42LikesA Dying Hobby
06-07-2017, 11:15 AM
#196
As stated by many, r/c is not dying as a hobby, just the racing aspect is hitting its cyclical low point at this time. The racing side is getting really expensive for many with chassis, motor, battery, and ESC costs in trying to keep up with the competition. The costs at keeping a track going is escalating upward and with attendance trending downward, not enough revenue is being generated to keep many tracks open. Plus, you are still battling getting and keeping attention to the hobby over X-box and Playstation, but now you have to add the explosion of the more affordable drone industry as another aspect is drawing people away from racing. Also, there are many times there are too many classes with too many rules that hurt the racing aspect in many ways.
Sometimes, you have to KIS (keep it simple) on the racing side in order to keep many doing it. For a while, my local carpet track did a totally spec class (chassis, ESC, motor, battery, and even car gearing) that was a big hit in the early going. You could get into the class with everything needed for under $500 and have a buttload of fun. Sometimes, it was three or four heats with two to three mains in its inception. What killed it: opening up the rules and allowing high-dollar chassis, motors, batteries, ESCs, etc. Now, the class is down to under 8 racers and some race days, no one shows to run.
Racing would be much more fun with egos and attitudes checked at the door before you leave home to go to the track. The racing portion is not only to test your driving skills against others, but you are suppose to have fun doing it. It can still be competitive as well as fun. It is when the fun is replaced with seriousness at the club level that leads to lower track attendance. Club racing is not big event racing where you want the competitive seriousness because you want to win against the big names from other places. Club racing is suppose to be what: FUN!!! When the fun stops, the racing stops!!
Sometimes, you have to KIS (keep it simple) on the racing side in order to keep many doing it. For a while, my local carpet track did a totally spec class (chassis, ESC, motor, battery, and even car gearing) that was a big hit in the early going. You could get into the class with everything needed for under $500 and have a buttload of fun. Sometimes, it was three or four heats with two to three mains in its inception. What killed it: opening up the rules and allowing high-dollar chassis, motors, batteries, ESCs, etc. Now, the class is down to under 8 racers and some race days, no one shows to run.
Racing would be much more fun with egos and attitudes checked at the door before you leave home to go to the track. The racing portion is not only to test your driving skills against others, but you are suppose to have fun doing it. It can still be competitive as well as fun. It is when the fun is replaced with seriousness at the club level that leads to lower track attendance. Club racing is not big event racing where you want the competitive seriousness because you want to win against the big names from other places. Club racing is suppose to be what: FUN!!! When the fun stops, the racing stops!!
06-07-2017, 11:52 AM
#197
The post above about spec racing and cost is spot on!
We run the tamiya eurotruck class at our local parking lot track on sundays. The point of the class is box stock. The only upgrade allowed is ball bearings. You have to run the kit esc and motor, tires, etc. We have already had racers glue sidewalls, swap in plastic tt01 diff internals, add tire inserts, etc. The if you are not cheating, you are not trying mentality is alive and well, and if you don't cheat, simply outspend the next guy.
We also run vta (which is slowly dying because of usgt.) In the original vta class, everyone ran associated tc3 or tc4's, with novak 25.5 motors and a heavy minimum weight (1500g+). Now, I see xray and awesomatix chassis, trinity $150 25.5 motors, and 6000+ battery packs.
As always, the racers are killing the hobby. And if racing really is cyclical, the current down cycle is going into its 10th year.
We run the tamiya eurotruck class at our local parking lot track on sundays. The point of the class is box stock. The only upgrade allowed is ball bearings. You have to run the kit esc and motor, tires, etc. We have already had racers glue sidewalls, swap in plastic tt01 diff internals, add tire inserts, etc. The if you are not cheating, you are not trying mentality is alive and well, and if you don't cheat, simply outspend the next guy.
We also run vta (which is slowly dying because of usgt.) In the original vta class, everyone ran associated tc3 or tc4's, with novak 25.5 motors and a heavy minimum weight (1500g+). Now, I see xray and awesomatix chassis, trinity $150 25.5 motors, and 6000+ battery packs.
As always, the racers are killing the hobby. And if racing really is cyclical, the current down cycle is going into its 10th year.
06-07-2017, 12:00 PM
#198
Racing cost a lot, thats true! But I do not think this is keeping the serious fundriver away. Have you ever seen the upgrades people are doing to their Savage? I trully believe there are more Savages of 2000 dollar and more than RC racing drivers as also 3000+ dollar HPI Baja's and all other cars with aluminium upgrades like Tamiya blue, An aluminium TT01 will not perform better than a stock plastic one... But hey, the blue looks nice and makes the car 4 times expensive.
Fun is indeed another part. I am getting sick and tired to all those wannabee sponsored drivers who do anything to keep themselve in the picture. Also shop owners and distributors who think they can rule the market try to bend the rules in favor of their products or even some cheating options makes racing less fun.
