6563LikesUSGT
11-02-2016 | 07:25 PM
#5686
11-02-2016 | 07:35 PM
#5687
OK,
Here's an idea straight from ROAR's website, posted about two weeks ago:
http://roarracing.com/blog/media/202..._Flyer_(1).pdf
I'm posting this, not as an idea of what to do, but of what CAN be done.
Here's an idea straight from ROAR's website, posted about two weeks ago:
http://roarracing.com/blog/media/202..._Flyer_(1).pdf
I'm posting this, not as an idea of what to do, but of what CAN be done.
11-02-2016 | 07:37 PM
#5688
so is price the issue here?...cause that idea isnt going to fly....
okay lets look at it this way....motor is $150, but you get the extras, basically best stator, bearings, fancy print out and so on....still legal, but with all the bells and whistles...so the company sorts parts to get the best of the best and keeps it legal to give you a 1% motor?...is this correct?...at the same time the company has a regular priced motor like everyone else, around $100....but for the extra $50, you get the goodies?
well if that is true, whats the difference in a racer buying 10 motors and going thur them to get the best stator,bearings ect?....to make a 1% motor for himself?....
the difference is 10 motors cost you around $1000.....even if you sell the rest at cost, you still took the time and equipment to make your own 1% motor....
so kids, I would rather pay $50 extra than all that other to obtain the same goal.
so even a spec or lock time motor, racers are going to buy several to get that "ONE"
and who is to say $100 or $150 should be the limit?...I got beat at the Nationals with a $30 Trackstar motor...so should we have a bottom cap too...lol....
point is, we can not fix this issue without dramatically changing the class...cause like I said....spec everything is the only real solution...cause if you dont...that hot new lipo will be out soon, and dont forget that super sweet esc about to drop....Now What?
okay lets look at it this way....motor is $150, but you get the extras, basically best stator, bearings, fancy print out and so on....still legal, but with all the bells and whistles...so the company sorts parts to get the best of the best and keeps it legal to give you a 1% motor?...is this correct?...at the same time the company has a regular priced motor like everyone else, around $100....but for the extra $50, you get the goodies?
well if that is true, whats the difference in a racer buying 10 motors and going thur them to get the best stator,bearings ect?....to make a 1% motor for himself?....
the difference is 10 motors cost you around $1000.....even if you sell the rest at cost, you still took the time and equipment to make your own 1% motor....
so kids, I would rather pay $50 extra than all that other to obtain the same goal.
so even a spec or lock time motor, racers are going to buy several to get that "ONE"
and who is to say $100 or $150 should be the limit?...I got beat at the Nationals with a $30 Trackstar motor...so should we have a bottom cap too...lol....
point is, we can not fix this issue without dramatically changing the class...cause like I said....spec everything is the only real solution...cause if you dont...that hot new lipo will be out soon, and dont forget that super sweet esc about to drop....Now What?
11-02-2016 | 07:40 PM
#5689
And here is the price limit directly from the ROAR website:
8.5.2 Availability for Member Purchase:
8.5.2.1.1 Product availability is required to no less than three retail outlets prior to publication
on approval list. All documentation must be submitted to ROAR Technical Director
prior to publication on approval list. The manufacturer has to provide the name and
address of a least hobby shops or the like, so that any driver who wishes to obtain
these motors at the time of the approval can do so. No hybrid (mixing of parts from
approved brushless motors) allowed
8.5.2.2 The maximum retail price of a “05” brushless motor shall be $149.00.
8.5.2.3 The maximum retail price of a 1/8th brushless motor shall be $299.00.
8.5.2 Availability for Member Purchase:
8.5.2.1.1 Product availability is required to no less than three retail outlets prior to publication
on approval list. All documentation must be submitted to ROAR Technical Director
prior to publication on approval list. The manufacturer has to provide the name and
address of a least hobby shops or the like, so that any driver who wishes to obtain
these motors at the time of the approval can do so. No hybrid (mixing of parts from
approved brushless motors) allowed
8.5.2.2 The maximum retail price of a “05” brushless motor shall be $149.00.
8.5.2.3 The maximum retail price of a 1/8th brushless motor shall be $299.00.
11-02-2016 | 07:50 PM
#5690
Correct! I've seen it first hand recently and this is going to result in a lot of motors we own from becoming a-main caliber to c-main over the next few months (remember when short stacks dominated full stacks a few seasons ago?).... the motor wars will be heating up again over the winter and spring and it just wont be happening to 21.5T....
11-02-2016 | 07:55 PM
#5691
so is price the issue here?...cause that idea isnt going to fly....
okay lets look at it this way....motor is $150, but you get the extras, basically best stator, bearings, fancy print out and so on....still legal, but with all the bells and whistles...so the company sorts parts to get the best of the best and keeps it legal to give you a 1% motor?...is this correct?...at the same time the company has a regular priced motor like everyone else, around $100....but for the extra $50, you get the goodies?
well if that is true, whats the difference in a racer buying 10 motors and going thur them to get the best stator,bearings ect?....to make a 1% motor for himself?....
the difference is 10 motors cost you around $1000.....even if you sell the rest at cost, you still took the time and equipment to make your own 1% motor....
so kids, I would rather pay $50 extra than all that other to obtain the same goal.
so even a spec or lock time motor, racers are going to buy several to get that "ONE"
and who is to say $100 or $150 should be the limit?...I got beat at the Nationals with a $30 Trackstar motor...so should we have a bottom cap too...lol....
