Looking at Roleof's first reply in that thread, what he said is nearly the same as what I was going to mention in my previous post in regards to why I think the Micro-B will succeed where the Mini-Z's have failed.

The current micro offerings are basically Mini-Z or GL Racing. In terms of design, Mini-z's straddle the line between toy grade and hobby grade RC - it's easy to see why they have never taken off after all these years, and IMO they're too expensive for being so basic in design. And the GL racing cars, while they are full fledged hobby grade cars, cost way too much for a micro, imo.

The micro-B seems to hit the right balance of being a proper hobby grade RC at an incredible price. That's the magic sauce, I think, that's leading to the huge amount of hype I'm seeing for these cars. And there is hype - last time I was at the track there were guys talking about buying them because they looked so fun. I've never heard anyone care about getting a Mini-Z other than people who were already into them.

I get it though, micros have their drawbacks and it's just not the same as racing a bigger car, but again, I don't have the illusion that micros will replace current 1/10 and 1/8 racing, just that they offer a potential to grow the racing hobby in a way that's not been seen before due to the very low barrier to entry they provide.

^2 more problems with mini-z etc. are the tiny hardware, which is a nightmare if you have poor eyesight or fine motor skills, and the twitchy handling/mosquito dynamics.

^I also agree about the cost, it's hard to justify that kind of expenditure on something so small. Might as well go with slot cars or Scalextric then.

I reckon something in the 1/xteens scale might be the ticket. Which means my Xray M18 might come back in fashion....

I don't personally own any 12th scale stuff, but I think that was the sweet spot between being small enough for tighter indoor spaces yet big enough for scaled realism. Just big enough to not be a "toy" etc. Have been to a 12th scale pan car race and those mofos zip around a track so quick and the twitchy handling. I don't know why you'd want to race something smaller.

I have a mini-b I bought when they first came out, and depending on where I run that car it drastically alters my perception of how easy and fun it is to drive. On a small track built around the size of the car, they're a blast. On any 1/10 track I've tried it on they become a nervous, twitchy, uncontrollable mess. So the key for minis/micros, IMO, is to build an appropriately sized track for them that keeps them from going so fast they become a twitchy and nervous pain in the rear end. to drive.

That makes since, the races I watched were being held on a 10th scale TC track.

Bingo. Spot on Nick. Therein lies the rub on keeping a track successful and operating. How to build a track that is acceptable to a variety of not only classes, but now a variety of scales as well.

Begs the question regarding tracks surviving. Build the track to the car? Or build the car to the track? Conundrum for any budding track builder.

After following this thread am beginning to think we as racers and RC'ers may have to accept what we have and deal with it. A smattering of regional tracks feeding an even smaller number of national level tracks. Local tracks more or less a non-entity with the exception of a few pockets of activity. Perhaps that's what RC is meant to be. Bash locally with intermittent travel to race?

-AC

Build the track to the racers.
We have a wiener!

When's the last time you drove a Mini-Z? The EVO's drive like a 1/12th scale and are far from twitchy and don't have mosquito dynamics. My stock brushed MB-010 is super to easy to drive as well. If you are having those issues, your dual rate is set to high.

I had a fair amount of Carrera track and a bunch of 1/32 slot cars from various brands and sold it all once I realized that RCP track takes up the same amount of space and is a lot easier/faster to set up and tear down. I also prefer picking my own line around a track. Driving an RC takes a lot more skill than pulling the trigger to make a Slot Car go around a mostly static race line. You mention eye sight being one of the reasons why you think Micros are bad, but then you bring up purchasing something that is smaller in scale, curious.

When it comes to cost, it's all relative. An X-Ray touring car is what $700, a Tekno is right around $600, and Losi 2wd buggies start at $400 and then you need to add your electronics and you still aren't ready for the track. A fully dialed in GL 1/27th is going to set you back w/ electronics right around $400, a fully hopped Kyosho Mini-Z is about the same. And then there is the cost of tires, batteries, etc.. when racing the larger scales which is a non existent issue in the Micro world. Tires are $5-10 for 4 and they last a while and batteries top out at around $20. You can get a AA/AAA charger that charges cells individually on Amazon for right around $25 last I checked.

Micro's, just like larger scale RC's need to be set up to get the most out of them. I don't think those of you stating that there is no tuning involved really know that much about micros. http://mini-z-guide.com/ There is also another way to look at this. Going racing can be an intimidating experience for some, so not having to work on the car may actually be something that is appealing to a newcomer.

I completely understand, micros are not for everyone, but they do have the lowest entry cost, they don't require a lot of room, and they are a lot of fun to drive.



Completely disagree. When I couldn't go racing with others the first thing I bought to run in my apartment was a Losi Mini B & T, they were way too big. 1/24 - 1/27 is the perfect scale for small spaces. 1/12th is way too big and again if it's twitchy turn down the dual rate. I used to race 1/12th scale. It's not the car, it's the driver and I suspect 1/12th isn't that popular because they require more skill and patience.

When it comes to Micros and track size, there are people running Micros on large tracks set up in gymnasiums. If the car is set up right, it's not difficult to drive. Talk to someone like EMU who has a lot of experience racing micros.

