As the title clearly states, it's time for a change in the RC industry...specifically, to how RC motors are labeled, and marketed. As we all know, RC motors are currently labeled/marketed under their kV rating, or Turn rating...some manufacturers use 'kV', while others use 'Turn', but none (that I'm aware of) currently use both.

I am certain there are countless others who will agree with what I am about to propose...whether, or not, they are "vocal" about it. To anyone working in the RC industry and/or to those who know people working in the RC industry, please, please, please, pass this information along to those who have the ability to actually do something about this.

What I propose is this:

For all RC motors currently labeled/marketed under their 'kV rating', below the KV rating (on the box, and in all printed & online marketing material), in parentheses, the equivalent 'Turn' should also be listed. Likewise, for motors currently labeled/marketed under their 'Turn', the equivalent 'kV rating' should be listed. Additionally, below the equivalent kV/Turn rating, the 'wind' (ie. D, Y, etc) should be listed.

I, like many others, realize that there is not always a direct correlation between kV & Turn, thus it would be impossible to create an "industry standard"...but, it would be incredibly easy for every manufacturer to determine an equivalent number for each of their motors. As replacing motors (especially in RTR vehicles) is extremely common (otherwise, the aftermarket RC motor industry wouldn't even exist), this would greatly help those attempting to determine what motor(s) might best suit their needs. In regards to the Wind information, this can be greatly needed, as the Wind is also needed in determining where to set the timing (something the RC boating industry has been well-aware of for many years). For example, if you took two motors with the same kV rating...one with a 'D' Wind, and the other with a 'Y' Wind...the timing would need to be set differently on each in order for them to operate equivalently.

I'm certain there are probably a large number of people who could care less about having both pieces of information. For example, when it comes to racing, certain 'classes' only care about 'kV', or 'Turn'...but, for the far greater majority of Racers (ie. all the non-racers), having both pieces of information would be of considerable importance.

So, RC motor manufacturers, are you up for this change? It would not increase, in any way, manufacturing costs. Yes, it would take a little time in determining the additional pieces of information for each motor, but that "time" would easily equate to less than five minutes per motor designation. If a company makes a dozen different motors, that equates to one hour of time needed to determine this information. As for the printing on the boxes, that is a simple change that can be done in seconds for each box design, which could easily be applied during the next printing run of said boxes. Having previously worked in an industry where such changes did occasionally take place, I have firsthand experience/knowledge in knowing how incredibly little such a change would cost. Additionally, as this would be a one-time change, said cost (less than a few dollars per motor) to each manufacturer producing motors would be virtually non-existent.

Kv depends on timing (sensor timing or esc timing) and the physical characteristics of the motor construction. So the best way to standardize would be to label the motor by the number and type of winding as that is a physical attribute specific to each motor. That, in a sense, is what we already have as kv is just an approximation of what the motor can do.

There are so many different motors it would be almost impossible to standardize more than we already are. If you have a sensored motor it will have certain characteristics different from a 12 pole sensorless outrunner.

Take a good look, sensorless motors are in KV and sensored motors are in turns because indeed due the timing there is no clear KV value.

I didn't say anything about "creating a standard". As a matter of fact, I felt I was pretty clear in indicating that doing so would probably not even be possible. What I was proposing is that the manufacturers of each motor include the data specific to their particular motor.

For example, a 13.5T motor from Tekin, and a 13.5T motor from Fantom, could easily have different kV ratings...but, it would the incredibly easy for each manufacturer to determine their motor's equivalent kV rating. Likewise, a 3500kV motor from Traxxas, and a 3500kV motor from Castle, could easily have different 'Turns', but each manufacturer would know the actual 'Turn' of their motors, and could easily provide that information to consumers.

All I'm suggesting/recommending is that the manufacturers provide this information. Automobile & motorcycle manufacturers have absolutely no problem providing torque, horsepower, and engine size (in cc or co) information to consumers, so why should RC motor manufacturers be any difference? What if automobile/motorcycle manufacturers were to only provide one or two of these three pieces of information? Manufacturers of RC gas/nitro engines, likewise, have no problem providing this level of information. So, why should the labeling/marketing of electric RC motors be any different?

