113LikesA decent cheap shaft drive car touring car. Where did they all go?
05-18-2022, 09:25 PM
#136
The a700 should be for asphalt only then, or for fairly low traction conditions...No wonder I did not see any on crc black carpet last fall...I did notice my tc4 ft getting better when I stiffened it up with the four chassis pillars: next I will add the center spline....
05-18-2022, 09:30 PM
#137
Which surface does it perform better on ?
05-18-2022, 09:39 PM
#139
I see....Very well then, it works everywhere...I really like the fact that Awesomatix has all the shafties and belties anyone could desire...I stick to shaft for realism...
Last edited by bertrandsv87; 05-18-2022 at 10:06 PM.
05-18-2022, 10:08 PM
#140
Driving a race car is a matter of controlling throttle, brakes, using those to control chassis state into and out of a corner.
When was the last time you heard someone talking about tuning current limiting on their ESC? I've ~never~ seen it discussed on-road.
When was the last time you had to consider controlling a side?
When I drag my cars out on the street, or to a parking lot, push, and oversteer are things.
While we're at it, almost all of the "development" in road cars, is a constant fight for lower, and lower cg. shorter shocks, lower shock towers, lower bulkheads, lower motor positions. This is to deal with higher and higher traction levels. So is the trend towards double a arms, instead of a lower arm and a camber link, as the cornering forces are high enough that .. well.. stiffness is mattering more, and more.
Lower traction levels let you run softer springs. It allows cars to move at speeds that humans can react to. It's easier on equipment. The lower in corner speeds means mistakes are less likely to explode car parts.
Right now, cars are so fast, that braking is really a thing that only happens twice a lap, maybe three times? and you're just waiting for the car to pick up speed. Also, traction is so high, that friction between the drivetrain and the ground "is" braking.
We need less traction. To make more aspects of driving matter, more.
When was the last time you heard someone talking about tuning current limiting on their ESC? I've ~never~ seen it discussed on-road.
When was the last time you had to consider controlling a side?
When I drag my cars out on the street, or to a parking lot, push, and oversteer are things.
While we're at it, almost all of the "development" in road cars, is a constant fight for lower, and lower cg. shorter shocks, lower shock towers, lower bulkheads, lower motor positions. This is to deal with higher and higher traction levels. So is the trend towards double a arms, instead of a lower arm and a camber link, as the cornering forces are high enough that .. well.. stiffness is mattering more, and more.
Lower traction levels let you run softer springs. It allows cars to move at speeds that humans can react to. It's easier on equipment. The lower in corner speeds means mistakes are less likely to explode car parts.
Right now, cars are so fast, that braking is really a thing that only happens twice a lap, maybe three times? and you're just waiting for the car to pick up speed. Also, traction is so high, that friction between the drivetrain and the ground "is" braking.
We need less traction. To make more aspects of driving matter, more.
05-18-2022, 10:21 PM
#141
The "torque steer" is not correct term here. "Torque twist of chassis" is more correct.
FFG eliminates the torque twisting of chassis.
Please check these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJXy6DZWUTk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGthUZePBUg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLtjs0sztk0
FFG eliminates the torque twisting of chassis.
Please check these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJXy6DZWUTk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGthUZePBUg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLtjs0sztk0
Thanks in advance.
05-18-2022, 11:49 PM
#142
Real car chassis twist under engine(longitudinal layout) torque, so I welcome the effect in my Rc shafties and learn to deal with it just like a real car...FFG is still a good option though for those who prefer no chassis twist at all...
05-19-2022, 02:47 AM
#143
Agree on the too much lateral grip thing... modern carpets give too much grip, tires are too sticky...
... and (gonna be provocative here) manufacturers encourage the slower spec classes with lots of enthusiasm, especially in the US, as any fraction of %age that can be squeezed out of the slower motors can actually be put on the ground and give a competitive advantage to the skilled driver, because these categories operate so far away from the grip limit. Meaning selling more gear more often to more people.
Suggestions for reducing grip:
1 - (cheaper) carpets with less grip and/or no tire sauce, the latter will also help racers' health,
2 - limited supply of race tires esp. outdoors,
3 - and (you saw that coming didn't you) allow faster motors (as opposed to slower motors with to-the-moon gearing which go fast but force you to ).
#3 will allow traction to be broken more often as no-one can resist running a lower-wind mill if allowed. This means that a lot of "waiting for the car to pick up speed" will disappear as the more torque at the wheel will bring the cars to the limit of the traction circle more often, so people will have to adjust their throttle finger instead of waiting for the overworked 2*.5T to spool up while heating up.
(putting my flame suit on)
... and (gonna be provocative here) manufacturers encourage the slower spec classes with lots of enthusiasm, especially in the US, as any fraction of %age that can be squeezed out of the slower motors can actually be put on the ground and give a competitive advantage to the skilled driver, because these categories operate so far away from the grip limit. Meaning selling more gear more often to more people.
Suggestions for reducing grip:
1 - (cheaper) carpets with less grip and/or no tire sauce, the latter will also help racers' health,
2 - limited supply of race tires esp. outdoors,
3 - and (you saw that coming didn't you) allow faster motors (as opposed to slower motors with to-the-moon gearing which go fast but force you to ).
#3 will allow traction to be broken more often as no-one can resist running a lower-wind mill if allowed. This means that a lot of "waiting for the car to pick up speed" will disappear as the more torque at the wheel will bring the cars to the limit of the traction circle more often, so people will have to adjust their throttle finger instead of waiting for the overworked 2*.5T to spool up while heating up.
