231LikesAssociated Reflex 14B/14T
01-07-2021 | 05:19 PM
#646
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 76
Was waiting to pick one of these up but couldn't find any in stock for a while... Looks like I just bought DJJOHNR's car from ebay. no real plans except to bash and maybe go to a turf indoor track about 40mins away. Just skimmed this thread and lots of good info. Will post picks and such.
01-27-2021 | 08:41 PM
#648
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 64
As luck would have it, the school behind us finally converted the infield of the baseball diamond from grass to dirt. I was finally able to see and appreciate how these perform on a nice dirt track. They are very controllable! A guy showed up with a 1:10 Redcat 2wd truggy and he couldn’t keep up with us. His was very uncontrollable.
I let him drive mine and he was blown away at the control on dirt, even with full throttle.
Tony.
I let him drive mine and he was blown away at the control on dirt, even with full throttle.
Tony.
03-07-2021 | 09:30 PM
#649
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 64
I posted this question in the general off-road section but didn't get any actual feedback, so here goes...
I upgraded to the metal ring and pinions in the front and back diffs. My car is a little noisier now, as to be expected. I gave the car a detailed teardown and rebuild and put fresh black grease inside the diff housings and a good coat on the metal ring and pinion. The diffs were a little stiff at first, but after a couple of runs, they spin very nice now. I replaced a few rusted out bearings (ran in the snow and mud this winter) and ultrasonic cleaned the diffs (disassembled), ring and pinion, dogbones and U-joints to remove corrosion and old grease. I used hot soapy water, followed by a denatured alcohol ultrasonic cleaning to remove any water left over.
I coated all the drive shafts and outdrives in Lucas gun oil.
So my question is about the metal ring and pinions. Should I switch to a thick oil in the front and back gearboxes with the black grease inside the diff case, or do I just keep using the black grease? Is there a different lube method with the metal gears?
I got some 1/10 scale touring tires on the way as well as a set of Mini 8ight desert tires.
Tony.
I upgraded to the metal ring and pinions in the front and back diffs. My car is a little noisier now, as to be expected. I gave the car a detailed teardown and rebuild and put fresh black grease inside the diff housings and a good coat on the metal ring and pinion. The diffs were a little stiff at first, but after a couple of runs, they spin very nice now. I replaced a few rusted out bearings (ran in the snow and mud this winter) and ultrasonic cleaned the diffs (disassembled), ring and pinion, dogbones and U-joints to remove corrosion and old grease. I used hot soapy water, followed by a denatured alcohol ultrasonic cleaning to remove any water left over.
I coated all the drive shafts and outdrives in Lucas gun oil.
So my question is about the metal ring and pinions. Should I switch to a thick oil in the front and back gearboxes with the black grease inside the diff case, or do I just keep using the black grease? Is there a different lube method with the metal gears?
I got some 1/10 scale touring tires on the way as well as a set of Mini 8ight desert tires.
Tony.
03-09-2021 | 03:20 AM
#650
Tech Rookie
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 15
I posted this question in the general off-road section but didn't get any actual feedback, so here goes...
I upgraded to the metal ring and pinions in the front and back diffs. My car is a little noisier now, as to be expected. I gave the car a detailed teardown and rebuild and put fresh black grease inside the diff housings and a good coat on the metal ring and pinion. The diffs were a little stiff at first, but after a couple of runs, they spin very nice now. I replaced a few rusted out bearings (ran in the snow and mud this winter) and ultrasonic cleaned the diffs (disassembled), ring and pinion, dogbones and U-joints to remove corrosion and old grease. I used hot soapy water, followed by a denatured alcohol ultrasonic cleaning to remove any water left over.
I coated all the drive shafts and outdrives in Lucas gun oil.
So my question is about the metal ring and pinions. Should I switch to a thick oil in the front and back gearboxes with the black grease inside the diff case, or do I just keep using the black grease? Is there a different lube method with the metal gears?
I got some 1/10 scale touring tires on the way as well as a set of Mini 8ight desert tires.
Tony.
I upgraded to the metal ring and pinions in the front and back diffs. My car is a little noisier now, as to be expected. I gave the car a detailed teardown and rebuild and put fresh black grease inside the diff housings and a good coat on the metal ring and pinion. The diffs were a little stiff at first, but after a couple of runs, they spin very nice now. I replaced a few rusted out bearings (ran in the snow and mud this winter) and ultrasonic cleaned the diffs (disassembled), ring and pinion, dogbones and U-joints to remove corrosion and old grease. I used hot soapy water, followed by a denatured alcohol ultrasonic cleaning to remove any water left over.
