New 1/8th 4WD basic class ???!!!
 

Hi, I want to post some pictures of my project I started in Austria: Absolutely minimized rigide cars - one chassis with either nitro engine or brushless motor - but 4wd.

Many other people did drive my cars and: absolute easy to drive and a lot of fun! :):):)

I think this is a chance for beginners, youth and all who dont care to maintain the suspensioned cars: races with free choice of motor / engine (power needs to be limited, of course to give equal chances).

Isnt this an idea and worth for further discussion?

Or have a look at: fb.com/buriracer

Oh god... The endless stream of new classes

TomAT,

The idea is good and could work in your area. However, there will always be detractors just like you have seen with post #2 to your thread. The main thing is to build the class and rules and stick to them. The first time you deviate from the rules one iota, the class is done. If you do have to make changes to the rules, get a general agreement to any changes from the racers that are racing and supporting the class regularly, not the fly-by-night racers that are looking to mold the class to what they want, then once the train wreck has happened, they walk away from the class while leaving you to clean up the rubble.

I like your car a lot yet, it reminds me of the Kyosho Fantom 20 4wd of the early 80s.

This concept exists in the Motonica P8F and the prototype BP 4wd pan car (they used to develope their upcoming suspension car). I think your best bet is to take it to as many tracks and run it, see what the racers think.

As stated previously, rules should be established that need to be adhered to. No evolution of rules. Look at the rc F1 of the 90s we all had to run silver can 540 motors, now the class is nuts - too many different motor/esc/battery classes, widths etc.

Excellent idea !! I hope it catches on!! How much are you going to be selling the kits???

Thanks for your response! Its fine to get pros and cons!

In the moment I check all the possibilities to organize and sell my rigide 4wds in a first lot of 25 up to 50 kits in electric version and 20 up to 30 in nitro version. As written before, the cars shall be equal in lap- and runtimes to realize open races with duration of approx. 8 minutes.

All in all there shall be one basic chassis with either electric or nitro upgrade possibility. And, especially for beginners a RTR version of each electric and nitro. For this my target price level is below 400 euros (approx 500U$). My main interest is to reach the youth and beginners who dont care (or dont have the expirience) to adjust setups or refill the absorbers but just want to have the simple fun. Thats the reason to design the cars as minimized as possible (for example the rear axle is a solid tube, the main gear and all the other parts can be put together without tools).

As I am working as a teacher in a technical highschool, I dont have the resources to produce by myself, nor I have the money to prepay the whole first lot! For this I check to find a cooperation with a model cars company or to organize all with a web-startup project (like kickstarter).

Like it a lot, don't get discouraged. If you have a following some major manufacturer will pick up and start selling some kits! I noticed foam tires, they might be a little overwhelming for beginners (cost is a big issue for beginners I think) so what about rubber tires? Also I would ditch the nitro option because of complex linkages. Its easier to maintain shocks than the nitro stuff for newbies.

Motonica has a flat chassis 4wd

Yes, Motonica and also BP have a classic 4wd and they didnt sell more than 2 kits...
The reason: these cars are too close to the suspensioned ones with 3 belts. Also the price is by far too high.

My idea is to find back to the minimum of parts, maintenance and costs - the durability and performance of these simple cars is not bad.

I think the lack of supporting classes is the reason of less populairity.

some more pictures
 

First my V3 with a divided rear axle (to get toe and camber on the rear) after a race with Mugen, Serpent ....
It is about 1.5 to 2.0 sec slower laptimes than the tops - without 2-speed and with a 5-port OPS engine and fuel stops after 7.5 minutes.

Second the electric version with a smaller 1680W / 2300KV motor and 120A esc.
Enough power to have a lot of fun. Top speed on the straight for the MORAC-Graz track checked with radar gun: 97 km/h

SO SO true.


What bodies are you going with? that may be a way to get more exposure maybe go with something more realistic looking. DAytona prototype, scale LM (962's) I am sucker for scale looking cars. AS said before you gotta stick to your guns and roll with it, try and get some exhibition runs at some national events and let the top drivers race against each other for bragging rights. IMO foam tires are cheap and make the driving experience much easier. Handout tires with no truing allowed may help with that. I have the same dream but would like a new gen F1 replica class!