(putting my flame suit on)
05-19-2022, 05:55 AM
#144
Tech Prophet
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Driving a race car is a matter of controlling throttle, brakes, using those to control chassis state into and out of a corner.
When was the last time you heard someone talking about tuning current limiting on their ESC? I've ~never~ seen it discussed on-road.
When was the last time you had to consider controlling a side?
When I drag my cars out on the street, or to a parking lot, push, and oversteer are things.
While we're at it, almost all of the "development" in road cars, is a constant fight for lower, and lower cg. shorter shocks, lower shock towers, lower bulkheads, lower motor positions. This is to deal with higher and higher traction levels. So is the trend towards double a arms, instead of a lower arm and a camber link, as the cornering forces are high enough that .. well.. stiffness is mattering more, and more.
Lower traction levels let you run softer springs. It allows cars to move at speeds that humans can react to. It's easier on equipment. The lower in corner speeds means mistakes are less likely to explode car parts.
Right now, cars are so fast, that braking is really a thing that only happens twice a lap, maybe three times? and you're just waiting for the car to pick up speed. Also, traction is so high, that friction between the drivetrain and the ground "is" braking.
We need less traction. To make more aspects of driving matter, more.
When was the last time you heard someone talking about tuning current limiting on their ESC? I've ~never~ seen it discussed on-road.
When was the last time you had to consider controlling a side?
When I drag my cars out on the street, or to a parking lot, push, and oversteer are things.
While we're at it, almost all of the "development" in road cars, is a constant fight for lower, and lower cg. shorter shocks, lower shock towers, lower bulkheads, lower motor positions. This is to deal with higher and higher traction levels. So is the trend towards double a arms, instead of a lower arm and a camber link, as the cornering forces are high enough that .. well.. stiffness is mattering more, and more.
Lower traction levels let you run softer springs. It allows cars to move at speeds that humans can react to. It's easier on equipment. The lower in corner speeds means mistakes are less likely to explode car parts.
Right now, cars are so fast, that braking is really a thing that only happens twice a lap, maybe three times? and you're just waiting for the car to pick up speed. Also, traction is so high, that friction between the drivetrain and the ground "is" braking.
We need less traction. To make more aspects of driving matter, more.
I fight slides every race at St. Charles. Thunderdome a nice change to not worry about sliding. I am dealing with traction roll in 1/12.
Yes a had issues with traction roll when started at WC. And it seems to be more of issues with VTA then then others classes.
05-20-2022, 04:22 AM
#145
As far as I can tell they seem to be selling for similar prices to the t4 20/21. If the demand went up I could see the prices exceeding the new x4 prices. That being said average racers don't need an X4 over a T420/21. If someone is good enough to notice the the difference between a X4 and a T4 they will still win with a potato.
05-23-2022, 01:45 PM
#146
Tech Addict
05-23-2022, 02:32 PM
#147
Well this car could have been better with super short shocktowers, an open access to the pinion for gear changes, rear gear diff(if it doesn't have it already), and front spool... It also would not hurt to get rid of the high radio box....
05-23-2022, 03:33 PM
#148
Tech Apprentice
Come on, it's 99$, for fun on a parking, yet it includes all these options. Let's be happy for all the kids who can now compete against the Kyosho Fazer MK2
05-23-2022, 03:38 PM
#149
Tech Apprentice
Awesome news MatsNorway thanks for sharing.
Which brings my current list of shaft drive Touring Cars to:
Germany: LRP S10 Blast TC3 ClubRacer (May 2022)
?: LC Racing PTG-2R (May 2022)
Taiwan: Carten T410R
US: HPI RS4 Sport 3 SHAFT (end of life?)
US: Traxxas 4tec 2.0 VXL SHAFT (end of life)
Japan/DE: Yokomo SD Tonisport Ed. (tuning and spares) SHAFT (end of life)
?: MST XXX-R Pro Kit (discontinued)
Japan: Tamiya TB05 PRO (discontinued)
Lithuania: Awesomatix A700 Evo II (discontinued)
LRP S10 Blast TC2 (discontinued)
?: Carisma M40S (discontinued)
?: Redcat Lightning STK (discontinued)
?: Vaterra V100 (discontinued)
(the forum won't let me post links yet cos I'm too new...)
Which brings my current list of shaft drive Touring Cars to:
Germany: LRP S10 Blast TC3 ClubRacer (May 2022)
?: LC Racing PTG-2R (May 2022)
Taiwan: Carten T410R
US: HPI RS4 Sport 3 SHAFT (end of life?)
US: Traxxas 4tec 2.0 VXL SHAFT (end of life)
Japan/DE: Yokomo SD Tonisport Ed. (tuning and spares) SHAFT (end of life)
?: MST XXX-R Pro Kit (discontinued)
Japan: Tamiya TB05 PRO (discontinued)
Lithuania: Awesomatix A700 Evo II (discontinued)
LRP S10 Blast TC2 (discontinued)
?: Carisma M40S (discontinued)
?: Redcat Lightning STK (discontinued)
?: Vaterra V100 (discontinued)
(the forum won't let me post links yet cos I'm too new...)
05-23-2022, 04:53 PM
#150
But I like the spirit of what the car could bring to the Tamiya in the tub class/low budgets.