I am also a guy of DIY, making stuff, try something different in stead of buying standard RC products. It is fun and lowers my money spending which I like to share with others who are interested. Saddly some commercial people do not like this because it can hurt their sell ratings and so you hear the bad talking.....
But there is another phenomenon going on. For sure young people are loosing the interest to go technical. Soon we live in a world full of managers, computer wizzkids, media specialists etc and just a few people who can handle a screwdriver.....
Fun is indeed another part. I am getting sick and tired to all those wannabee sponsored drivers who do anything to keep themselve in the picture. Also shop owners and distributors who think they can rule the market try to bend the rules in favor of their products or even some cheating options makes racing less fun.
I am also a guy of DIY, making stuff, try something different in stead of buying standard RC products. It is fun and lowers my money spending which I like to share with others who are interested. Saddly some commercial people do not like this because it can hurt their sell ratings and so you hear the bad talking.....
But there is another phenomenon going on. For sure young people are loosing the interest to go technical. Soon we live in a world full of managers, computer wizzkids, media specialists etc and just a few people who can handle a screwdriver.....
06-07-2017, 12:50 PM
#199
Roelof,
I have a Savage but left it stock. I thought it was stupid to sink that kind of dough into a basher truck. But, there is a market for the non-wise ones that want to sink that kind of money for "bling" parts.
You did mention something that I was trying to avoid. That is the "wannabe sponsored racer". Some that are serious about racing and are seeking sponsorships is fine, but when these people bring this "sponsorship seriousness" to the club level track is why some racers quit racing. I have seen too many times these SSRs (sponsorship serious racer) whine and pout about track layouts they don't like (that others do) and get them changed, whine about a lower skilled driver touching their car on the track (knocking them off their TQ run), have hissy fits about track etiquette and courtesy (when they are sometimes the biggest violators of it), throw tantrums when they feel slighted by other racers, etc., etc. This happens at almost every r/c racetrack know to all. It seems shooting for a sponsorship takes all the fun out of doing this and turns it into a job. These SSRs need to keep that "seriousness edge" when going to the big races but lighten up when they race with their locals; be more of a r/c steward to those getting in, and helping those same people to get up to speed with advice, setup tips, etc. Again, when people stop having fun doing something, they will seek out another avenue for enjoyment.
I have a Savage but left it stock. I thought it was stupid to sink that kind of dough into a basher truck. But, there is a market for the non-wise ones that want to sink that kind of money for "bling" parts.
You did mention something that I was trying to avoid. That is the "wannabe sponsored racer". Some that are serious about racing and are seeking sponsorships is fine, but when these people bring this "sponsorship seriousness" to the club level track is why some racers quit racing. I have seen too many times these SSRs (sponsorship serious racer) whine and pout about track layouts they don't like (that others do) and get them changed, whine about a lower skilled driver touching their car on the track (knocking them off their TQ run), have hissy fits about track etiquette and courtesy (when they are sometimes the biggest violators of it), throw tantrums when they feel slighted by other racers, etc., etc. This happens at almost every r/c racetrack know to all. It seems shooting for a sponsorship takes all the fun out of doing this and turns it into a job. These SSRs need to keep that "seriousness edge" when going to the big races but lighten up when they race with their locals; be more of a r/c steward to those getting in, and helping those same people to get up to speed with advice, setup tips, etc. Again, when people stop having fun doing something, they will seek out another avenue for enjoyment.
06-07-2017, 01:46 PM
#200
Here's my unconventional take on sponsorships and how they hurt the industry. Nothing to do with hobby shop sales.
Sponsorship make racing like a job. If you have to create race reports, are constrained in what items you can run, pushed to buy all the new items, pushed to finish well, pushed to attend more races, pushed to get more people running your brand, etc. It's essentially a job. I enjoy my real job from time to time, but a hobby should be fun, not anything like a job. You shouldn't be pressured into spending more than you can afford and spending loads of time away from home because some team manager was pushing people to attend a certain race.
Sponsorship make racing like a job. If you have to create race reports, are constrained in what items you can run, pushed to buy all the new items, pushed to finish well, pushed to attend more races, pushed to get more people running your brand, etc. It's essentially a job. I enjoy my real job from time to time, but a hobby should be fun, not anything like a job. You shouldn't be pressured into spending more than you can afford and spending loads of time away from home because some team manager was pushing people to attend a certain race.
06-07-2017, 02:55 PM
#201
Rc changes as fast as technology does, someone invest lots of money and a year or two goes by and it's out dated. Another is new rc platforms, this can be a double edge sword, rte seems to fall into this more. A new platform comes out and everyone is excited and goes and buys it, more often then not is not like anything else. A new class and a new set of rules. I've experienced where after a season people have enough and park them or the next new fad comes along. Or after a while as company comes out with something similar, but does not fit into the rules of the original class that started it. It then turns into a second class or the hole thing dies. I have seen lots of styles come and are sitting on the shelf 6 months later. Local tracks need to work together and have the same rules. Not one track has this motor and the next has different.