I coated all the drive shafts and outdrives in Lucas gun oil.
So my question is about the metal ring and pinions. Should I switch to a thick oil in the front and back gearboxes with the black grease inside the diff case, or do I just keep using the black grease? Is there a different lube method with the metal gears?
I got some 1/10 scale touring tires on the way as well as a set of Mini 8ight desert tires.
Tony.
03-09-2021 | 12:51 PM
#651
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 64
Thanks! I e-mailed Associated and they said I could use different lube if I feel I need to, but still recommended black grease. The frustrating thing is that there's no place I can find that shows how much grease to apply.
Tony.
Tony.
03-13-2021 | 03:03 AM
#652
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 64
Just posted a speed test with my GoPro Hero5 mounted to my buggy. I enabled GPS to track my speed. Looks like I topped out at 34 MPH with the 80mm tires and a 2S LiPo. I have a 3S Maxamps on the way. We'll see how that one works out.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/TLcA4K16Wr4R/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/TLcA4K16Wr4R/
Last edited by TonyBen; 03-13-2021 at 08:24 AM.
03-17-2021 | 12:42 AM
#653
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 64
If anyone is curious, I calculated the pinion gear pitch. I haven't seen it posted here, unless I missed it. It's a Mod 0.5 pitch. I ordered a Zuomini 2838 motor for my buggy and it has a 3.17mm shaft, which means I'll have to bore the pinion out, or special order a pinion with a 1/8" bore.
Tony.
Tony.
03-21-2021 | 05:18 PM
#655
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 64
So I shoved a 3s LiPo in my buggy and did a speed test with my friend driving as a chase car. The GoPro GPS tracked it at a top speed of 51 MPH, or 82 KPH!
Video...
https://i.imgur.com/U9cZwvuh.mp4
After the run, I put the Losi desert buggy tires back on and played in the dirt. I finally smoked my Reedy motor. Ordered a Hobbywing 2435 to get be going again while I wait for my 2838.
Tony.
Video...
https://i.imgur.com/U9cZwvuh.mp4
After the run, I put the Losi desert buggy tires back on and played in the dirt. I finally smoked my Reedy motor. Ordered a Hobbywing 2435 to get be going again while I wait for my 2838.
Tony.
Last edited by TonyBen; 03-21-2021 at 10:30 PM.
04-26-2021 | 03:19 PM
#656
Tech Rookie
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 5
Thanks to everyone who contributed in this thread. I recently picked up a pair of these and got back into RC a bit after a few years off (about 3 decades worth).
My kid and I have had loads of fun with them as stock. And I started to read up on the new (to me) electronics and dabble in some telemetry as well for fun. So I recently thought I'd walk through a few different setups and provide some data.
I don't have much to add on track/handling performance. Were mostly just street or curb bashing and having fun. But I did move to 16bl30 ESC's on both to mess with programming. And then it was all downhill from there.... motors, esc, radio, gps... lol.
So here's a quick summary of some testing I just completed. I figured I was about due to redux the diffs and I have the new fancy shock bits on the way from associated, so I figured I'd throw some motor and esc at one to see how far things would get.
Reflex Speedrun Test (part 1)
Top speed measured with SKYRC GSM020 as well as Spektrum SPMA95870. They were typically within 1mph of each other.
Run 1 : Stock 14b + Quicrun 16BL30 ESC + Trinity 2S 1600mAh 30C pack + Stock Reedy 4500k + 16t
Wanted to get a baseline. Note, the road I'm testing on has a grade. So it's a slightly downhill number. I spreadsheet-ed an estimated speed for each run based on gearing (2.46 trans, 3.36 spur) wheel diameter, and kv to predict an estimate (including some ballooning as well as some ESC inefficiency).
Top Speed (estimated) - 29.7 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 29 mph
Run 2: See above, replace stock tires (2.75" dia) with LC Rally wheels/tires (2.5" dia).
I'm guessing the stock tires are going to be not good for speed runs. Too much possible ballooning. Ballooning is bad... an unwanted spike on the drive-train and current. I figured I'd get some baseline tests in with the stock tires first but end up on foam or road tires and wanted to get baseline with these LC's as they seem to hold up well.
Top Speed (estimated) - 27.0 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 27 mph
Run 3 : Back to stock tires. Now I swapped in a Venom 3s pack 1300mA 20C. I figured 20C was enough when I bought it, but then I started doing some math. I'm guessing it (and maybe even the 16BL30) will current limit, but we'll see.
