4LikesNEW HOBBYWING STOCK SUPERCHARGED SOFTWARE
03-10-2011 | 04:00 PM
#3782
Tech Elite
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,198
From: The Netherlands
03-10-2011 | 04:16 PM
#3783
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 95
a position on a scale of intensity or amount or quality; "a moderate grade of intelligence"; "a high level of care is required"; "it is all a matter of degree"
a specific identifiable position in a continuum or series or especially in a process; "a remarkable degree of frankness"; "at what stage are the social sciences?"
academic degree: an award conferred by a college or university signifying that the recipient has satisfactorily completed a course of study; "he earned his degree at Princeton summa cum laude"
a measure for arcs and angles; "there are 360 degrees in a circle"
the highest power of a term or variable
a unit of temperature on a specified scale; "the game was played in spite of the 40-degree temperature"
the seriousness of something (e.g., a burn or crime); "murder in the second degree"; "a second degree burn"
If you were scientific you would use radians not degrees to measure the boost of an electric combo.
Don't for a moment think that because people speak here in basic terms that they don't possess PhD's in Mathematics, Physics, Electrical Engineering and so on.
Intelligent people are those that can be understood by people of all levels rather than those that speak in jargon to big note themselves.
Cheers.
Last edited by tdunster; 03-10-2011 at 04:33 PM.
03-10-2011 | 05:04 PM
#3784
There is a very clear practical technological reason for having 64 steps. One of the HobbyWing guys alluded to it a few days ago.
The HobbyWing speedo has onboard memory. The advanced timing programs are becoming more complicated than the speed controls were ever designed for. This means that every Bit of information counts.
Now, memory is just a string of 0's and 1's, and therefore you must make numbers out of these 0's and 1's. To have an on/off switch there are two possible states so you can use a single Bit to describe it. to make a number that is up to 2^n you need n Bits. This means that you need 1 Bit to have a choice of 2 options, 2 Bits to have a choice of 4 options, 3 Bits to have a choice of 8 options...6 Bits to have up to 64 options.
This 6 bit address limit is the reason that you have 64 steps/options for timing. To change it to % you need at least 100 options requiring an extra Bit. This is the reason for having 64 steps. As this is still beta software I can completely understand why they use this number, and maybe for the release software they could use % or something similar with a courser step size. While it is beta is is good to have the software as tunable as possible.
What I do agree with is that it would be nice to have a conversion to actual degrees of timing, if only to compare different software versions.
Hope this clears things up a little
Ben
The HobbyWing speedo has onboard memory. The advanced timing programs are becoming more complicated than the speed controls were ever designed for. This means that every Bit of information counts.
Now, memory is just a string of 0's and 1's, and therefore you must make numbers out of these 0's and 1's. To have an on/off switch there are two possible states so you can use a single Bit to describe it. to make a number that is up to 2^n you need n Bits. This means that you need 1 Bit to have a choice of 2 options, 2 Bits to have a choice of 4 options, 3 Bits to have a choice of 8 options...6 Bits to have up to 64 options.
This 6 bit address limit is the reason that you have 64 steps/options for timing. To change it to % you need at least 100 options requiring an extra Bit. This is the reason for having 64 steps. As this is still beta software I can completely understand why they use this number, and maybe for the release software they could use % or something similar with a courser step size. While it is beta is is good to have the software as tunable as possible.
What I do agree with is that it would be nice to have a conversion to actual degrees of timing, if only to compare different software versions.
Hope this clears things up a little
Ben
Out of interest, if you were to keep the 64steps, would it affect the amount of memory used, if you just changed the labelling to a more complex method (i.e. %)? Or is the limit on bit's the actual number of steps used?
Given the apparent confusion (not sure why... it's 64steps, as has been said by a number of HW representatives), as an idea for the marking system, how about 2% steps... 0-64 = 0-128%... (50 steps being 100%).
1.5% steps doesn't work as you end up with 0-64 = 0-96%... and you just know people would moan, "where's my last 4%!"
03-10-2011 | 05:23 PM
#3785
Tech Addict
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 706
http://www.rctech.net/forum/8770742-post3671.html
hey matt... i believe that HW change from degrees to step is to get as lower temperature as it could... as i mentioned at earlier post, 119 could reach at least 5'c lower than 1224 with the same speed... for me who running 10.5t at 7.4v, i'll not turning to 1224 once i run 119... cant post 211 review as i dont have chance to test it yet... but 211 got good revise from our group interm of low, mid n top speed compare to 1224 and 119...
hey matt... i believe that HW change from degrees to step is to get as lower temperature as it could... as i mentioned at earlier post, 119 could reach at least 5'c lower than 1224 with the same speed... for me who running 10.5t at 7.4v, i'll not turning to 1224 once i run 119... cant post 211 review as i dont have chance to test it yet... but 211 got good revise from our group interm of low, mid n top speed compare to 1224 and 119...