Not true...there are LOTS of sensored motors listed under kV. Just look at Castle & Hobbywing motors...while some are listed by Turn, the majority of them are listed by kV.

I already told you, the kv given (by hobbywing or whoever) is based on running the motor on a dyno and seeing how many rpm the motor does. If you change the timing while testing, the kv will change, thus the kv given is an approximation of what the motor will do under one condition. Add in manufacturing tolerances and there is no way to say exactly what the kv is unless you literally run your specific motor with your settings. I don't know how to say this any more plainly.

And that's also where the Wind factors in. For example, with a Y Wind, those readings are typically done with timing at 20°. However, with a D Wind, they're typically done at 0°. Plus, not all motors have the timing done on the motor. With some, the timing is ONLY adjusted through the ESC.

I think the concept is good. But I think RC is wrapped up in its own standards like KV and timing and turns and ...
i think if you want a beginner car you should get a 75 watt motor
if you want a stock class something like 150watt
mod is anything above 300 watts.
every motor you buy outside of RC is rated in power
and the rating is accurate.
you can still measure resistance and ... to insure people aren’t cheating.

brushless motors get more powerful every couple of years and the RC industry hasn’t tapped into most of the tech that will continue to make them more powerful in years to come.
measure these motors in something meaningful and you can control the motor wars.

But I suspect only a couple mfgs have a winding process that can hold a tolerance to make a power rating meaningful. I’m guessing
it really just takes a winding machine that has a couple of servos to make the bends and wraps consistent.

Where did you hear that those were the timing settings standard for determining kv?

Some manufactures test to determine kv with the timing in the middle of the adjustment range.

Some manufactures test at the lowest timing setting and the highest timing setting then average the two.

Some manufactures test each motor and set the timing to the sweet spot for each specific motor.

Some manufactures test rotor strength, sensor alignment, stator IR, and many other parameters to group the best parts into a batch of the best motors.

There is no standard test settings and methods for determining the kv number a manufacturer slaps on a motor.

This is a good 3 part write up about rc motor timing and what it does.

In all of your industrial electric motor experience have you ever dealt with an electric motor that has a normal working rpm between 0 and 20,000+ where the motor speed is based off human input and feel for what is happening as opposed to a PLC and feedback from sensors?

The KV rating with sensored motors is just to give an indication of how much the motor will rum. Sensored motors are just simple sensorless motors with a sensor board.

You were already told that sensored motors don't have a KV rating because their timing is adjustable. It is not incredibly easy to pick a KV rating.

I know this is an old thread but I can't help myself from not replying and I can't look at this without cringing. Panther6834 I can see where you are coming from but its not possible. As said above, kv increases as timing goes up. I'm going to focus on roar approved 540 motors since these are the ones typically used in racing. For castle and hw basher motors, it really doesn't matter much and they are listed in kv since there is no adjustable endbell.

All roar approved 540 motors follow the rules here https://www.roarracing.com/downloads...otor_Rules.pdf

All of them are Wye wound. rotor dimensions and stator dimensions are controlled. They are categorized by wind/turns. The kv varies, and torque curves vary. Even if two motors have the same kv at the same degree of timing, the torque will be different, the amp draw could be different.

The companies that typically give spec sheets with their motors (fantom, trinity, r1) are just trying to find ways to sell their motors for more money and get as close to the roar maximum ($150) as possible. If you look at trinity's website, you'll see that their $175 motors no longer have roar approved next to them and so you can't even use them at a roar controlled race. This is also why R1 doesn't sell motors with aligned sensor boards, binned stators, and binned rotors all at the same time (they sell these separately at 149.99). This binning is just so they can sell expensive motors at extremely high margins and also give the very best ones to team drivers.

Also, first of all, adding labels on the box would cost almost nothing (but they wouldn't mean anything) as in the cost would be for someone to go into the design files and edit it. BUT if it did cost a few dollars a motor, that's a tremendous amount when you are talking about tens of thousands of motors (depends on brand).

I don't know I kinda got off track here but there's so much wrong information this thread...