Top Speed (estimated) - 44.6 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 43 mph
Now we're starting to move!
Run 4 : Ok so when I bought the Quicrun I also saw that some folks had the Quickrun 2435 motor. I picked one up to try out. It's same 4500kv but it's 2 pole. My understanding is that 2 pole will have slightly higher current (and heat) to high slightly higher RPM. Same KV, but KV is with no load. What matters is how the gearing and load at RPM factor. So I wanted to see. So this "run 4" is with 2s and the Quicrun motor (it should compare directly to "run 1"
Top Speed (estimated) - 29.7 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 31 mph
Interesting. So maybe the 2-pole does indeed get to higher RPM... at least on 2S. Lets see on 3s next...
Run 5 : Same setup as above, but with the Venom 3s pack.
Top Speed (estimated) - 44.6 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 41 mph
In this case, the 4 pole was slightly faster. I suspect it may be because I'm now close to the current limit? So let's check that for the next test.
Run 6 : Same setup as "run 5" except swapped in a Quicrun 10BL60 ESC and MaxAmp 100C 3s pack. Note, i didn't weigh things, but the maxamp pack is a lot heavier than the venom 3s.
So this should increase current to 60 amps (if any of these specs are worth a dime).
Top Speed (estimated) - 44.6 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 44 mph
Ok a measurable difference. So maybe these things really are drawing some juice. Note that at 40+ mph those stock tires are ballooning a bit. I estimate diameter increases ~20% at speed... so 2.75 becomes over 3". That's quite the additional gearing. Not ideal.
Run 7 : At this point I'm wondering what all that extra juice can do. And it's where I made my first mistake. At this point I should have ditched the stock wheels tires and dropped down to the LC rally set or some road foams.
So I swapped in a TenShock 2838 that I had run on 2s and even 3s before with the older ESC. And I had a run or two in with it on the 2.5" road tires and it's scooting. So I expected this to be a bit nuts or break. Usually it's both, and it was. This version is a 6850kV which is like 6.5T (i'm old) and it hauls on 2S. It's way too much for 3S, but this was just a road run I needed to rebuild the diff anyway...
Top Speed (estimated) - 69 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 54 mph (diff blew during run).
Note - the 69 mph estimate is likely unobtainable. That would be like ~80k RPM. I don't know what these $29.99 motors can do, but I'm pretty sure will turn into light light bulbs at 80k rpm. I'm guessing any significant gain will need to be in gearing with tires that can handle speed.
I tried to slow roll it but with the final punch it was wheel standing. So much ballooning the tires looked like saucers. I'm not sure when the diff blew, but I appreciated my 2nd favorite discovery of RC these days... the gyro steering (Spektrum AVC) which kept it straight despite the craziness.
So... that ends part 1. This stripped the spur gear, the inside diff bearing decoupled, and the diff out drive cap was toast. So I'm waiting on diff caps and I'll probably order some foams. Sitting in the box next to the TenShock 2838 are the US Racestar 2845's (5000kv and 5900kv) that I'll try next. I also have the Hot Racing 18T... but that's as big as I've been able to find in mod 0.5.
Hope the data is useful. I'll update with part 2 once rebuilt.
My kid and I have had loads of fun with them as stock. And I started to read up on the new (to me) electronics and dabble in some telemetry as well for fun. So I recently thought I'd walk through a few different setups and provide some data.
I don't have much to add on track/handling performance. Were mostly just street or curb bashing and having fun. But I did move to 16bl30 ESC's on both to mess with programming. And then it was all downhill from there.... motors, esc, radio, gps... lol.
So here's a quick summary of some testing I just completed. I figured I was about due to redux the diffs and I have the new fancy shock bits on the way from associated, so I figured I'd throw some motor and esc at one to see how far things would get.
Reflex Speedrun Test (part 1)
Top speed measured with SKYRC GSM020 as well as Spektrum SPMA95870. They were typically within 1mph of each other.
Run 1 : Stock 14b + Quicrun 16BL30 ESC + Trinity 2S 1600mAh 30C pack + Stock Reedy 4500k + 16t
Wanted to get a baseline. Note, the road I'm testing on has a grade. So it's a slightly downhill number. I spreadsheet-ed an estimated speed for each run based on gearing (2.46 trans, 3.36 spur) wheel diameter, and kv to predict an estimate (including some ballooning as well as some ESC inefficiency).
