4LikesNEW HOBBYWING STOCK SUPERCHARGED SOFTWARE
03-18-2011 | 04:21 PM
#4111
Tech Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 266
From: Dorset UK
Sure a max RPM log is good but to use it as a method to stop motors from popping would be like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted. If you want to stop them from blowing the best way in my opinion is to temp check after a couple of minutes running.
Like I say that's just how I do it though
I do think we are in danger of becoming lazy as in expecting too much from the speed controllers.
Like I say that's just how I do it though
I do think we are in danger of becoming lazy as in expecting too much from the speed controllers.
03-18-2011 | 06:01 PM
#4112
Tech Fanatic
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 893
Guys The meaning of Max RPM, in the Log is to be at Running your cars when Under Load / on track.
03-18-2011 | 06:30 PM
#4115
Tech Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 721
Each motor wind has a 'limit' to how far it will rev, prior to dynamic timing this was easy to calculate as KV x Input voltage, ie 3000kv x 8v = 24,000RPM. The main differentiation between motors of differing brands was the KV which invariably took into account the amount of 'in built' timing on each brands particular 'take' on the motor.
With advanced timing it is a little more complex, however each wind will have its' own 'ceiling' RPM which it could theoretically reach if left winding up for long enough. dynamic timing has changed this by allowing us to add more current/timing (argue amongst yourselves that point) thus in effect raising the KV figure to a higher amount.
For example using my own data logger my max out RPM on the straight, with a HW 13.5T BLM, was 48,000 RPM, which using the above simplified example equates to roughly 6000kv that was with the full added 'timing etc etc' utilised. By changing the gearing I could either have it 'topping out' early or gear to 'top out' later, but one thing remained constant and that was the maximum RPM at approx 48k.
The settings that we change affect the rate at which the timing is added, as well as the maximum that we wish to use thus giving more, or less, acceleration during timing addition trading heat for acc or vice versa.
What i believe is being missed here is that the motor does not cease to increase speed once the additional timing has all been added but will continue to accelerate upto it's structural maximum RPM ie 48,000RPM.
Example: Boost Start 5000RPM, Slope 200/Unit boost 64 Units.
If you have started the 'boost' (hate that word) at say 5000RPM then you will have a relatively shallow but linear upward curve on the RPM, upon hitting the timing start then the rate of acceleration will change accodring to the ACC setting, giving a strong upward slope in RPM/Time, as the boost phase ends at approx 17,800 RPM, then the motor will revert to a linear path upto it's final limit of RPM's ie 48000.
If you were to draw this as a graph it would form an elongated laid down 'S' shape, it would seem that there is a consensus here that the RPM increase ceases with the end of the dynamic timing phase and using that theiory the motor would 'top out' at (in this example) 17,800RPM. This is clearly NOT the case as tested by us with data logging hardware.
Discuss........
PS
I hate to agree with IRGO but the data logging information is enormously useful in fine tuning gearing to allow you to tune the gearing / ACC to allow you to maximise the rotational potential of a given motor on the straight, however it is of little benefit in the twisty bits, unless you have, as we do multiple sensors such as Steering input, Throttle input, RPM, Motor Temp, ESC Temp, Current, and both lateral and longitudinal 'G' sensors. The only reading we are unable to take is the actual timing data, this would be useful to have to add to the data already being collected.
HOWEVER.....
Just knowing the Max RPM does not help, as this will not tell you how long the RPM was maxed out, thus not allowing for adjustment to track length conditions etc.
To gain accurate readings we found that the data needed to be sampled at 20 samples per second, based on the 8 sensors, that requires 160 samples PER SECOND, even with the large extended memory of our V4 logger this limits the data to about 20 minutes. Now this sounds a lot but what I am getting at is that it is NOT just a case of 'slapping' on some software for logging, but also allowing for memory to be available for the information. So I ask an open question of :-
'How much are customers willing to pay for this feature to be added to future models - allowing that there will be a considerable increase in production costs; because, as previously mentioned by myself, the HW range is the best value on the market BAR NONE giving the most BANG FOR YOUR BUCK of any manufacturer in the RC world. Or are we in danger of demanding so many applications to be added that the unit becomes as complex as, say, a GM with a price tag to match?'
