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Old 09-19-2017 | 10:08 AM
  #29626  
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Originally Posted by xSTxPhoeniXx
Hi, firstly I'm new to RC and currently have no car (Thinking about 1/10 touring or minis)

But my question for the m05 is do the 3 different wheelbases impact the way it races much or is it mainly just for different bodies?

Again I haven't decided touring or minis but I will be racing on asphalt during summer, indoor carpet during winter and wondered what wheelbase was the best for both situations. If there was one that is.

Again sorry I do not own the car but it would be nice to know what people are running.

Thanks
Wheelbase greatly affects handling. I would suggest you get the M-07 over the M-05 unless you are set on the 210mm wheelbase. That is not offered with the M-07.
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Old 09-19-2017 | 11:31 AM
  #29627  
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So far I've ordered the HK Cooper body, ESC, servo and motor for my Mini. Plenty enough to drive around with, wouldn't you say? May have to wait until the end of the month to get the car itself, but at least I can simply walk in to the local store and walk out with it, no need to wait for an order to arrive. Though with bad luck the motor might take quite some time to arrive, as it is coming from China. So I might have a motorless car for a while. I just hope it arrives within 3,5 weeks so I can attend a race with the car and completely embarrass myself
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Old 09-19-2017 | 06:11 PM
  #29628  
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Originally Posted by Papi
But by arranging these suspension conponents, you'll introduce some additional forces from drivetrain into suspension. You can make same geometry on rear axle of FWD, but it won't have same effect, since there are no forces to act against cog change.
Originally Posted by howardcano
No. The anti-squat forces are created by the forward thrust of the driven wheel reacting through the angled suspension arms. No thrust means no anti-squat force. If you can provide a force diagram that shows something different, I'll take a look.
Originally Posted by patorz31
Dug through some Engineering papers I had on my computer. Here is what I was taught about Anti Squat. "Anti-Squat is a suspension characteristic that can be introduced in the rear suspension to reduce the amount of suspension compression travel during acceleration. This only applies to cars that are either 4WD or RWD; no anti-squat system can be implemented on a FWD car. This is because, in its action of reducing the amount of compressive suspension travel (or squatting in the rear) during acceleration, it uses the traction force that the driving wheels develop. " Can you get Anti-Lift on the M07?
You guys are all thinking correctly for RWD and 4WD applications, and please note that I mention them in my last post. However, click the link in my last post for an example of anti-squat without mention of which wheels are driven and follow me on this explanation... During acceleration, the CoG pulls the front of the car up while pushing the rear of the car down because the CoG is higher than both inner hingepins (actually the plane they rotate about). Agreed? Watch any FWD 1:1 car try to accelerate hard, the rear will squat a bit. Now change the angle of the rear inner hingepin so that it points directly at the CoG. When the CoG tries to slosh backwards and push the rear suspension down (squat), it won't be able to because its force is attempting to push directly through the inner hingepins that are pointing directly at it. That's 100% anti-squat. No driven wheels required.

I acknowledge every example of RWD and 4WD anti-squat techniques and phenomenon, but they all include the exact same principle I outlined above while including more fun features that aren't possible on FWD applications. But to say that anti-squat can't be used on FWD is old thinking.
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Old 09-19-2017 | 06:51 PM
  #29629  
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Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe
Now change the angle of the rear inner hingepin so that it points directly at the CoG. When the CoG tries to slosh backwards and push the rear suspension down (squat), it won't be able to because its force is attempting to push directly through the inner hingepins that are pointing directly at it. That's 100% anti-squat. No driven wheels required.
Please draw a force diagram. For an accelerating FWD car, the CG is not trying to push the rear tire backwards via the rear hinge pin lines. It's just the opposite: The suspension arms are PULLING on the weight of the tire to accelerate it along with the rest of the car.

This is exactly the opposite of what is needed for anti-squat to work. It's also a very small force, since the weight of the tire is small in comparison to the entire car.

All of this brings me back to my statement that started the discussion: you can arrange the suspension arms however you want, you can even call it "anti-squat", but no anti-squat forces are being generated if the wheel is not driven.