06-07-2017, 03:40 PM
#202
In the short 2.5 years that I've been into the big-boy RC scene, the B4 buggy went from being the prevalent ride (with it's TLR counter-part) to only so much garbage. The B5M was the hot car for about 2 years and has now been supplanted by the B6/D platform. How long will those cars last?
I just gotta wonder, where did all this whirlwind development come from? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the B4 debut in the early 2000's?
I just gotta wonder, where did all this whirlwind development come from? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the B4 debut in the early 2000's?
06-07-2017, 03:47 PM
#203
By no means is the rc hobby dying. When a company like Traxxas can make 8 figures a year while being a main sponsor for a top fuel drag team that throws away new parts every quarter mile, it solidifies that the general rc car hobby is strong with a great deal of interest. But racing on the other hand is a different story.
In my opinion, the worlds biggest RC car racing association (IFMAR) is also holding the competitive racing industry back. They are the worst when it comes to promoting races. It's like they don't even try. Third party and private company's like rctech and redrc do way more for the marketing and exposure then IFMAR does. At the same time, people put IFMAR on a huge pedestal, so when another organization try's to create a series or general racing organization of their own, they don't seem to be taken serious enough. Their whole racing format is out dated. For example, 1 race determines either a national champion or a world champion......... Anybody can win one race on any given Sunday. Who would want to see a 1 race NASCAR or F1 Championship? It's a joke.
It's not a money issue. There are plenty of people who can afford to race. Its also not an issue if you should spend thousands for your kid to race and wondering if its just a phase or not. You could spend the same amount on any other sport (basketball football etc) and a kid can lose interest just as easily.
Lets take the drone racing league for example. After one year, they land a multi-million dollar sponsorship with Allianz and now they race on a million dollar facility in Dubai where the grand prize is 250K for the winning team...In a single year, drone racing BY ITSELF by no means has surpassed RC car racing. Someone(s) pushed to make the DRL what it is in an extremely short time and now is considered a sport on ESPN. Every successful sports organization pushes and promotes their sport. IFMAR is doing nothing at all when it comes to promoting competitive racing.
In my opinion, the worlds biggest RC car racing association (IFMAR) is also holding the competitive racing industry back. They are the worst when it comes to promoting races. It's like they don't even try. Third party and private company's like rctech and redrc do way more for the marketing and exposure then IFMAR does. At the same time, people put IFMAR on a huge pedestal, so when another organization try's to create a series or general racing organization of their own, they don't seem to be taken serious enough. Their whole racing format is out dated. For example, 1 race determines either a national champion or a world champion......... Anybody can win one race on any given Sunday. Who would want to see a 1 race NASCAR or F1 Championship? It's a joke.
It's not a money issue. There are plenty of people who can afford to race. Its also not an issue if you should spend thousands for your kid to race and wondering if its just a phase or not. You could spend the same amount on any other sport (basketball football etc) and a kid can lose interest just as easily.
Lets take the drone racing league for example. After one year, they land a multi-million dollar sponsorship with Allianz and now they race on a million dollar facility in Dubai where the grand prize is 250K for the winning team...In a single year, drone racing BY ITSELF by no means has surpassed RC car racing. Someone(s) pushed to make the DRL what it is in an extremely short time and now is considered a sport on ESPN. Every successful sports organization pushes and promotes their sport. IFMAR is doing nothing at all when it comes to promoting competitive racing.
06-07-2017, 04:14 PM
#204
I don't think the hobby is dying ether but I do think the number of racers is going down, the same thing is also happening in rc boating. I remember a few years ago there was so many places to race around here, and there where good crowds. I could have raced everyday if I really wanted to. Now there is one track left, simple seems to be better now a days.
06-07-2017, 10:45 PM
#205
Sponsored or supported drivers in the lower classes is done to get the title there as well, many titles means a winning and so a selling product. I have seen it happen many times.
06-08-2017, 05:48 AM
#206
Vince, Traxxas figured out a long time ago there was no money in RC racing. They understood it was all about promotion and catering to the impulse buyer. Getting their name out there and selling product just like you see at the track to the impulse buyer is how they're making money.
Also, it's not up to IFMAR or ROAR to promote RC racing. They're both rules organizations run by volunteers. There's no profit motive for them, and all you have to do is look at the threads blaming ROAR for the weather.
It's up to manufacturers to promote racing. They're the ones with the clout to bring racing up from where it is. Unfortunately there's little return on investment for this. Tamiya started their own racing series, and even built a track in California. Even they had to discontinue their in house racing program.