I haven't driven Mini Z, but I have driven other brand micros. There's a weird "dartiness" about rc cars the smaller the scale, it's not "smooth" like an 8th scale (I don't know how else to explain it).
I understand that Mini-Z may very well be a more refined platform though. I do give them props for their beautiful bodyshells though.

The eyesight thing is more about maintenance and repair, cos I'll inevitably crash that bish. Having seen a friend's Mini-z, the screws were absolutely tiny. I knew that was going to cause me problems if I went down that road...... I can see the car itself just fine on track. I ran off the assumption that slot cars were more plug and play, no maintenance. (unless you get serious)

As for tuning, micros tend to be "pan car" style in suspension, I personally have had a........ less than stellar experience with that type of car.


And cost, the less said the better. I've now realized that literally every activity has become a "hobby", and has the price tag to match......
Somehow, paying $400 for something that small causes my brain to short circuit for some inexplicable reason.

I definitely don't enjoy working on Micro's and Mini's. I just replaced some front end parts on my EVO and it took me several attempts to successfully get everything back in place. You think dealing with small screws sucks...try shimming a kingpin.

Regarding Slot Cars, you got a point there and if I had the space, I would probably would have kept what I had. I always had fun trying to beat lap times or comparing lap times between cars.

I loved 1/12th scale, so I get why someone who is accustomed to driving a different suspension set up may not enjoy driving something based on a 1/12th scale.

No doubt every hobby is expensive and I understand why people feel that they are not getting a lot for their money due to the size of the product. I went through this with Micro Crawlers. Once I added up what I intended to spend about a 1/3rd of the way into a couple of builds, I came to the conclusion that I was wasting my money and could have bought a nice 1/10th scale rig, hoping to pick one up within the next few weeks.

I think micros are a great way to bring people into the hobby and a great way to introduce them to RC racing. Mini-Z box stock is a pretty popular class and a person can get into racing that class for right around $200 and they can be competitive if they have the skill, and best of all no ESC, battery or tire wars One of the things we should do if we want to attract people is to figure out what they want, not what we want. I personally believe that people just want to have fun in a low key environment. I think a box stock class of any type can make this a possibility and a Mini 96 track can be set up in the middle of most malls. I believe WolfRam is located in a mall.

I wonder how much those Kiosk spots in the Malls rent for? A Mini-96 track is $450, a timing system is around $200, 10 rental cars at retail is $2000, and all you need for POS is a scanner attached to your device. For right around $3000 you have most of what you need to open a Micro track in the middle of the Mall. $10 for 10 minutes, plus whatever could be made if you had product to sell. Hmmm, I wonder if something like that could work?

F that noise, I don't like doing that on a 10th scale, nevermind micro!

I fell *hard* down the micro crawler path with FMS. They don't half make some good stuff! Spent far too much money on it, although I kinda dig the spare parts prices lol! Very cheap, especially when coming from 8th scale or race grade 10th scale.

I think instead of micro (1/20-something scale or smaller), we should look at mini, like 1/-teens scale. Stuff like the Losi mini, LC racing, HPI micro RS4 as the smallest end. Still extremely portable, affordable, decent speed without mosquito handling.

And then micro crawlers to unwind afterwards, with course built from random trash around the house.

I love this scale and have considered purchasing a couple of LC Racing's offerings, but can't justify it since there isn't a place I'm aware of close by to run them. I view LC Racing as Mini Tekno's, you are getting a lot for the money.

I sold off my Losi Mini's, because I couldn't justify spending money on the parts needed to bring them up to where I wanted them to be. For the cost of those parts, I could have bought something from LC Racing.

For crawlers/trail trucks, I'm going to stick with 1/10th scale. The trail I hike on is perfect for one and I've been wanting to drive a crawler/trail truck on it for some time now. If the Zuul goes on sale over the holiday season, I'm definitely going to pick one up.

I loved the 1/18 scene, sadly it is taken over by the Mini-Z generation. I have done a complete mod on an M18 with more adjustable suspension, I have run an MRS4 over 100km/h with an average speed of 99.6km/h on an oval bicycle track, started with the build of an NT18 with an OS 1.7cc engine until I got myself a real NT18 and did run several competitions.

+ YouTube Video

The majority of this list is crawlers and minis. I think that's a pretty good indication of where the general RC market is at - people want relatively affordable RC's you can enjoy at home. Notably the micro-b is at the #4 spot despite only being out only for a month at the time this video was made. I guess I was right about it being a far more appealing car than any of the Kyosho micros.

And I think it also nicely supports what I've been saying - the barrier to entry for racing is too high. Not only in terms of price, but in terms of how and when you can really get the most out of a race vehicle. You have to go to a track, which you may only be able to do once a week, where you spend 8 hours only to get 15 minutes of track time. Compare that to a crawler that you can use to it's max capability any time you want with just a pile of rocks in your back yard. Or the large number of minis/micros on the list that you can easily run around in your house any time you want.

With racing in its current form, you simply do not have the flexibility to enjoy using your car whenever you want to or are able to do so.

This is just an uncomfortable truth. Honestly, I can't even do a test run up my driveway as my 800' driveway is gravel/loose stone.....