That is actually not a true statement. We have tested 13.5 on rubber tires, and they work just fine. We have tested 13.5 on TWO cell on pavement, and they work just fine.

Once again, you need to check your "facts". WGT on foam was already dead. We revived it with rubber tires. As a company that sells pan cars, why would we kill any pan car class? Our local turnout went from 5 WGT at the most on foam, to over 30 per week on rubber......and judging by the number of tires and car kits leaving here daily, someone, somewhere is running the cars on rubber.

Yes there were a couple of spots left in the country that were still getting decent foam WGT turnouts, but that is it. The first year WGT-R was at the US Indoor Champs in Cleveland, it was the third largest class behind TC Stock and 1/12th stock.

Being someone that travels to races all over the country on a frequent basis, there are multiple tracks that I go to where WGT-R is the largest class at the race. Yeah, we killed it.....

It's more than a lot of fun...I genuinely believe that this class or one similar to it, is needed for on-road to remain viable.

On-road killing it anywhere in the states?

Some of us are still holding on to the same attitudes that caused the decline of on-road more than a decade ago or thereabouts. Not intentionally I don't think, but the result the same, and, I can see the same narrative alive in this thread today. I was a part of that crowd, in the middle of it, watched it happen, perhaps a part of the problem myself. This is maybe a confession of sorts...but if you guys don't identify with what I'm saying, your lying to yourself - you know who you are. Best start looking beyond the edge of your own pit-space and start taking these actions to a logical conclusion. I doubt your local club racing scene is much different than my own. Look around your pits...same eight guys I bet, same eight guys you've been racing with for years. Maybe one or two new faces, but not much more than that right?

Yeah...no one wants to race with you, you're too hardcore.

Let me qualify that observation: where does the new guy land? Where do potential new racers go? Someone pops in on your personal sandbox and wants to race...where do you direct them? Going to give them a 1/12 foam car to start with? Uhhh, not hardly. How about one of those sexy $600.00 touring cars? Get serious. You used to have Tamiya Mini racing, but the "hardcore" crowd berated those guys to the point of not showing up anymore. Trial by fire right? Spend a couple $K and see if you like it and us, then you're in? How's that working for club attendance?

Ya buddy...it may not be much, but we have our own thing right here, just the way the eight of us like it...the same eight guys for the last ten years right? Track owner can't float that forever. Track either closes outright, or, like many have done, converts to off-road. Voila!, attendance comes back to something reasonable.

Simple solution...give those wanting to, or considering getting into our favorite hobby, a place to go and learn, without dealing with the "hardcore" costs, learning curve and attitudes. Not suggesting they need to waste their money on a Tyco, but this is why I think a class like WGT-R (1/10 rubber tire pancar) is so potentially important. This thread? 1/12 scale rubber...little smaller, same discussion. A quality pancar running rubber tires is an awesome place to learn all those things we all learned years ago, while learning on a nice chassis that can grow with their needs and abilities. Still wanna be hardcore? Do that...run 1/12 with the tires cut down to the plastic. I dig it, nothing quite like it. Touring car? Sure! Pro10 235mm pancar? No you're talking!

We won't be around forever, on-road needs to find a place for new racers to go. We aren't doing that very effectively now, and the proof is in the pits - same eight guys...

We've done that exact thing. 13.5 with a fair amount of traction work beautifully. Modern CRC carpet and I suspect you'll like it. We switch back to 17.5 during the winter months, because we share the rug with off-road and they pull up our groove. It's like driving on a green track every Sunday. More than that, we are on old school gray ozite - a bit slick when green and cold for 13.5.

What more can I say...WGT-R or any pancar class with rubber tires is awesome! I can hardly take anyone's criticism seriously unless you've tried it. As others have stated, it is a far better experience than you would imagine. Killer run time, low maintenance, low cost, cool body selection. I defy you to find closer racing - two seconds covers the top five or six in qualifying. The mains are almost always decided in the very last turn. Even the hardcore types can get excited over that.