Changing from steps to degrees doest make the motor cooler, it was done to allow more finer adjustments.
Shawn.
03-10-2011 | 05:30 PM
#3786
Tech Addict
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 706
There is a very clear practical technological reason for having 64 steps. One of the HobbyWing guys alluded to it a few days ago.
The HobbyWing speedo has onboard memory. The advanced timing programs are becoming more complicated than the speed controls were ever designed for. This means that every Bit of information counts.
Now, memory is just a string of 0's and 1's, and therefore you must make numbers out of these 0's and 1's. To have an on/off switch there are two possible states so you can use a single Bit to describe it. to make a number that is up to 2^n you need n Bits. This means that you need 1 Bit to have a choice of 2 options, 2 Bits to have a choice of 4 options, 3 Bits to have a choice of 8 options...6 Bits to have up to 64 options.
This 6 bit address limit is the reason that you have 64 steps/options for timing. To change it to % you need at least 100 options requiring an extra Bit. This is the reason for having 64 steps. As this is still beta software I can completely understand why they use this number, and maybe for the release software they could use % or something similar with a courser step size. While it is beta is is good to have the software as tunable as possible.
What I do agree with is that it would be nice to have a conversion to actual degrees of timing, if only to compare different software versions.
Hope this clears things up a little
Ben
The HobbyWing speedo has onboard memory. The advanced timing programs are becoming more complicated than the speed controls were ever designed for. This means that every Bit of information counts.
Now, memory is just a string of 0's and 1's, and therefore you must make numbers out of these 0's and 1's. To have an on/off switch there are two possible states so you can use a single Bit to describe it. to make a number that is up to 2^n you need n Bits. This means that you need 1 Bit to have a choice of 2 options, 2 Bits to have a choice of 4 options, 3 Bits to have a choice of 8 options...6 Bits to have up to 64 options.
This 6 bit address limit is the reason that you have 64 steps/options for timing. To change it to % you need at least 100 options requiring an extra Bit. This is the reason for having 64 steps. As this is still beta software I can completely understand why they use this number, and maybe for the release software they could use % or something similar with a courser step size. While it is beta is is good to have the software as tunable as possible.
What I do agree with is that it would be nice to have a conversion to actual degrees of timing, if only to compare different software versions.
Hope this clears things up a little
Ben
If I wrote my microcontroller in this fashion I would have been fired. The bit addressing you are describing is used in hardware design to address external chips, not the way you would use the memory inside the microcontroller. Space is limited in a microcontroller, but by using 1 byte of ram you could have upto 255 steps if you wish.
Most likely 64 is just easier for the math calculations, where 100 percent is a pain in the butt when the microcontroller doesnt have an FPU. (Multiplication and division are clock intensive operations. )
In the worse case scenerio, HW has used look up tables for each of the step values, that would be a major memory hog.
Cheers,
Shawn.
Shawn.
03-10-2011 | 06:24 PM
#3787
Tech Apprentice
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 98
Well then it would be just as smart to make the boost start rpm in percent wouldn't it?
Instead of 1000-15000rpm you could just go 0-100% because no one could ever be interested in knowing what speed the timing is started to beeing added or?
Sorry but i don't agree here, degrees are degrees and they are universal.
All the previuos softwares have been in degrees and i for one really like the idea that 5 degrees on the endbell equals 5degrees in the software!
It's a completely different ballgame in the case of for example the Punch setting or the brake. You cannot meashure it in any good way so here % or steps or whatever is good.
And unfortunately it isn't as easy as putting more timing in always makes more power.
It's a case of putting exactly the right amount of timing in at the right point as more timing at low rpm can make less torque hence less power.
That beeing said. The hardware and software are truly awesome for the price and at this point i would not considering anything else!
Thank you Hobbywing but please bring back the degrees in the upcoming softwares!!!
At the very least provide info on how many actual degrees of timing the new 211-213 softwares have so i can calculate how many degrees 1 step represents!
/Mattias
Instead of 1000-15000rpm you could just go 0-100% because no one could ever be interested in knowing what speed the timing is started to beeing added or?
Sorry but i don't agree here, degrees are degrees and they are universal.
All the previuos softwares have been in degrees and i for one really like the idea that 5 degrees on the endbell equals 5degrees in the software!
It's a completely different ballgame in the case of for example the Punch setting or the brake. You cannot meashure it in any good way so here % or steps or whatever is good.
And unfortunately it isn't as easy as putting more timing in always makes more power.
It's a case of putting exactly the right amount of timing in at the right point as more timing at low rpm can make less torque hence less power.
That beeing said. The hardware and software are truly awesome for the price and at this point i would not considering anything else!
Thank you Hobbywing but please bring back the degrees in the upcoming softwares!!!
