skife

It's set to expire on February 14th, 2023.
what does this mean for transponders?
Are we going to get some reasonably priced transponders now?
Cheaper timing systems?

Roelof

Which patent? the old AMB20 , the AMB RC2 or the latest RC4?
AMB has set everything to the RC4 system so if something older expires I think they do not care. And you forget that patents can also be extended.....

Beside that all, patents did not stop other companies to build transponders compatible up to RC3.

And then, I would hate if I go to a race and my official transponder is disturbed by some clone thing that is using my transponder ID.

And what is wrong about the price? Racers can spend many thousands of dollars a year on RC racing but a 100 dollar transponder is too much? A small device which can be used for many years and so the costs per year is not more than a lunch at McDonalds.

gigaplex

iTrader: (2)

The cost of a transponder when you're running high end stuff is trivial. If you're a beginner running something like a Tamiya Euro truck or Kyosho Fazer, it's something like 1/3 the cost of the car. And if you're a club, the decoders are very expensive, and hosting club transponders is harder than it used to be since they moved away from the battery powered club transponders.

Roelof

For a part you are right, but which beginner with a low budget does directly start with racing? Maby clublevel or something like the Tamiya cup but then a high chance such organisations have a few loan transponders.

billdelong

iTrader: (33)

MRT has only cloned 20 numbers which can be cycled to prevent overlap and these are numbers they purchased which prevent any risk of cloning a number that someone else may have purchased from MyLaps


In the past 13 years I've been racing with MRT, there was only 1 race event where I had an overlap with another racer and I needed to cycle to the next number on the list of 20 numbers to switch, never had to cycle the number since.

Roelof

True, but there is also another guy I believe somewhere in east Europe who is just putting numbers in is product. Beside that, when everyone can create transponder w/o any licence, what about that "unique" number? The chance that you will face someone on a race with a same ID is very small, but the chance someone with another brand transponder did register it on Mylaps is much bigger.

billdelong

iTrader: (33)

Well in MRT's case, they only risk issue if there are more than 20 drivers running MRT at the same time... I have to imagine other clones may follow similar practice. Most big race events limit around 15 drivers max per race so the 20 unique number limit isn't an issue provided folks know how to toggle between the numbers, ha!

I personally like having cloned numbers which makes it easy to register the same number for multiple classes and if you have a spare buggy, you can quickly swap out cars in a pinch without having to swap the PTX

Roelof

I was not talking about PTX. I know they bought them selve 20 (and maybe more) transponders so they are working a bit legal by using only those numbers and cloning transponders only with the prove that the customer owns the original and so not messing with Mylaps with other numbers.

But when the patent has expired, anyone can make transponders and sell them commercial. But how are the ID's arranged? If it is done right then only other manufacturers can ask a list of numbers from Mylaps to use in their transponders to be sure no double numbers are around. And how can mylaps prevent that non mylaps transponders are not registerd on the Mylaps/speedhyves servers? People are forgetting that that the free registration and all the free service with it is actually payed with purchasing an official mylaps transponder.

billdelong

iTrader: (33)

Not sure I agree with this statement... I believe the tracks are paying for the service to host their race results on LiveRC, otherwise it would be double-dipping and unethical based on your statement.

Not sure a PTX should be associated with a specific individual either, very common for people to sell their PTX and/or loan/rent their car/PTX to other drivers all the time... way too messy IMO

gigaplex

iTrader: (2)

LiveRC is quite different to Speedhive. Money paid to LiveRC doesn't go to MyLaps. Laps recorded via LiveRC are segregated per track. Speedhive (owned and run by MyLaps) will allow you to register your transponder number and see all your laps across all tracks. That won't work well if a transponder is duplicated.

If you want to talk about double dipping... LiveRC charges tracks to host the video streams. Then charges users to view said streams. I run my local track and can't access the videos I personally uploaded without paying extra.

Roelof

Most race results outside the US are listed at MyRCM but Speedhyves can store every lap you have driven, also practise laps.

MarkBrown

iTrader: (9)

It is not possible for a "guy somewhere in east Europe" to just make up a number and call it a transponder ID and have it be recognized by an AMB decoder. That's because your transponder does not just transmit the transponder ID when it detects the decoder loop. It sends a much longer number (call it the expanded transponder ID) that's a function (in the mathematical sense) of the transponder ID. The AMB decoder will convert an expanded transponder ID into a transponder ID, but will reject all other numbers. That is why you must send your AMBrc transponder to MRT for cloning: MRT powers up your transponder, places it in range of a decoder, reads the expanded transponder ID using a radio receiver, and writes this ID into flash memory on your clone.

The function that maps transponder IDs to expanded transponder IDs, and the inverse function that's in the decoder, are both AMB trade secrets. Patent expiration is irrelevant to trade secret protection.

A sophisticated person could open up the decoder box, read out the computer code within, and determine the inverse function. But most likely AMB, also being sophisticated, has chosen the function to be difficult to compute from the inverse.

CraigMBA

iTrader: (22)

My track got an upgraded box from AMB, and it is not backwards compatible with the OG amb transponders.

Which is a bummer if you had multiple older transponders like I do, but it is what it is.