As far as production goes i can help with some things I have my own CNC machines.

Coming soon: BURI-Racers 1/8

One absolutely simple basic chassis with upgrade options for electric or nitro!

The engineering is finished and the production of the first lot starts now.

The rollout will be at the Race of Champions, April 24-26th 2015, at the Stöhr-Ring in Austria!

Tom,

That looks great, will most of the parts come from in house? You are close to SMP, as such I am curious if Osvaldo may be able to offer you any assitance or insight. Will you offer the Nitro and Brushless parts all in one kit?

..................Wow !! That looks great , how much will you be selling them for??

Exactly... Look at electric... Too many classes diluting the few guys that stay with the hobby....a good cheap class like electric f1 gets started then the money war starts...then guys move on....we need more pan 1/8 cars to choose from...look at 1/8 nitro buggy...tons of racers with tons of chassis to choose from....

cost on the electric chassis?

BURI-Racers
 

Hi, thanks for your interest.

We are discussing the first lot size, so the final prices are not fixed yet. Look at the attached picture with the target prices.

The difference between electric and nitro version is an argument to offer each version sperately.
The electric version is absolute minimized! I think especially this version will be very interesting compared to the coming up suspensioned electric cars. Much cheaper and the speed is not that bad!

Many parts are standard or will come from established manufacturers.

not bad on price for roller

As someone who has never raced a On-Road nitro car, this is much more appealing to me than the 2wd pan cars and the GT8s. If there was enough interest to race them in my area I would get one.

..........And if you are a basher, and all you have to run on is a untreated parking lot the 4wd car is going to have more grip and may handle better than a 2wd.

I think it would be hard to find a smooth enough surface to bash on for a suspension-less car.

I will say that (in my opinion which doesn't mean much) I think the car should be 1/4 - 1/3 the cost a 1:8 scale car in order for it to take off.

You may have to look around but you can find parking lot surfaces that are smooth enough for a pan car to run on.

I see you are clearly having fun with this scratch build project.

For bashers you should not build a car with carbon fiber front end. also, with the 2WD classic class doing well it is in my opinion counter productive to further fracture the 1/8th category. Its already small enough.

As for the person interested in this class but not in 2WD pan: Im not sure why you would be against 2wd Pan racing if you have not tried it? How did you form a negative opinion of the class having not raced it?

Several US machinists have done similar projects proposing to launch a basic 1/8 platform at a great price. These projects have not materialized. In reality, the 2WD (and 4wd) pan cars made by RC manufacturers are very simple and the pricing structure is already apparent. They are in full production and the prices indicate actual, real world production costs. And I disagree that the existing 4wd pan cars are too similar to full 1/8th cars--they are very similar to your car.

To make a durable basher car I assure you that molded plastic parts are needed for durability, requiring tooling of 10-20K for injection molds. Plastic front end is the way to go. Carbon fiber front end for beginners will be a disaster, and the parts cost per CF front pieces will be $$$$

I would love to see more support for the class many folks have been working to grow for many years now, the current 2WD Classic Pan Class.

Given that TomAT is in Europe, where I too am originally from, there is more of a do it yourself attitude towards R/C. I remember when older racers would come to the track (AMSC Augsburg) and run their older chassis cars alongside newer versions - all of which had been heavily modified by their older owners. Look at what the guys did with the awesome 2wd Classic Contact car (which had made it to 4 differect versions C300-C320) and all the numerous scratch builds and resurrected vintage cars in France and Italy. The guys go to run their car, and most of all enjoy the camaraderie, heck most don't run in sanctioned events, but rather club racing. The days of seeing scratch built cars / modified cars in the US are too few - which is a shame if you ask me. In Japan you still have guys running 4wd Fantoms alongside old Deltas and RC500's. As such this car may not be something for the US Crowd, but some of the Euro Crowd are more receptive to this car, even if they were to run it as a 2wd pan car, given its suggested price. The P8F may me gone - but I still have mine and love it!

Also if Tom were to take this to a track the guys running 1:8 4wd suspension 2spd cars would not give him much hassle and more than likely would let him run alongside them no problem. Which I don't think would happen here in the US. I would purchase one - I think it would be a great (4wd I.C.) learner for my son.