If you're not doing WGT-R, you're not doing it right.

The problem with onroad racing isn't foam tires and rubber tires being the end all be all. The problem is people feeling they have to come up with a new class every time someone whines. There are plenty of classes for someone new to get into. But when you go to an event and they have 4 tc classes and the only difference is motor size all you do is limit the field in each class. Then the new guy has to decide what they feel will be the biggest of the classes in the near future.
If people are complaining about having to buy a truer for foam tires why don't the companies offer tires trued. JFt does that with there spec tires and it works great for people without a truer.
I'm all for progress and adapting but the question is about 1/12 and rubber tires. If you don't like foam tires don't run 1/12. I don't like rubber tires so I choose not to run those classes. But I'm not goin around trying to change a class to suit my desires.

F1 didn't slow down because the TIRES didn't work, the MOTORS were too fast.


21.5 and 2s is a ton of rip for a car that weighs 1050g. If anything, the tires worked too well. Lifting tires and traction rolling were the main issues, because people were trying to go too fast into a corner, with too much grip.

For perspective, I have also run an old HPI Super F1 on pan car foams with a 2s and a 10.5. Foams did not exactly tame that combination.

Would you go with ribbed , studded or smooth?

Isn't it obvious? Ribbed when it rains, studded for snow, and smooth for dry days.

Now that sounds like fun!

When did this thread become about F1 or WGT-R?

F1 is doing pretty good and is fine in my opinion. Wgt-r is a much bigger car, wider and heavier so it should be more stable by default. However I am fine with that class as well.

What I don't understand is why talk about either of those classes when it comes to 1/12th. I think there are issues that need to be addressed but rubber tire 1/12th scale car would be much different that either of those previous classes already brought into the discussion.

Here's a question for Dumper or anyone else, what happens to 1/12th modified? Are we going to kill it, keep it on foam and let stock be on rubber? Let mod go rubber too😃

Long live 1/12th on foam and lets try to continue to help the 2nd longest rc class and all its history survive.

I say keep everything as it is now. If you want to run foam, run 12th scale. If you want to run rubber, run WGT-R. I run both and love them both!!

Just as 2 cents. I quit running 1/12 because of the tire cost only. I quit running WGT because of the same thing, ditto for foam oval. I started with the F1 and VTA on rubber and wished it would go to a pan car GT style and it did. One run and I was hooked. It was just way more fun that running on the slot car foam. The cars begin to act like real race cars. But for this sake, the foam cars build traction faster on the track so keep them around.

I thought I read through most of the pages on this thread, entirely possible that I missed an important post...

I don't recall anyone suggesting that foam tire anything, any class go away...

When did anyone suggest 1/12 rubber replace 1/12 foam?

When did anyone suggest 1/10 WGT-R replace 1/10 WGT foam?

Is there not a place and time for both, should there be interest? I think the OP was asking about the possibility, the idea of trying rubber tires for 1/12 scale chassis.

If the very thought of considering rubber tires on 1/12 is cerebral overload for you, move on...

Not in this thread, but it has come up before. And still, why do we need a 4th or 5th 12th scale class? 17.5, 13.5, 10.5, and Open, is not enough?

It has already been done, rubber has replaced foam in all but a very few parts of the country, those parts may even still run foam on TC's, lol. To me, WGT-R will help on-road immensely with the ease of driving them and the tires will last almost a year.

To me, a rubber tire 12th class would need to replace an existing class. There are too many on-road classes as it is. Hypothetically, and in my opinion, if there was a rubber class the 12th classes would then need to be, 21.5 rubber, 17.5 foam and mod. I personally, would not change one of the longest ran classes in R/C when it is not having attendance issues.

I'm going to assume you're a decent guy for a second. We are having a discussion, this is a discussion forum is it not? This is a topic that creates debate, some of which is passionate, which is good.

Don't be a d1ck and tell people what they can care about passionately or maybe its you that needs to move on

Steve

Rubber spec tires are always preferred over foams in any class, unless the speeds are crazy fast....