At the very least provide info on how many actual degrees of timing the new 211-213 softwares have so i can calculate how many degrees 1 step represents!
/Mattias
Another fact is from our test, we still can find the difference performance when 1 of 64 steps increase or decrease in the best setting range. That's important for serious drivers to race.
Fortunately , michael will soon release the comparison chart on the boost and turbo settings of new software and old one(518stock). Please wait for a moment and check. Forget the universal degree and remember it is a number.
03-10-2011 | 06:39 PM
#3788
Tech Apprentice
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 98
If I wrote my microcontroller in this fashion I would have been fired. The bit addressing you are describing is used in hardware design to address external chips, not the way you would use the memory inside the microcontroller. Space is limited in a microcontroller, but by using 1 byte of ram you could have upto 255 steps if you wish.
Most likely 64 is just easier for the math calculations, where 100 percent is a pain in the butt when the microcontroller doesnt have an FPU. (Multiplication and division are clock intensive operations. )
In the worse case scenerio, HW has used look up tables for each of the step values, that would be a major memory hog.
Cheers,
Shawn.
Most likely 64 is just easier for the math calculations, where 100 percent is a pain in the butt when the microcontroller doesnt have an FPU. (Multiplication and division are clock intensive operations. )
In the worse case scenerio, HW has used look up tables for each of the step values, that would be a major memory hog.
Cheers,
Shawn.
03-10-2011 | 06:40 PM
#3790
Tech Fanatic
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 893
Angle of Timing.
i like every opinion here about timing degree..
but every time we returned to the Brushed motor i just can't explain student's similarities with Brushless Motor,
Because Classic Brushed Motor Doesn't have percentage for it's
timing.
So timing angle degrees, is much more easier to learn for new driver's in the simplest way.
Another way ,is when Showing Brushless endbell, and changing the angle of timing in degree (physical Timing) is just incomparable with percentage or aliases. (this way required another explanation).
so i don't want to make confuse, timing angle degrees is timing angle degree.
The only make's many of you confuse is 64 number of timing angle degrees, that we are talking about.
if a soft timing change is designed to get Cooler by fining More adjustable,
decimal is a better answer. ex: 0.5 --> 1.5Degrees, and so on.
please correct me if I'm wrong.
but every time we returned to the Brushed motor i just can't explain student's similarities with Brushless Motor,
Because Classic Brushed Motor Doesn't have percentage for it's
timing.
So timing angle degrees, is much more easier to learn for new driver's in the simplest way.
Another way ,is when Showing Brushless endbell, and changing the angle of timing in degree (physical Timing) is just incomparable with percentage or aliases. (this way required another explanation).
so i don't want to make confuse, timing angle degrees is timing angle degree.
The only make's many of you confuse is 64 number of timing angle degrees, that we are talking about.
if a soft timing change is designed to get Cooler by fining More adjustable,
decimal is a better answer. ex: 0.5 --> 1.5Degrees, and so on.
please correct me if I'm wrong.
03-10-2011 | 06:49 PM
#3791
Tech Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 721
but i like this thread...
03-10-2011 | 08:15 PM
#3794
Tech Fanatic
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 893
Timing angle degree adjustment related to LCD Programmer
Angelo, talk about the timing angle adjustment degree,
there is other makes us to conclude that adjusting using LCD is not as easy as using PC Inteface.
as we see the PC Interface have abilities to adjust (-) Decrease (+) increase
the timing angle Boost and Turbo.
but on LCD (until the latest Firmware LCD) all we can do is only (+) increase it's timing, and that cause us to roll forward until the timing get's back to 0.
Maybe Michael can make the LCD Programming to allow to decrease and increase the timing ?
there is other makes us to conclude that adjusting using LCD is not as easy as using PC Inteface.
as we see the PC Interface have abilities to adjust (-) Decrease (+) increase
the timing angle Boost and Turbo.
but on LCD (until the latest Firmware LCD) all we can do is only (+) increase it's timing, and that cause us to roll forward until the timing get's back to 0.
Maybe Michael can make the LCD Programming to allow to decrease and increase the timing ?
03-10-2011 | 08:21 PM
#3795
Tech Addict
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 706
Yeah, so you can decide if you want to fry your motor at 100deg C or 100.5deg C. Good try, but I am not biting on that one.
If you are riding the temperature edge that close, then just a bump in room temperature would also cause the motor to overheat. I do like the ability to fine tune it to the smallest amount, but under most circumstancies finding the absolute maximum setup becomes dyno-racing, and does not always translate to on track performance.
Shawn
If you are riding the temperature edge that close, then just a bump in room temperature would also cause the motor to overheat. I do like the ability to fine tune it to the smallest amount, but under most circumstancies finding the absolute maximum setup becomes dyno-racing, and does not always translate to on track performance.
Shawn