I do also understand its not everyone’s cup of Tea, yet I commend him for it and wish him the best in his endeavour.

If you want 1/8 scale onroad racing to grow you are going to have to bring back the grass roots...... parking lot racing first. And parking lot racing would have room for 2wd pan & 4wd pan cars.

Nitro off-road racing is my true love but, I like to dabble in other racing too. On road is certainly a lot of fun and i have enjoyed the few events i have been too. The pan car class was appealing to me because I wanted something low maintenance I could go race with. I went to a Midwest Nitro Series race and watched them and was not impressed. To be honest though I am not a fan of 2 wheel drive cars on Off-Road either. I will race them here and there but prefer a 4wd car. After watching some video of this concept car on the track It looks like it would be more appealing to me. I am not trying to bring down what your guys are trying to do with the 2wd pan cars. I hope the class grows and I know people enjoy it. Heck might even pick one up for this summer.

I like the looks of this; if you can keep the price down

He said the nitro roller will be about 230 Euro which is abotu $260 US. That is very reasonable.

nice car Tom,i took 5 day to build my firt kit.

I would be interested in one of the basic electric versions

yep me too. what set-ups are you running? gearing? 6s (:nod:)?

Hi, thanks a lot for the discussion and all your pros and cons!

@ the argument not to divide 1/8th into a new class and let the pan cars in 2wd: I already have a Mantua Intrepid MC and did run several races even in Italy. And I had some long discussions with Massimo Poldi (Mantua Model). I agree, 2wd pans are very close to low costs and maintenance time. But - 4wd – it is definitely easier to drive and it is easier to run together with suspensioned 4wds (I did race with the 2wd Intrepid – but the driving style is too different – the faster 4wd drivers had no real fun with me :).

At all: the main chance of my project will be the electric version - it is the absolute minimized entrance to 1/8 track. Compared with the upcoming Serpent 977e / Shepherd / Capricorn (set price roller-motor-esc-accu >1000€ - they are top, no doubt) the costs will be 1/3 and the speed not that slow and it is a lot of fun! Motor-esc-accu dont need to be the top ones, so I use: 120A esc, 2300KV motor with 4s Lipo (look at HobbyKings prices). Maybe like a limited stock class?

Many potential drivers - expirienced or not - would like to have a try in 1/8 track (for me its the greatest and ideal sized class) but dont want to invest that much money or maintenance time. I think it is a chance to find new drivers - not to absorb them from established classes. A later change to nitro or faster, suspensioned classes will be an additional profit for 1/8.

@ durability: Last year many different drivers did test my prototypes – from 8 year young beginners up to the Austrian champion in 1/8 track. Ok - I never tried on a parking lot. The front carbon suspension parts never broke. The only spare part I sometimes had to change was the 60t main gear (web shop price 3€).

Some news:
I already started the production of a pre seria in cooperation with a company supplying automotive industries. So the order, sales and logistic process will be in absolutely professional hands. I made aggrements with established rc car companies to supply us with nearly standard parts, like front knuckles, gears,pulleys... So the easy availability of spares will be guaranteed.
The rollout of this first lot will be April 26th at the Race of Champions of the morac-graz.at and we plan to run our separate class with both electro and nitro cars. I want to make a documentation and keep you informed. The second lot will be prepared to be ready for delivery in mid of July.

best regards, Tom

i am a hardcore offroad racer that used to race suspension 1/8th onroad awhile back. this chassis would be great to run and offset the maintenance of running two offroad classes each week. my birthday is around the release :)

Hi strodedawg, that sound good! It would be a great pleasure and I would try to add a little birthday cake from Austria!! ;) :nod: ;)

hahaha cool can't wait for it

any production pictures of the final product. would like to see that to get my fix

Hi, sorry for the late response. I was on holidays...

The production is in progress, the last parts will arrive in the coming week and next weekend we can finish our 12 cars in the electric version!

Here some pics from the cnc milling of the carbon chassis plate. Its a nice machine with a powerful high speed spindle!

The rollout will be on April 25th! I will upload further pictures.

Most of the carbon parts are finished!

Coming soon BURI Racers: rollout on April 25th

All parts did arrive. Lets start the final assembly of the 12 cars! „smile“-Emoticon