I will comment no more, as I think everyone has become bored with the subject.
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Old 09-19-2017 | 08:39 PM
  #29630  
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I was told there would be no math.
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Old 09-19-2017 | 09:31 PM
  #29631  
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing
I was told there would be no math.
Oh we didnt even do the math yet Jim but i figure you know how to it anyway.....
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Old 09-20-2017 | 10:22 AM
  #29632  
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Originally Posted by patorz31
Oh we didnt even do the math yet Jim but i figure you know how to it anyway.....
I admit, I was visualizing all the geometry and numbers in my noggin, but it got painful. My brain told me to go shopping instead. Ended up getting ice cream. It’s all good now.
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Old 09-20-2017 | 11:00 AM
  #29633  
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing
I admit, I was visualizing all the geometry and numbers in my noggin, but it got painful. My brain told me to go shopping instead. Ended up getting ice cream. It’s all good now.
Rocky Road for me. Get it? Well, at least I tried.
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Old 09-20-2017 | 11:44 AM
  #29634  
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By the way, does the M-05 V2 R not have an aluminum steering link? Product info doesn't mention it and the manual didn't seem to either. I know a black anodized steering link does exist because there is one in the "Tamiya 84407 M-05 Ver.II Aluminium Parts Set (Black Anodized)" hop-up set. Outside of that set it doesn't exist in black as an aftermarket option, so it seems odd of it is not included with the car kit. And it seems like on part that with many cars seems to be a common upgrade to make, kinda lame if they simply skimped out on it here.
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Old 09-20-2017 | 03:37 PM
  #29635  
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It's only available as part of the 84407 set. Like most of the black parts it was very limited availability.
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Old 09-20-2017 | 08:53 PM
  #29636  
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Originally Posted by howardcano
Rocky Road for me. Get it? Well, at least I tried.
I had the Willy Wonka. Chocolate, chocolate, chocolate, etc....anyway, finally buttoned up the M07. Finally get to run it next week. The M07 S isn’t progressing so well. Got some epoxy specifically made for plastics, but it’s not sticking. Work in progress.
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Old 09-20-2017 | 11:19 PM
  #29637  
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Originally Posted by Papi
Tamiya plastics should be nylon, which is hard to glue with superglue or epoxy... Maybe that's why rhey used that big servo mount, it's holding chassis in one piece
The M07 chassis uses a new fibreglass reinforced plastic. Not sure whether it's nylon based.
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Old 09-21-2017 | 09:32 AM
  #29638  
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Feels and cuts like carbon reinforced nylon. Not my first priority at the moment anyway.
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Old 09-22-2017 | 10:58 AM
  #29639  
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Well, turns out I couldn't wait and got the M-05 V2 R kit already. But I must say my first impressions aren't that great. Even though I had looked at the part list and also briefly at the manual, it still seems there's less aluminum overall than I somehow expected. And the plastic... doesn't inspire confidence. I'm only at step 6, and as I was screwing in the king pin to the front upright, the damn upright cracked from that side well before the screw was even all the way down (and I noticed that apparently you can't even screw them all the way down... at least not without inviting more chance of cracking). Not sure how long it'll last in use, and according to the above posts epoxy-ing it won't work either. Sigh Does even modeling glue have any effect? Although since it's not particularly strong, I suppose it wouldn't help too much with longevity.

This isn't what I'd call a cheap kit, and especially coming from the offroad side of things this kind of plastic just seems... cheap and crappy And of course, aluminum uprights cost a relative fortune and are NOT available in black, the all-black look being one reason I went for the R. Is the M-07 plastic better? Not that it'd help me at this point.

Oh well. Hopefully no more setbacks...

The rant aside, tires question. For indoor carpet, do the 53215 slicks have more grip than the 50683 radials? These two are the allowed options in the race class I'm participating in, in addition to reinforced slicks which to my understanding are mainly for outdoors? I kinda assumed they would have more grip, being slicks, but after dry-mounting them and thinking on it again I then I realized I don't know what type of rubber either of them are and so on. The radials obviously look a lot nicer, so if the grip is at least as good as the slicks, they'd be nicer to have (although I have to use this set of slicks first anyway since I already bought 'em, I guess).
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Old 09-22-2017 | 06:23 PM
  #29640  
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Originally Posted by tvih
Well, turns out I couldn't wait and got the M-05 V2 R kit already. But I must say my first impressions aren't that great. Even though I had looked at the part list and also briefly at the manual, it still seems there's less aluminum overall than I somehow expected. And the plastic... doesn't inspire confidence. I'm only at step 6, and as I was screwing in the king pin to the front upright, the damn upright cracked from that side well before the screw was even all the way down (and I noticed that apparently you can't even screw them all the way down... at least not without inviting more chance of cracking). Not sure how long it'll last in use, and according to the above posts epoxy-ing it won't work either. Sigh Does even modeling glue have any effect? Although since it's not particularly strong, I suppose it wouldn't help too much with longevity.

This isn't what I'd call a cheap kit, and especially coming from the offroad side of things this kind of plastic just seems... cheap and crappy And of course, aluminum uprights cost a relative fortune and are NOT available in black, the all-black look being one reason I went for the R. Is the M-07 plastic better? Not that it'd help me at this point.

Oh well. Hopefully no more setbacks...

The rant aside, tires question. For indoor carpet, do the 53215 slicks have more grip than the 50683 radials? These two are the allowed options in the race class I'm participating in, in addition to reinforced slicks which to my understanding are mainly for outdoors? I kinda assumed they would have more grip, being slicks, but after dry-mounting them and thinking on it again I then I realized I don't know what type of rubber either of them are and so on. The radials obviously look a lot nicer, so if the grip is at least as good as the slicks, they'd be nicer to have (although I have to use this set of slicks first anyway since I already bought 'em, I guess).
I don't know how much you ended up paying for yours, but it is still one of the cheaper kits on the market. I got mine for around $160 USD. The plastics are a bit crappy, they're pretty soft. That usually means durable as they'll flex instead of cracking, so I'm surprised you cracked yours just by screwing. My guess is that you had the king pin misaligned while screwing it, it can be tricky to align correctly. I like to pre thread them before installing them in the C hub. Replacement F parts are cheap, I'd just order a new part rather than try to repair the current one.

The one plastic part on that kit that really needs to be alloy in my opinion is the steering link between the two bellcranks. It's so flimsy. I couldn't find a black one so I'm still using the plastic.

M07 plastics are quite different. Much stiffer but the front knuckles are much more likely to break in a crash.
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