So did you get to see THE trailer in the previews? THE trailer is of course the one for ROTS

yep, just as good as seeing it online last week hehe

Gordon: That is exactly the problem; if you drive 45 minutes and no one shows up for your class, why should you be entitled to mix it up in a different class just because you want to be different? I'm not saying anything bad about brushless or anything else, these are just the facts of life.

If I show up at SoCal and say I want to race stock, but with a brushless, they will laugh in my face. Same for Trackside, RSJ, and on and on.

And they have a very good reason to.

If I show up at Joe's next LAN party with a hacked up copy of Quake 3 and I say, well no one else has this copy, but I still want to play, so let me in and we'll just not count my kills, he is going to laugh in my face too. Even though my copy may be technically superior, and even though I may not be eligible for the grand prize, it still takes away from the competition.

What entitles me to show up and say that I want to run illegal equipment for ANY reason? I could make a strong argument that lithium polymer cells are superior to NiMH cells, so does that mean they should let me run my LiPoly-powered car against others? It just doesn't make any sense.

If somebody wants to get into racing, they are making a committment to race in the established classes that everybody else is running. It is their choice. You don't like truing motors, and I don't like building shocks, so does that mean I should create a class for cars with no shocks? It just doesn't make any sense.

If MARCCA sticks to its rules and lets any 3 people who show up run a class, then that is 100% absolutely fine. But if only 2 people show up, there is no reason they should be allowed to run with another class. For starters, even if they aren't racing for points, it cheapens the racing for everybody else.

Down the road, I see brushless becoming a viable class, and you won't have the problem of only having one or two people there. But right now, that's not how it is. Dividing an already divided program is not going to help anybody.

As for drifting and such... that's not even racing. MARCCA shouldn't allow it. It just wastes everybody's time... real drifting competitions are judged, not timed. Trying to time a drifting "race" is absolutely ludicrous. If they were trying to do that while I was there, I'd be racing over to Trackside!

I'd let you play Q3 with us, we'd just crank your handicap up. Sweet! Honestly, that's not a valid comparison, because we'd just ghost a regular copy to your drive.

I guess I assumed it is a relaxed enough atmosphere at MARCCA that if I am the only one who shows up with a stock brushless, I can still race without it being a big deal. I'll never forget the guy I saw at Trackside going all psycho on a marshall because HE was off line and couldn't see around the marshall. I don't need this, I'm thinking. That's a little too serious for me, this is supposed to be fun.

I know somebody who raced a 1/12 scale in stock sedan (at MARCCA) because he was the only one there. Was that a big deal? Maybe exceptions are only made for certain people. I don't know.

If nobody pushes brushless, it will never change. If new guys come in and see everybody using brushed, that's what they will buy, an endless spiral of comm turning.

I think we all agree that brushless is coming. I just can't bring myself to go down the other road. I have no attachment to brushed what-so-ever, and I have no delusions about competing at a National or even Regional level, so it is an easy choice for me.

If the rule is, you need three to make a class, then we should try to hold to that. And if a dedicated, dues paying member shows up one week and is the only one with stock brushless 1/12 scale, it should not be a big deal to run with the regular 1/12 scales. It actually seems as if people don't like brushless, like it's personal somehow.

I'm not different because I WANT to be different. Being different is a side-effect my easy acceptance of change. It's much easier to be a herd animal and go along with the crowd. Trail blazing is tough work.

On to my entitlement issues. First, it's basically the same class. Second, what exactly is the problem with running with them (occasionally if need be)? Because it accelerates a little faster off the corner? That upsets the flow of the race? Then we need to get the slow cars off the track too because they upset the flow of the race. And get rid of the fast guys too, nothing upsets me more than Vang flying by me at mach 1.

That's another good thing about the way the truck classes work, the races flow better because, regardless of hardware, it keeps people of similar lap times in the same class.

.I want to race with as little work as possible. I know celt has touted himself as being lazy, but I don't know. If there was a class where there was no tuning, building, fixing and all the cars were identical and always opererated in identical fashion, I'd be all over that like stink on....well you know. I like driving, not wrenching. I mean, check this out, I throw the bottom of cupcakes out because the frosting is better. Why take the bad with the good, when you can just have the good?

And the drifting was more or less just a brief little fun class. I kind of hope it dies out too. Because, as you stated, the proper way to compete in drifting is by judging style, not time around the track. But, again, this is a club, not a buisiness.

And Clegg, I think you should try to get on the board, directors that is, you're already all over the boards around the track.

Brushless would be the only way I would race 12th scale-unless I was getting paid then I may go brushed-but since I'm in it for fun(competitive fun) at a club level(I do not have the time or money to race Big races) I Totally agree with John!
I beleive that by the time we have the capital city carpet challenge there will definatly be a mod 12th scale class.(hopefully sooner.)