There's no easy answer. We just need to keep plugging the racing we have, and not blame everyone else because it makes us feel good.
Also, it's not up to IFMAR or ROAR to promote RC racing. They're both rules organizations run by volunteers. There's no profit motive for them, and all you have to do is look at the threads blaming ROAR for the weather.
It's up to manufacturers to promote racing. They're the ones with the clout to bring racing up from where it is. Unfortunately there's little return on investment for this. Tamiya started their own racing series, and even built a track in California. Even they had to discontinue their in house racing program.
There's no easy answer. We just need to keep plugging the racing we have, and not blame everyone else because it makes us feel good.
06-08-2017, 08:06 AM
#207
It is wrong to say that the manufacturers need to promote RC racing, then you will end up in brand competitions like the Tamiya and Kyosho cup. Organisations like the ROAR, EFRA and IFMAR will be ruled out.
Thats why these organisations need to invest time and money to promote RC racing. The EFRA has as media partner RCracing.tv but that is promoting racing among excisting RC racers. They need to do more like be there on international racing fairs. Do not show the toys but the technical part of RC racing which could be taken more seriously on such fairs than showing some driving cars. Also show this as a cheaper alternitive for those who can not afford the real thing and also as an option for people who are physical not able to race real rars.
Thats why these organisations need to invest time and money to promote RC racing. The EFRA has as media partner RCracing.tv but that is promoting racing among excisting RC racers. They need to do more like be there on international racing fairs. Do not show the toys but the technical part of RC racing which could be taken more seriously on such fairs than showing some driving cars. Also show this as a cheaper alternitive for those who can not afford the real thing and also as an option for people who are physical not able to race real rars.
06-08-2017, 08:42 AM
#208
But where do they get the time and money?
All of the RC organizations are run by volunteers. That means they're doing it in their spare time. That also means for most the majority of their time is spent making a living so they can afford RC racing. Where are they going to get the extra time to do promotion?
Most of the money ROAR gets goes toward keeping the insurance up. ROAR fights a losing battle getting people to join. Really only the nitro on road racers need ROAR for the insurance. Everyone else doesn't need to join ROAR unless they want to run a ROAR event, and that's usually a turn off for ROAR events.
And thanks to one motor manufacturer who shall not be named, ROAR must now submit new motors for testing to an independent lab, which costs a lot of money (unless the motor guys pay for it themselves, I'm not sure).
Yea, in a perfect world, it would be the organizations doing the promotion. We live in a far from perfect world, and the organizations simply can't do it.
All of the RC organizations are run by volunteers. That means they're doing it in their spare time. That also means for most the majority of their time is spent making a living so they can afford RC racing. Where are they going to get the extra time to do promotion?
Most of the money ROAR gets goes toward keeping the insurance up. ROAR fights a losing battle getting people to join. Really only the nitro on road racers need ROAR for the insurance. Everyone else doesn't need to join ROAR unless they want to run a ROAR event, and that's usually a turn off for ROAR events.
And thanks to one motor manufacturer who shall not be named, ROAR must now submit new motors for testing to an independent lab, which costs a lot of money (unless the motor guys pay for it themselves, I'm not sure).
Yea, in a perfect world, it would be the organizations doing the promotion. We live in a far from perfect world, and the organizations simply can't do it.
06-08-2017, 09:31 AM
#209
Turnigy has or had an Outlaw motor branding awhile back and I'm guessing it was a genius marketing move, when that particular type of motor couldn't get ROAR-approved. I'm speculating, but I think it's a good guess.
For racing to survive, it's starts with tracks that are able to adapt to the ever-changing tastes of racers. You need to be indoors and you need to cater to on-road, off-road and rock crawling. And you gotta have races daily, you need the track to pay for itself.
How you do all that, I dunno. It starts with an RC community, I guess, and how you foster new members into that community is beyond me. I guess you need a big sign saying "come on inside!"
06-08-2017, 10:47 AM
#210
I can not tell for the ROAR but a few years ago I have seen the financial status of the EFRA and I can tell you there is enough for such PR actions. I trully believe you will find many potential RC racers among the full scal racing fans.
On the other hand I think these organisations have no future. Looking how populair the ENS/ETS races are compared with the EFRA European championships. To go to an EC you need to have a club mebership + national licence + EFRA licence and up above a high fee to get a starting place. Thats almost 300 euro.
Going to an ENS/ETS is just 60 euro (with both on top of that there is the costs of the tires) and most important: it does not require mandatory memberships and licences.
On the other hand I think these organisations have no future. Looking how populair the ENS/ETS races are compared with the EFRA European championships. To go to an EC you need to have a club mebership + national licence + EFRA licence and up above a high fee to get a starting place. Thats almost 300 euro.
Going to an ENS/ETS is just 60 euro (with both on top of that there is the costs of the tires) and most important: it does not require mandatory memberships and licences.