented Saturdays were crowded with racers practicing. They tried to have a good time but when they were on the track the racers kept telling them to move out of the way, and tried telling them about "track equiette." Well, as you can imagine, this wasn't fun for them, so they went home and sold all of their RC rar racing stuff. They were out of the car racing hobby for good. When I asked them why, the answer was "we didn't like the attitude there." Now to defend the racers of 360, they really didn't do anything wrong, but they were at that level of competition where everything was serious. And that's what turned the "bashers" off. Unfortuantely 360 is also closed.
This is only one example. I have seen this happen over and over again. No one sees or hears from these people becuase they're out of the hobby. Why go on RC Tech if you don't race any more?
This is the problem. This is why we're losing racers, and not getting any new ones. If we can fix this, we can save RC racing.
But my argument comes from personal experience. There once was an on road track here on Long Island called South Shore Hobbies. We raced there on Friday nights and Sundays. Saturdays was a practice day. There was a group of people (I won't call them racers here) that specifically went on Saturdays to avoid the real racers. They just wanted to run with themselves and have a good time. Yes they wanted to get better compared to their friends, but they didn't want to get into serious motor tuning, big dollar batteries and millimeter difference tire truing. They so wanted to stay away from racers that an internet rumor started about a special Saturday race, that ended up being bogus. They heard there was a race so they didn't go that Saturday.
That track was forced to close (business reasons). A few months later a new carpet track opened up, 360 RC Speedway. 360 was started by 2 racers, one of which is a ROAR 1/12 stock national champion. The track was great, with several big screen TV's to follow the action and a great racer focused hobby shop. The group of Saturday racers from the other track decidied to try their luck at the new track. Problem is the track was so racer oriented Saturdays were crowded with racers practicing. They tried to have a good time but when they were on the track the racers kept telling them to move out of the way, and tried telling them about "track equiette." Well, as you can imagine, this wasn't fun for them, so they went home and sold all of their RC rar racing stuff. They were out of the car racing hobby for good. When I asked them why, the answer was "we didn't like the attitude there." Now to defend the racers of 360, they really didn't do anything wrong, but they were at that level of competition where everything was serious. And that's what turned the "bashers" off. Unfortuantely 360 is also closed.
This is only one example. I have seen this happen over and over again. No one sees or hears from these people becuase they're out of the hobby. Why go on RC Tech if you don't race any more?
This is the problem. This is why we're losing racers, and not getting any new ones. If we can fix this, we can save RC racing.
It is a tough call. I'd hate to be a dedicated racer and have my car get wadded by someone who was having too much fun to bother learning a little track ettiquite. I think anyone going to a track should expect a certain amont of structure whether it be RC, or a car/ motorcycle track day. This isn't done to stifle anyone's enjoyment. It is done to keep things safe and reduce the chance of anyone getting their equipment broken. I don't see this as unreasonable. At my track I've been "corrected" numerous times but it has always been constructive and never rude or insulting. I appreciate it and it made me better driver, not just a better racer. None of us should ever tolerate someone going off on another driver no matter who is right or wrong. When that happens it is nearly impossible to ever really make things right again.
It is a complicated issue and I appreciate you not taking my response personally. That seems to be the exception to the rule these days.
Later,
Chuck
02-09-2010, 01:14 AM
#373
Again, I don't mean to lump everyone into a single category, but I race alot in the midwest and the last 2 new track I have raced at I have found not many people willing to put themselfs out there for help and even difficult to seak it out... I am saying many times people need to be more proactive in helping the new guys.
Wednesday I helped one young guy id never known before rewire his esc and help clean the track, then friday went to pay my membership for another club and help set up the track whilst waiting to do that...
I didn't wheel a single lap at either club!
People remember you when you help them out, or help a club out, which in turn can only benefit both sides
Unless you have very good reason to, the race and go home mentality shouldnt exist in anyone.
02-09-2010, 01:30 AM
#374
Again, I don't mean to lump everyone into a single category, but I race alot in the midwest and the last 2 new track I have raced at I have found not many people willing to put themselfs out there for help and even difficult to seak it out... I am saying many times people need to be more proactive in helping the new guys.
02-09-2010, 02:56 AM
#375
If clubs are that bothered about the newcomer, make a silver can class for them. Cheap and slower in comparison to brushless.
The latest brushless ESC wont make a single bit of difference, quite a few of them support brushed motors which is good for when the time is right for a guy to switch over to brushless, and the seasoned racer probably wont feel like joining a slow motor class.
The latest brushless ESC wont make a single bit of difference, quite a few of them support brushed motors which is good for when the time is right for a guy to switch over to brushless, and the seasoned racer probably wont feel like joining a slow motor class.