R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Like Tree204Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-15-2017, 04:04 PM   #29626
Tech Master
 
eR1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,565
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
But speaking of spare parts - what would be common ones to have one hand for racing for the M-05 specifically? I'm currently semi-decided on the M-05 V2 R, so if I get that I don't really need any hop-ups, but trying googling about spare parts just tends to lead to topics about hop-ups.
I've been racing my M05 (and various versions of) for at least 4 seasons and have only had to replace a steering knuckle once. ...Someone mentioned gears, ...you shouldn't have to replace any of the gears w/ a 21.5t brushless or slower ever.

I really don't think there is anythnig that fails repeatedly on the M05 or would need replacing regularly. I suppose if you crash hard a lot then its a different story.
ZEe_NYC and KA2AEV like this.
eR1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 05:53 AM   #29627
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Finland
Posts: 321
Default

The required class motor for the "faster" mini class (as compared to stock mini with the standard brushed motor) here is a Toro 13t/3000kv... or well, there are I think a total of three motor options but all are in the same speed range.

I'll most certainly be slow enough to get passed by a 21.5t speed car easily, though
tvih is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2017, 05:09 PM   #29628
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 40
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Regarding m05, how much toe out do I have to run to prevent random swerving? I have my tie rods built with 1.5mm gap between the ball cups.
moistAF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2017, 07:26 PM   #29629
Tech Elite
 
Greg Sharpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ...building minis
Posts: 3,237
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
I never stated that squat is due to the rear wheels being driven. I said that anti-squat, as accomplished by angling the inner hinge pins, is enabled by the rear wheels being driven. Here are my exact words:
...anti-squat, which is an arrangement of the suspension that uses the forces from the tire patch being pushed forward by the motor when accelerating...
Yes, a FWD car still squats under acceleration. The remainder of your statement is nicely worded.
...and in that I am trying to say nicely that you're partially incorrect. Anti-squat is only an arrangement of suspension components, and does not necessarily have anything to do with which wheels are being driven. The car simply needs to be accelerating, forcing the CoG to affect the rear suspension in order for an anti-squat geometry to work it's magic. In doing so, it matters not which wheels are doing the accelerating. However, if you grew up with live axle RWD cars you are entirely forgiven for believing anti-squat needs to be RWD because of the way it's taught in those car communities. The drag community as a whole does some really neat things with RWD geometry, but that's only confuses the discussion here in FWD land. There are many great resources and videos around the net to illustrate this phenomenon in FWD arrangements (on Youtube, etc.). And please know that I only bring this up so that we, as the FWD community, can fully embrace this adjustment on our chassis (especially the M-07). Race on my friend!
__________________
Why don't we endurance race more often?
Greg Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 02:25 AM   #29630
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 207
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
Anti-squat is only an arrangement of suspension components, and does not necessarily have anything to do with which wheels are being driven.
But by arranging these suspension conponents, you'll introduce some additional forces from drivetrain into suspension. You can make same geometry on rear axle of FWD, but it won't have same effect, since there are no forces to act against cog change.
Papi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 05:34 AM   #29631
Tech Elite
 
howardcano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 3,623
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
...and in that I am trying to say nicely that you're partially incorrect. Anti-squat is only an arrangement of suspension components, and does not necessarily have anything to do with which wheels are being driven. The car simply needs to be accelerating, forcing the CoG to affect the rear suspension in order for an anti-squat geometry to work it's magic. In doing so, it matters not which wheels are doing the accelerating.
No. The anti-squat forces are created by the forward thrust of the driven wheel reacting through the angled suspension arms. No thrust means no anti-squat force.

If you can provide a force diagram that shows something different, I'll take a look.
__________________
Howard Cano
When race results are re-calculated using the IOF (Index Of Fun), I always win.
1993 ROAR 1/8 Pan National Champion

Last edited by howardcano; 09-18-2017 at 05:53 AM. Reason: Changed "free-body" to "force".
howardcano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 12:53 PM   #29632
Tech Master
 
patorz31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edmonton Ab
Posts: 1,430
Default

Dug through some Engineering papers I had on my computer. Here is what I was taught about Anti Squat.

"Anti-Squat is a suspension characteristic that can be introduced in the rear suspension to reduce the amount of suspension compression travel during acceleration. This only
applies to cars that are either 4WD or RWD; no anti-squat system can be implemented on a FWD car. This is because, in its action of reducing the amount of compressive suspension travel (or squatting in the rear) during acceleration, it uses the traction force that the driving wheels develop. "

Can you get Anti-Lift on the M07?
__________________
Northern Alberta Scale Car Auto Racers Pres. and Promotions
SCHUMACHER RACING Canada,TEAM POWERS, Mon-Tech,Sanwa
patorz31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 11:06 AM   #29633
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17
Default

Hi, firstly I'm new to RC and currently have no car (Thinking about 1/10 touring or minis)

But my question for the m05 is do the 3 different wheelbases impact the way it races much or is it mainly just for different bodies?

Again I haven't decided touring or minis but I will be racing on asphalt during summer, indoor carpet during winter and wondered what wheelbase was the best for both situations. If there was one that is.

Again sorry I do not own the car but it would be nice to know what people are running.

Thanks
xSTxPhoeniXx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 11:08 AM   #29634
Tech Elite
 
JatoTheRipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 2,403
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xSTxPhoeniXx View Post
Hi, firstly I'm new to RC and currently have no car (Thinking about 1/10 touring or minis)

But my question for the m05 is do the 3 different wheelbases impact the way it races much or is it mainly just for different bodies?

Again I haven't decided touring or minis but I will be racing on asphalt during summer, indoor carpet during winter and wondered what wheelbase was the best for both situations. If there was one that is.

