Crank Timing vs. Port Timing
#16
Thread Starter
Tech Adept
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 148
By the way, this is how I do it, others do other things.....
On this page you can see some stock and modded engines to see what are the differences,
http://www.first-racing.eu/html/steuerzeiten.html[/QUOTE]
Roelof:
That link is also in Dutch, but I can understand it though. The OS TZ-18 has an additional 17 degrees of timing when modded?!! Stock (204) and Modded (221). That's a nice increase in duration. Where are you cutting this particular crank, (opening, closing or both) and how do they run after your modifications?
On this page you can see some stock and modded engines to see what are the differences,
http://www.first-racing.eu/html/steuerzeiten.html[/QUOTE]
Roelof:
That link is also in Dutch, but I can understand it though. The OS TZ-18 has an additional 17 degrees of timing when modded?!! Stock (204) and Modded (221). That's a nice increase in duration. Where are you cutting this particular crank, (opening, closing or both) and how do they run after your modifications?
#17
It is German, you can use Google language tools to translate a site:
http://translate.google.com/translat...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8
http://translate.google.com/translat...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8
#18
Thread Starter
Tech Adept
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 148
It is German, you can use Google language tools to translate a site:
http://translate.google.com/translat...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8
http://translate.google.com/translat...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8
#19
That is not my site, that is a German company doing pinching, mods, coating and other stuff mostly offroad based.
Some of my projecs can be found here:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/tooms/
(also some onroad timings)
Some of my projecs can be found here:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/tooms/
(also some onroad timings)
#20
Thread Starter
Tech Adept
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 148
That is not my site, that is a German company doing pinching, mods, coating and other stuff mostly offroad based.
Some of my projecs can be found here:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/tooms/
(also some onroad timings)
Some of my projecs can be found here:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/tooms/
(also some onroad timings)
#21
For the sleeve I use this:
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Quality-20.../dp/B000MOI9G6
And I must say the Dremel wall tile cutter is also an awesome tool for the sleeve:
http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessor...aspx?pid=TR562
For the crankshaft I use simple grinding stones for a Dremel tool.
For raising the ports you can also try to modify an headshim so it will fit over the sleeve. When placed under the upper edge of the sleeve you will raise all the ports. But what you add to raise the sleeve must be taken away from the head to be sure the combustion chamber will stay at the same height.
This is done a lot, for some brands they are even available:
http://www.capricornrc.com/capricorn...d_product=1320
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Quality-20.../dp/B000MOI9G6
And I must say the Dremel wall tile cutter is also an awesome tool for the sleeve:
http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessor...aspx?pid=TR562
For the crankshaft I use simple grinding stones for a Dremel tool.
For raising the ports you can also try to modify an headshim so it will fit over the sleeve. When placed under the upper edge of the sleeve you will raise all the ports. But what you add to raise the sleeve must be taken away from the head to be sure the combustion chamber will stay at the same height.
This is done a lot, for some brands they are even available:
http://www.capricornrc.com/capricorn...d_product=1320
#22
For the most part, there are two types of 2 stroke engines... reed valve, and rotory valve. Our little nitro engines are rotory valve.
These engines have a two stage intake tract. First stage, piston is on its way up transfer ports are closed, vacuum is created in the crankcase. Then the rotory valve opens (crank window)... and the fuel mix is drawn into the crankcase.
Second stage. Rotory valve closes (crank window), piston is on its way down.. pressure builds in the crankcase, the transfer ports open.. and the mix is pushed up into the cylinder.
This is all happening at extreme speed ... in these little engines.
If you get crazy grinding on that crank window... that pressure thats building in the crankcase will take the path of least resistance... and blow back out the carb... instead of filling the cylinder.
These engines have a two stage intake tract. First stage, piston is on its way up transfer ports are closed, vacuum is created in the crankcase. Then the rotory valve opens (crank window)... and the fuel mix is drawn into the crankcase.
Second stage. Rotory valve closes (crank window), piston is on its way down.. pressure builds in the crankcase, the transfer ports open.. and the mix is pushed up into the cylinder.
This is all happening at extreme speed ... in these little engines.
If you get crazy grinding on that crank window... that pressure thats building in the crankcase will take the path of least resistance... and blow back out the carb... instead of filling the cylinder.
#23
Wow! Damn good information. Thanks, and with that information I'm sure I can improve on what I have been doing to these little engines. I have a question though; I notice that most of the top engine modifiers are putting this "red putty" (or something) in the crankshaft to better distribute fuel into the crankcase. How can I do that and what material are they using? Thanks.
Tuned cranks are drilled hollow to save weight.
There are engines that have that ramp simply milled into the steel.
So, first you have to drill the crank on a lathe with a damn good HSS drill. (cranks are usually hardened)
Then you find some Aerexon Motorsil D (or something similar), fill the hole and fix the crank in the correct position to let it level and dry for at least 24 hours.
I have seen someone to pour silicon into a crank that was not drilled. You only get a thin layer of silicon in their which will not hold, so don't try that.
It wouldn't improve performance anyways.
Hope this helps.
#24
Thread Starter
Tech Adept
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 148
The red silicon filling is mainly there to fill the bore of a drilled out crank.
Tuned cranks are drilled hollow to save weight.
There are engines that have that ramp simply milled into the steel.
So, first you have to drill the crank on a lathe with a damn good HSS drill. (cranks are usually hardened)
Then you find some Aerexon Motorsil D (or something similar), fill the hole and fix the crank in the correct position to let it level and dry for at least 24 hours.
I have seen someone to pour silicon into a crank that was not drilled. You only get a thin layer of silicon in their which will not hold, so don't try that.