Top Speed (estimated) - 29.7 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 29 mph
Run 2: See above, replace stock tires (2.75" dia) with LC Rally wheels/tires (2.5" dia).
I'm guessing the stock tires are going to be not good for speed runs. Too much possible ballooning. Ballooning is bad... an unwanted spike on the drive-train and current. I figured I'd get some baseline tests in with the stock tires first but end up on foam or road tires and wanted to get baseline with these LC's as they seem to hold up well.
Top Speed (estimated) - 27.0 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 27 mph
Run 3 : Back to stock tires. Now I swapped in a Venom 3s pack 1300mA 20C. I figured 20C was enough when I bought it, but then I started doing some math. I'm guessing it (and maybe even the 16BL30) will current limit, but we'll see.
Top Speed (estimated) - 44.6 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 43 mph
Now we're starting to move!
Run 4 : Ok so when I bought the Quicrun I also saw that some folks had the Quickrun 2435 motor. I picked one up to try out. It's same 4500kv but it's 2 pole. My understanding is that 2 pole will have slightly higher current (and heat) to high slightly higher RPM. Same KV, but KV is with no load. What matters is how the gearing and load at RPM factor. So I wanted to see. So this "run 4" is with 2s and the Quicrun motor (it should compare directly to "run 1"
Top Speed (estimated) - 29.7 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 31 mph
Interesting. So maybe the 2-pole does indeed get to higher RPM... at least on 2S. Lets see on 3s next...
Run 5 : Same setup as above, but with the Venom 3s pack.
Top Speed (estimated) - 44.6 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 41 mph
In this case, the 4 pole was slightly faster. I suspect it may be because I'm now close to the current limit? So let's check that for the next test.
Run 6 : Same setup as "run 5" except swapped in a Quicrun 10BL60 ESC and MaxAmp 100C 3s pack. Note, i didn't weigh things, but the maxamp pack is a lot heavier than the venom 3s.
So this should increase current to 60 amps (if any of these specs are worth a dime).
Top Speed (estimated) - 44.6 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 44 mph
Ok a measurable difference. So maybe these things really are drawing some juice. Note that at 40+ mph those stock tires are ballooning a bit. I estimate diameter increases ~20% at speed... so 2.75 becomes over 3". That's quite the additional gearing. Not ideal.
Run 7 : At this point I'm wondering what all that extra juice can do. And it's where I made my first mistake. At this point I should have ditched the stock wheels tires and dropped down to the LC rally set or some road foams.
So I swapped in a TenShock 2838 that I had run on 2s and even 3s before with the older ESC. And I had a run or two in with it on the 2.5" road tires and it's scooting. So I expected this to be a bit nuts or break. Usually it's both, and it was. This version is a 6850kV which is like 6.5T (i'm old) and it hauls on 2S. It's way too much for 3S, but this was just a road run I needed to rebuild the diff anyway...
Top Speed (estimated) - 69 mph
Top Speed (measured) - 54 mph (diff blew during run).
Note - the 69 mph estimate is likely unobtainable. That would be like ~80k RPM. I don't know what these $29.99 motors can do, but I'm pretty sure will turn into light light bulbs at 80k rpm. I'm guessing any significant gain will need to be in gearing with tires that can handle speed.
I tried to slow roll it but with the final punch it was wheel standing. So much ballooning the tires looked like saucers. I'm not sure when the diff blew, but I appreciated my 2nd favorite discovery of RC these days... the gyro steering (Spektrum AVC) which kept it straight despite the craziness.
So... that ends part 1. This stripped the spur gear, the inside diff bearing decoupled, and the diff out drive cap was toast. So I'm waiting on diff caps and I'll probably order some foams. Sitting in the box next to the TenShock 2838 are the US Racestar 2845's (5000kv and 5900kv) that I'll try next. I also have the Hot Racing 18T... but that's as big as I've been able to find in mod 0.5.
Hope the data is useful. I'll update with part 2 once rebuilt.
Last edited by merlocka; 04-26-2021 at 08:01 PM.
04-26-2021 | 03:35 PM
#657
Tech Rookie
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 5
>I ordered a Zuomini 2838 motor for my buggy and it has a 3.17mm shaft, which means I'll have to bore the pinion out, or special order a pinion with a 1/8" bore.
Yes I think I ordered about every 0.5mod pinion I could find.
AE has only the 16t 2.3mm 0.5m
There is a 15t i found on ebay for the 2.3mm shaft motors.