Again sorry I do not own the car but it would be nice to know what people are running.

Thanks
Wheelbase greatly affects handling. I would suggest you get the M-07 over the M-05 unless you are set on the 210mm wheelbase. That is not offered with the M-07.
__________________
Leaf Spring Mafia - Member #1
https://www.shapeways.com/shops/leafspringmafia
https://www.facebook.com/LeafSpringMafia
https://www.instagram.com/LeafSpringMafia
JatoTheRipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 12:31 PM   #29635
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Finland
Posts: 321
Default

So far I've ordered the HK Cooper body, ESC, servo and motor for my Mini. Plenty enough to drive around with, wouldn't you say? May have to wait until the end of the month to get the car itself, but at least I can simply walk in to the local store and walk out with it, no need to wait for an order to arrive. Though with bad luck the motor might take quite some time to arrive, as it is coming from China. So I might have a motorless car for a while. I just hope it arrives within 3,5 weeks so I can attend a race with the car and completely embarrass myself
tvih is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 07:11 PM   #29636
Tech Elite
 
Greg Sharpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ...building minis
Posts: 3,237
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papi View Post
But by arranging these suspension conponents, you'll introduce some additional forces from drivetrain into suspension. You can make same geometry on rear axle of FWD, but it won't have same effect, since there are no forces to act against cog change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
No. The anti-squat forces are created by the forward thrust of the driven wheel reacting through the angled suspension arms. No thrust means no anti-squat force. If you can provide a force diagram that shows something different, I'll take a look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patorz31 View Post
Dug through some Engineering papers I had on my computer. Here is what I was taught about Anti Squat. "Anti-Squat is a suspension characteristic that can be introduced in the rear suspension to reduce the amount of suspension compression travel during acceleration. This only applies to cars that are either 4WD or RWD; no anti-squat system can be implemented on a FWD car. This is because, in its action of reducing the amount of compressive suspension travel (or squatting in the rear) during acceleration, it uses the traction force that the driving wheels develop. " Can you get Anti-Lift on the M07?
You guys are all thinking correctly for RWD and 4WD applications, and please note that I mention them in my last post. However, click the link in my last post for an example of anti-squat without mention of which wheels are driven and follow me on this explanation... During acceleration, the CoG pulls the front of the car up while pushing the rear of the car down because the CoG is higher than both inner hingepins (actually the plane they rotate about). Agreed? Watch any FWD 1:1 car try to accelerate hard, the rear will squat a bit. Now change the angle of the rear inner hingepin so that it points directly at the CoG. When the CoG tries to slosh backwards and push the rear suspension down (squat), it won't be able to because its force is attempting to push directly through the inner hingepins that are pointing directly at it. That's 100% anti-squat. No driven wheels required.

I acknowledge every example of RWD and 4WD anti-squat techniques and phenomenon, but they all include the exact same principle I outlined above while including more fun features that aren't possible on FWD applications. But to say that anti-squat can't be used on FWD is old thinking.
gigaplex likes this.
__________________
Why don't we endurance race more often?
Greg Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 07:51 PM   #29637
Tech Elite
 
howardcano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 3,623
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
Now change the angle of the rear inner hingepin so that it points directly at the CoG. When the CoG tries to slosh backwards and push the rear suspension down (squat), it won't be able to because its force is attempting to push directly through the inner hingepins that are pointing directly at it. That's 100% anti-squat. No driven wheels required.
Please draw a force diagram. For an accelerating FWD car, the CG is not trying to push the rear tire backwards via the rear hinge pin lines. It's just the opposite: The suspension arms are PULLING on the weight of the tire to accelerate it along with the rest of the car.

This is exactly the opposite of what is needed for anti-squat to work. It's also a very small force, since the weight of the tire is small in comparison to the entire car.

All of this brings me back to my statement that started the discussion: you can arrange the suspension arms however you want, you can even call it "anti-squat", but no anti-squat forces are being generated if the wheel is not driven.

I will comment no more, as I think everyone has become bored with the subject.
__________________
Howard Cano
When race results are re-calculated using the IOF (Index Of Fun), I always win.
1993 ROAR 1/8 Pan National Champion
howardcano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 09:39 PM   #29638
Tech Champion
 
monkeyracing's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SnowMexico
Posts: 6,138
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

I was told there would be no math.
JatoTheRipper and gigaplex like this.
monkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 10:31 PM   #29639
Tech Master
 
patorz31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edmonton Ab
Posts: 1,430
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
I was told there would be no math.
Oh we didnt even do the math yet Jim but i figure you know how to it anyway.....
JatoTheRipper likes this.
patorz31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 11:22 AM   #29640
Tech Champion
 
monkeyracing's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SnowMexico
Posts: 6,138
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patorz31 View Post
Oh we didnt even do the math yet Jim but i figure you know how to it anyway.....
I admit, I was visualizing all the geometry and numbers in my noggin, but it got painful. My brain told me to go shopping instead. Ended up getting ice cream. Itís all good now.
monkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tamiya Mini Cooper M-03L Hop-ups mini71 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 8 01-12-2017 05:48 AM
Tamiya Mini Cooper mach51 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 10 09-02-2011 12:08 AM
FS:TAMIYA Mini Cooper, TA 04S rthmotorsports R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 4 10-20-2007 09:37 PM
Tamiya 415 MSX and M03 Mini Cooper F/S Racer X79 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 14 12-22-2006 07:38 AM
Tamiya M01,02,03, or 04 Mini Cooper ccugolf.com R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 2 12-05-2004 08:55 PM


Tags
m03, m03r ules, m05, mini, tamiya


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:44 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net