point is, we can not fix this issue without dramatically changing the class...cause like I said....spec everything is the only real solution...cause if you dont...that hot new lipo will be out soon, and dont forget that super sweet esc about to drop....Now What?
okay lets look at it this way....motor is $150, but you get the extras, basically best stator, bearings, fancy print out and so on....still legal, but with all the bells and whistles...so the company sorts parts to get the best of the best and keeps it legal to give you a 1% motor?...is this correct?...at the same time the company has a regular priced motor like everyone else, around $100....but for the extra $50, you get the goodies?
well if that is true, whats the difference in a racer buying 10 motors and going thur them to get the best stator,bearings ect?....to make a 1% motor for himself?....
the difference is 10 motors cost you around $1000.....even if you sell the rest at cost, you still took the time and equipment to make your own 1% motor....
so kids, I would rather pay $50 extra than all that other to obtain the same goal.
so even a spec or lock time motor, racers are going to buy several to get that "ONE"
and who is to say $100 or $150 should be the limit?...I got beat at the Nationals with a $30 Trackstar motor...so should we have a bottom cap too...lol....
point is, we can not fix this issue without dramatically changing the class...cause like I said....spec everything is the only real solution...cause if you dont...that hot new lipo will be out soon, and dont forget that super sweet esc about to drop....Now What?
11-02-2016 | 08:08 PM
#5692
The price cap is currently $150, but manufacturers are charging more than the price cap by offering "tuning options" and getting around the technicality by offering an untuned motor at or below the price cap. Combine that with the recent surge of HP from the new generation that's developing quickly, we're getting to a point where many feel they need a new motor that costs more than the motor cap every couple of months. Part of it is on them, they don't actually need to spend that much money on the tuning options for the top 1%. But part of it is actually based in reality, there is a measurable performance gap between the newer models that have been coming out.
11-02-2016 | 09:56 PM
#5694
Tech Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 903
From: San Antonio, Texas
Sorry guys I've been focused on 25.5 motors lately but as I understand it the cry for a USGT spec motor is coming from the performance of the new design 21.5 (and hotter) motors. Besides being fast what is the main issue with these motors (4 pole, lower IR, etc.)? What prevents us (USGT) from putting forth a spec similar to what was done with the 25.5 motor - is anyone calling for a spec motor there?
RobK the problem with ONE spec motor like the Novak is Novak - it went out of business! The only thing that saved us was all your hard work at ROAR to get a good spec (especially the IR spec) so that many can build a spec motor and we are not dependent on just one OEM. Now IMO the only improvement would be to put a claimer rule in to keep those certified motors on the shelf or in my pocket for $95.
RobK the problem with ONE spec motor like the Novak is Novak - it went out of business! The only thing that saved us was all your hard work at ROAR to get a good spec (especially the IR spec) so that many can build a spec motor and we are not dependent on just one OEM. Now IMO the only improvement would be to put a claimer rule in to keep those certified motors on the shelf or in my pocket for $95.
11-02-2016 | 10:04 PM
#5695
Sorry guys I've been focused on 25.5 motors lately but as I understand it the cry for a USGT spec motor is coming from the performance of the new design 21.5 (and hotter) motors. Besides being fast what is the main issue with these motors (4 pole, lower IR, etc.)? What prevents us (USGT) from putting forth a spec similar to what was done with the 25.5 motor - is anyone calling for a spec motor there?
11-02-2016 | 11:11 PM
#5696
Well spoken, Kevin.
I didn't see anything getting ugly, if you mean the current direction of the thread. We are simply stating our opinions and trying to justify our positions. It seems to be a healthy and cordial discussion to me. So far no one has questioned anyone else's lineage or IQ!
Also, please don't confuse our banter as being negative. The whole reason we are having the discussion is because we love the class, and would like to see it remain great, or get even better.
I didn't see anything getting ugly, if you mean the current direction of the thread. We are simply stating our opinions and trying to justify our positions. It seems to be a healthy and cordial discussion to me. So far no one has questioned anyone else's lineage or IQ!
Also, please don't confuse our banter as being negative. The whole reason we are having the discussion is because we love the class, and would like to see it remain great, or get even better.
11-03-2016 | 07:22 AM
#5698
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,314
From: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Usvta is not going to be able to get all motor manufacturers to agree to anything. We are too small, since 21.5 is not just in the usa for our class. If roar or other national bodies got into it, it might happen. 25.5 was easier since it was totally new at the time.
It might be easier to go to handout motors at events or let tracks pick motors like the locked hobbywing which is less than $50 from what i have seen
It might be easier to go to handout motors at events or let tracks pick motors like the locked hobbywing which is less than $50 from what i have seen
11-03-2016 | 08:14 AM
#5699
TSR, Trinity and others are doing the work for you, and doing it cheaper....
ask yourself how many 21.5 motors you have?.....I have 3....and I just gave them to a friend to go thur them and match up the best parts to give me a good one...just one good one....hummm, same issue huh.....
also you are right RobK......the 25.5 wasn't est. at the time beyond crawlers, and more important other companies DID NOT consider VTA as an investment , thank you again Bob and Charlie
21.5 is out there and alive, and the USGT class is one of the only classes in the USA that's made its mark.....it would be real hard to go backwards....
another option is a 23.5 motor...which company will step up and make it for us
11-03-2016 | 08:34 AM
#5700
Tech Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 858
From: Columbia,Tn.
That, too me, is the best idea. The only problem I see with that is, with the crazy race fees plus an additional motor expense might put some people out.