Since the track uses pipes, that would be "I think you thouls try to get on the pipe" and really I dont see how crack can help this discussion currently

Bob there could be a Mod class, but whats needed is more people. How do you get more people? start running races that match some of the common rules used around at neighbor tracks in order to attract more people.

Stock sedan and mod sedan are also basically the same classes. By your logic you should run those two together...

Once in a blue moon, of course that's not a major problem. But if the class as a whole doesn't take off, then yes, there should be a stop put to it. For example, the first weekend up at Road Rage they ran the Foam and Rubber sedans together just because there were only 2 foam guys but there were 12 rubber guys. But since then they've gotten further into the season and more guys are returning to indoor. Again, look at the circumstances.

I and others have had issues with this. It sucks when you set a guy up, pass them cleanly, then get run over by the person you just passed because they just ripped it. It absolutely sucks. I got nailed so hard it broke the rear bumper off my XXX-S and broke BOTH rear arms. This happened in a qualifier, and this same person wound up second to last qualifer in the C main, but he was bound and determined to beat me in that one corner...well he beat me..beat the hell out of my car that is...

Going nuts at marshalls isn't cool. Normally if you just say on the stand "Marshal, can you please take a step back" or left or right it isn't an issue. And most marshalls are more than happy to oblidge. But admittedly, things can get a little too serious from time to time at ANY track, not just Trackside.

But you also have to pick your time and battles. The technology doesn't have the wide spread acceptance yet. One thing that's cool is that if you go to a major race to run brushless and don't have one, Novak will loan you one for free. Cool, but there's a down side. If you're not worried about practicing before hand, there's no incentive for someone to buy a brushless....yet.

Gordon, you're heart is in the right place. But I think you're a few years too early...

Thanks for the encouragement, we'll get there.

I wouldnt say a few years, I would say a year or so. with LRP and other more mainstream brushless implementations coming out (because Hacker and the others arent what I would call "mainstream" for car racing use). The scene will pick up.

At this point, its just beating the horse that died a few weeks ago.

As long as I can race on Sunday when I show up, we're cool.

And I though last year, it was about a year off, for MARCCA to accept it, not to say anything about other tracks. It is at least 2 or 3 years off for general acceptance by bigger tracks.

So when you have the mod 1/12 class what will the rules be? Mod brushed, novak 4300,novak 5300,reedy or others like lehner or hacker? Or maybe you'll just wait and outlaw people as you see fit. This is really begining to be a joke,nowonder people continue to think this way about your club, rules, we don't need no stinking rules untill you beet me then i'll get the board to have one that benifits me.

JCTC3,

I can't and won't speak for anyone but myself, but if we run mod 1/12, I would have no problem allowing mod brushless motors run with conventional motors.

Again, this is my opinion. Someone else might have a reason to take issue.

You know if we allow one than we must allow all. We can't just let one person run what they want and then prevent another from doing so. That is why there are rules. I agree with with celt in that if there is a faster motor running with the slower guys then it disrupts the racing. What then if we let one guy run stock brushless then another wants to run mod? Are you going to let that person run mod with the stock class? If so then it is nolonger a stock class. It is an open class. I know that roar has the spec for stock brushless but are they say that it is ok to run stock brushless with stock brushed motor? I'm just saying that if we let one person run what they want the we have to let others run what they want. Where do you draw the line?

If the class is open, for that class anything goes. However, my intentions are good to try to be as stock as possible with the 4300 stock brushless.

My only concern is that somebody with good intentions is going to be discrimitated against on that occasion where there are not enough to run open. The 4300 stock brushless is not an open motor so stop saying how can you run open in stock. How many times do I have to quote the ROAR rules? Right now the Novak 4300 Brushless is the only brushless system I know of that conforms to the the ROAR spec.

Most people here say they love the brushless on one hand then in the same breath they say we don't want them to run with us

Vang why do only faster guys disrupt the racing? Don't slower guys disrupt racing? Or is it only somebody who might be faster than you that disrupts your racing?

All I am fighting for at this point in time is that on the occasion that there are not enough people to run open, that people who have the 4300 stock brushless are allow to occasionally run with the stock guys, ok? Are you all so insecure about having a slightly faster car on the track with you, occasionally?

I'm talking about stock brushless, ok? Stock brushless. Not mod, not open, not 19T, not 13T. Occasionally? OK?

Hopefully we will have enough for open most of the time and you guys can all run at the exactly same pace with all identically power cars. Because, of course, all 27T motors are identical.

Ultimately this will be decided by the MARCCA board. They can decide whether turning people away from a class we are trying to grow is good for the club, it's members or the future.

If you have enough racers for an open class what motors are permited?And vangs coment doesn't hold water because you can run a 27t in mod class now.