For the 1/8 shaft, you can get Hot Racing 0.5mod pinions 15t to 18t.
I don't have anything bigger than 18t in 0.5mod 3.175mm shaft (1/8), but I just ordered a few from China up to 22t. Not sure they will fit at the shaft.
Note - for the Hot Racing pinions (for 28xx motors) you will need to bore out the motor mount inner hole. Be careful. And as others have said, for 2838 motor you need to remove the small axle cover near the mount. For 2845 motor, you need to clean off the 2nd ESC tray mount in order for it to clear.
Final thought... with the spur gears available (58 being the lowest, and anything smaller is probably limited by the teeth-fit mount), the top speed will be limited by pinion. A 24T 48p won't fit inside the motor mount without modifying for clearance (and it wouldn't work anyway as it's not 0.5mod). If there is a workable 22T (which would be 12mm diameter) that would be the tallest gearing I'm aware of (and still not sure it would fit). With 65mm tires and ~50k RPM this will peak at ~55mph. So unless my math is wrong or someone figured out how to gear this taller let me know.
Probably not worth it because even stock they are quick enough for just about anything. But if it didn't break you didn't try hard.
Yes I think I ordered about every 0.5mod pinion I could find.
AE has only the 16t 2.3mm 0.5m
There is a 15t i found on ebay for the 2.3mm shaft motors.
For the 1/8 shaft, you can get Hot Racing 0.5mod pinions 15t to 18t.
I don't have anything bigger than 18t in 0.5mod 3.175mm shaft (1/8), but I just ordered a few from China up to 22t. Not sure they will fit at the shaft.
Note - for the Hot Racing pinions (for 28xx motors) you will need to bore out the motor mount inner hole. Be careful. And as others have said, for 2838 motor you need to remove the small axle cover near the mount. For 2845 motor, you need to clean off the 2nd ESC tray mount in order for it to clear.
Final thought... with the spur gears available (58 being the lowest, and anything smaller is probably limited by the teeth-fit mount), the top speed will be limited by pinion. A 24T 48p won't fit inside the motor mount without modifying for clearance (and it wouldn't work anyway as it's not 0.5mod). If there is a workable 22T (which would be 12mm diameter) that would be the tallest gearing I'm aware of (and still not sure it would fit). With 65mm tires and ~50k RPM this will peak at ~55mph. So unless my math is wrong or someone figured out how to gear this taller let me know.
Probably not worth it because even stock they are quick enough for just about anything. But if it didn't break you didn't try hard.
Last edited by merlocka; 04-26-2021 at 08:11 PM.
04-29-2021 | 06:32 AM
#658
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 64
Anyone have two 72T spur gear bottom covers I can have? I have worn through both of ours on mine and my son's cars doing jumps. I'll be making a skid-plate for the next sets. I'll pay for shipping. With the 3S batteries, I strip out the smaller 50T spur gears quickly and the 72T gets me more low end torque. The cars are slow with 2S, but just right with 3S.
The 24mm motors get too hot too quickly. I burned out the original motors and a Hobbywing Quicrun 24mm motor in no time with 3S. Hobbywing replaced my motor and it's still new in the box but I'm waiting on my second Zouminy 28mm can.
The 28mm motors last much longer before getting too hot to touch.
Tony.
The 24mm motors get too hot too quickly. I burned out the original motors and a Hobbywing Quicrun 24mm motor in no time with 3S. Hobbywing replaced my motor and it's still new in the box but I'm waiting on my second Zouminy 28mm can.
The 28mm motors last much longer before getting too hot to touch.
Tony.
05-18-2021 | 03:01 PM
#660
I just purchased a couple of new B14’s, looking forward to trying them out. Can anyone recommend some good road wheel/tire models that fit directly on B14? I don’t have the cars yet to confirm what the hub/axle is so I’m curious to know what is compatible so I can order some new wheels prior to their arrival.
Also, can someone confirm the battery tray dimensions? Is it 100x30x20mm? Is there any issues with running batteries right up to the 100mm mark?
Was thinking of this one, but its dimensions are: 101x29x17mm, which puts it right at the upper limit of what will fit. Please let know if getting to 100mm is advisable.
Also, can someone confirm the battery tray dimensions? Is it 100x30x20mm? Is there any issues with running batteries right up to the 100mm mark?
Was thinking of this one, but its dimensions are: 101x29x17mm, which puts it right at the upper limit of what will fit. Please let know if getting to 100mm is advisable.
Last edited by rearviewmirror; 05-18-2021 at 06:42 PM.