Discuss.....
On a lighter note finally got my Eyefinity 3 way monitor setup running woohoo SUPER WIDE games lol !!!
With advanced timing it is a little more complex, however each wind will have its' own 'ceiling' RPM which it could theoretically reach if left winding up for long enough. dynamic timing has changed this by allowing us to add more current/timing (argue amongst yourselves that point) thus in effect raising the KV figure to a higher amount.
For example using my own data logger my max out RPM on the straight, with a HW 13.5T BLM, was 48,000 RPM, which using the above simplified example equates to roughly 6000kv that was with the full added 'timing etc etc' utilised. By changing the gearing I could either have it 'topping out' early or gear to 'top out' later, but one thing remained constant and that was the maximum RPM at approx 48k.
The settings that we change affect the rate at which the timing is added, as well as the maximum that we wish to use thus giving more, or less, acceleration during timing addition trading heat for acc or vice versa.
What i believe is being missed here is that the motor does not cease to increase speed once the additional timing has all been added but will continue to accelerate upto it's structural maximum RPM ie 48,000RPM.
Example: Boost Start 5000RPM, Slope 200/Unit boost 64 Units.
If you have started the 'boost' (hate that word) at say 5000RPM then you will have a relatively shallow but linear upward curve on the RPM, upon hitting the timing start then the rate of acceleration will change accodring to the ACC setting, giving a strong upward slope in RPM/Time, as the boost phase ends at approx 17,800 RPM, then the motor will revert to a linear path upto it's final limit of RPM's ie 48000.
If you were to draw this as a graph it would form an elongated laid down 'S' shape, it would seem that there is a consensus here that the RPM increase ceases with the end of the dynamic timing phase and using that theiory the motor would 'top out' at (in this example) 17,800RPM. This is clearly NOT the case as tested by us with data logging hardware.
Discuss........
PS
I hate to agree with IRGO but the data logging information is enormously useful in fine tuning gearing to allow you to tune the gearing / ACC to allow you to maximise the rotational potential of a given motor on the straight, however it is of little benefit in the twisty bits, unless you have, as we do multiple sensors such as Steering input, Throttle input, RPM, Motor Temp, ESC Temp, Current, and both lateral and longitudinal 'G' sensors. The only reading we are unable to take is the actual timing data, this would be useful to have to add to the data already being collected.
HOWEVER.....
Just knowing the Max RPM does not help, as this will not tell you how long the RPM was maxed out, thus not allowing for adjustment to track length conditions etc.
To gain accurate readings we found that the data needed to be sampled at 20 samples per second, based on the 8 sensors, that requires 160 samples PER SECOND, even with the large extended memory of our V4 logger this limits the data to about 20 minutes. Now this sounds a lot but what I am getting at is that it is NOT just a case of 'slapping' on some software for logging, but also allowing for memory to be available for the information. So I ask an open question of :-
'How much are customers willing to pay for this feature to be added to future models - allowing that there will be a considerable increase in production costs; because, as previously mentioned by myself, the HW range is the best value on the market BAR NONE giving the most BANG FOR YOUR BUCK of any manufacturer in the RC world. Or are we in danger of demanding so many applications to be added that the unit becomes as complex as, say, a GM with a price tag to match?'
Discuss.....
On a lighter note finally got my Eyefinity 3 way monitor setup running woohoo SUPER WIDE games lol !!!
03-19-2011 | 01:52 AM
#4116
New HW Xerun motors really are good, finally got to run mine (10.5T) last night after our last meet rained out...
I had doubts about how well it would rev given the low kv rating, and I was only going to run it with zero timing, but even though I'd say it does rev a little short of my old SP, it seemed a sweet overall performer last night.
I had doubts about how well it would rev given the low kv rating, and I was only going to run it with zero timing, but even though I'd say it does rev a little short of my old SP, it seemed a sweet overall performer last night.
03-19-2011 | 02:56 AM
#4117
Tech Adept
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 103
From: canada
Tried Other settings but still a bad cog at low rpm
Going to put the tekin back in and send this one in
03-19-2011 | 06:41 AM
#4121