It wouldn't improve performance anyways.
Hope this helps.
Tuned cranks are drilled hollow to save weight.
There are engines that have that ramp simply milled into the steel.
So, first you have to drill the crank on a lathe with a damn good HSS drill. (cranks are usually hardened)
Then you find some Aerexon Motorsil D (or something similar), fill the hole and fix the crank in the correct position to let it level and dry for at least 24 hours.
I have seen someone to pour silicon into a crank that was not drilled. You only get a thin layer of silicon in their which will not hold, so don't try that.
It wouldn't improve performance anyways.
Hope this helps.
#25
Thread Starter
Tech Adept
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 148
For the most part, there are two types of 2 stroke engines... reed valve, and rotory valve. Our little nitro engines are rotory valve.
These engines have a two stage intake tract. First stage, piston is on its way up transfer ports are closed, vacuum is created in the crankcase. Then the rotory valve opens (crank window)... and the fuel mix is drawn into the crankcase.
Second stage. Rotory valve closes (crank window), piston is on its way down.. pressure builds in the crankcase, the transfer ports open.. and the mix is pushed up into the cylinder.
This is all happening at extreme speed ... in these little engines.
If you get crazy grinding on that crank window... that pressure thats building in the crankcase will take the path of least resistance... and blow back out the carb... instead of filling the cylinder.
These engines have a two stage intake tract. First stage, piston is on its way up transfer ports are closed, vacuum is created in the crankcase. Then the rotory valve opens (crank window)... and the fuel mix is drawn into the crankcase.
Second stage. Rotory valve closes (crank window), piston is on its way down.. pressure builds in the crankcase, the transfer ports open.. and the mix is pushed up into the cylinder.
This is all happening at extreme speed ... in these little engines.
If you get crazy grinding on that crank window... that pressure thats building in the crankcase will take the path of least resistance... and blow back out the carb... instead of filling the cylinder.

#26
Thread Starter
Tech Adept
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 148
For the sleeve I use this:
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Quality-20.../dp/B000MOI9G6
And I must say the Dremel wall tile cutter is also an awesome tool for the sleeve:
http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessor...aspx?pid=TR562
For the crankshaft I use simple grinding stones for a Dremel tool.
For raising the ports you can also try to modify an headshim so it will fit over the sleeve. When placed under the upper edge of the sleeve you will raise all the ports. But what you add to raise the sleeve must be taken away from the head to be sure the combustion chamber will stay at the same height.
This is done a lot, for some brands they are even available:
http://www.capricornrc.com/capricorn...d_product=1320
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Quality-20.../dp/B000MOI9G6
And I must say the Dremel wall tile cutter is also an awesome tool for the sleeve:
http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessor...aspx?pid=TR562
For the crankshaft I use simple grinding stones for a Dremel tool.
For raising the ports you can also try to modify an headshim so it will fit over the sleeve. When placed under the upper edge of the sleeve you will raise all the ports. But what you add to raise the sleeve must be taken away from the head to be sure the combustion chamber will stay at the same height.
This is done a lot, for some brands they are even available:
http://www.capricornrc.com/capricorn...d_product=1320
I ordered everything, and can't wait to start experimenting. I have been using the wrong tools for years!! Thanks.
#27
Thread Starter
Tech Adept
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 148
For the sleeve I use this:
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Quality-20.../dp/B000MOI9G6
And I must say the Dremel wall tile cutter is also an awesome tool for the sleeve:
http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessor...aspx?pid=TR562
For the crankshaft I use simple grinding stones for a Dremel tool.
For raising the ports you can also try to modify an headshim so it will fit over the sleeve. When placed under the upper edge of the sleeve you will raise all the ports. But what you add to raise the sleeve must be taken away from the head to be sure the combustion chamber will stay at the same height.
This is done a lot, for some brands they are even available:
http://www.capricornrc.com/capricorn...d_product=1320
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Quality-20.../dp/B000MOI9G6
And I must say the Dremel wall tile cutter is also an awesome tool for the sleeve:
http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessor...aspx?pid=TR562
For the crankshaft I use simple grinding stones for a Dremel tool.
For raising the ports you can also try to modify an headshim so it will fit over the sleeve. When placed under the upper edge of the sleeve you will raise all the ports. But what you add to raise the sleeve must be taken away from the head to be sure the combustion chamber will stay at the same height.
This is done a lot, for some brands they are even available:
http://www.capricornrc.com/capricorn...d_product=1320
#28
Be very careful messing with the tops of intake ports. The angles are absolutely CRITICAL. Mess it up and you can "short circuit" and engine as Gordon Jennings calls it, destroying its fuel mileage and hurting power. Plus for onroad use, you really don't need to. Exhaust and crank timing are more key.
#29
Thread Starter
Tech Adept
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 148
Be very careful messing with the tops of intake ports. The angles are absolutely CRITICAL. Mess it up and you can "short circuit" and engine as Gordon Jennings calls it, destroying its fuel mileage and hurting power. Plus for onroad use, you really don't need to. Exhaust and crank timing are more key.
Thanks for the knowledge, and I guess I got lucky in the power department and unlucky in the fuel mileage. It runs like hell but goes through fuel like an old hot rod!!
#30
Yep, normally the intake does not need any change in timing unles you gonna work with shims to raise the sleeve.
But be sure when you have grinded into the pots you have to smoothen the sharp edges, if you do not do that you will get scratches on the piston.
But be sure when you have grinded into the pots you have to smoothen the sharp edges, if you do not do that you will get scratches on the piston.



