Having read the recent posts on the other thread it seems that nobody is quite sure exactly what a 19T motor is.

Is it:

a) A hand wound 19T arm with bearings and open timing.
b) A machine wound 19T arm fixed to 24 degrees using bushings.

It would seem to me that option b would offer a slightly faster class than the current stock motor but would otherwise be exactly the same. There won't be any money saving because as soon as this becomes settled as a class the manufacture costs would be the same as stock!

If option a is your flavour them it seems that this would just be reinstating (a slightly faster) group 20, after all what's one turn on the motor? Even with several manufacturers I can't see the cost being any less for one of these motors than a Modified motor (because that's essentially what it is). If the class sticks around long enough then you will have the situation that occured with G20 - the motors will be developed to the point where they are close to a modified motor. This would of course hurt the numbers in Modified whilst not effecting stock as much.

Either way I can't see a 19T motor class being helpful to the sport in this country in the long term.

Perhaps someone else might like to start a poll called 'Which 19T did you vote for?'

Maybe I'm being a bit cynical but that's how I see it. Strength in numbers, lets not split up our classes.

I don't 19t as a cost saver, as mention previosuly we don'd rc cars to save money...

a 19t class is a technical step up from the 27t stock class, nothing more nothing less.

i agree with bk i doubt its a $$ saving thing (i must confess that i dont see mod being all that more costly to run than stock - maybe im wrong) apart from 540 there is no real cheap form of r/c

going back to the victorian debate i think mod numbers are "down" (if thats at all correct) or people dont move from stock due in large part to to outright speeds of full on mod racing not the cost

that said i doubt that 19t would ultimatley be that much slower - when you look at how well G20 runs in tc's

in any event if a class was to get voted on it would have to be the roar specs - they are (or soon will be) handwound full on mods the fixed timing, machine wound 19t's are "history"

radio - progress has to made very carefully, and infact any changes may be too soon / quick

i think the upcomming tc nats will be a watershed for stock and mod, perhaps we will get the best indercation as to the viability of another class, if there are 10 stock heats (which i would suggest is not unimaginable) maybe another class could be carried at state and national level (which would flow on to clubs)

the off road situation is much different

Could you possible run stock with spec brushes? If you toned down stock so it was less powerful then the gap would be bigger to 19T. It would also make it easier(finacially) on the newbies moving from 540 to stock. Just an idea....

Off Road has more than enough classes with out adding more.
Maybe we should put it on a diet ?

Maybe a 5 degree stock motor would make 19t seem quicker.

Then after running the 23t at Eastern Creek, I was amazed how much quicker these motors (through shear torque) are over the 27t's that I have run. Almost cracked 23 laps (bloody driver mashed a couple of corners)
I reckon we will have to be on a 23 lap pace in stock for the Nats

the point a lot of you are missing with regards to the reasons for trying to save costs, the cost savings dont just come from the actual purchase costs of the motor and batteries, which would most likely be similar in stock or 19T, but the wear on the car, tyres and potential damage are the big factors between 19T and mod. the poll shows at the moment that a majority of people who really care about whats happening think there needs to be an intermediate class between stock and mod and the 19T i assumed most people on here were talking about as indicated by radio active is the 19T fixed 24 deg bushed spec motor, and as radio says, what you will end up with is a faster stock class, which is what i think is needed, we certainly dont want a 19T open style like G20 in the past, what i also suggest is at the big meetings, in both stock and 19t if it runs is have a maximum rollout to prevent those people who can afford to cook a few in a day from doing that, cya

And who will follow the rules of this roleout.. and or check that it is the same...

at big meetings, there is scrutineering, when u ran at the hoppers meeting, there was a rollout restriction on the 540 class i believe and that seemed to work

mabey it would work if you were using contoled tyres that didnt change diamater

yeah man, i was just thinking that, it would be a bit harder to police because of the foam diameter issue, rubbers would make the deal a bit easier, but if open tyres it would mean the scrutineers would need calipers or something, and make the deal a bit too complicated maybe, hmm, oh well, it was worth a thought anyway

I think it would be great to see a step between mod/stock in the futrue. Races seem to be gettin bigger and bigger in syd at least and another class could be interesting..

From my point of view: I regually make a's in stock these days.. but I doubt i would be even close to the A's in mod... an intermdiate step to learn how to use the newfound power/speed before mod would be welcomed.

Also: I would hate to see rubber only in 19t. Not all tracks work well with rubber just like not all tracks work with foam. Hate to see a good track not running big meets because controls tyres won't work there.. also makes a meet a real drag if the onlything you are allowed to use sux on that surface

i dont want to start the great debate, but i am curious to the nature of the surface where rubber really sux ("besides all of them" - to save your the trouble besercoe) to the point of precluding its use

Rubber is a little weird at Kambah with the VHT, Rubber def does not work at Helles either. Rubber also sux at Castle Hill..or is that just the concrete???? lol

Rubber is fantastic at, and faster than foam at Forestville, Rubber is ok but a tad slower at Eastern Creek.

i agree with helles... but the rest are hardly so bad that rubber could not be run... thats enough pig!