nova rossi ceramic bearing
 

Hi guys, is it true tat we have to warm up the ceremic bearing on the nova engine, before we can go full speed??? if yes, how long do i need to warm up for???

You know how some people will start the car and then they really zing it up to clear it out before putting it on the track? Don't do that with a ceramic bearing. Small, brief little blips to keep it running until it gets a bit of temp in it. Then put it on the track, go easy for a lap or two and you should be fine.

It's not so much that you have to keep the rpm's down, you just don't want big, rapid rpm changes until it gets some heat in it. In other words, no hard free revving.

nova
 

tks so much for yr info. tat reali helps bro

Its not true, the heat is better to be in the entire engine before you go full pace, not just the sleeve or the bearings.
That's why you go around the track slow-ish to get some heat into it before you start tuning.
Ceramics require very little lubrication, especially full ceramic bearings, but the steel race ceramic bearings do require some more so the steel parts dont heat up and seize or wear out too fast.

What's not true? I never said go flat out cold. Quite the opposite.

Speaking specifically of the bearing, rapid rpm changes when cold cause the balls to skid, damaging the races. It's not rpm that hurts them, it's the rpm changes.

What Im saying, at least I think Im trying to say, is that in a ceramic VS steel bearing scenario, the ceramic does not need lubrication in the fuel to get it to perform well - they go all out no matter what, whereas the steel bearing needs a bit of lube and heat to get it to be at its best inside an engine.
The heat also gets the engine running best so that the tune it has doesn't (at least it shouldn't) change throughout the race, thats why you go a little richer during a 20+ minute race, so that it doesn't overheat causing damage and making the engine flame-out.

The fresh fuel going through the crankshaft keeps it quite cool downstairs in the engine, if you do pre heat the engine it should be warm enough for the bearings.

nova
 

ok guys, so wats the conclusion??? ceremic bearing needs warm up??? if yes, for how long??? 2 laps??? 1 lap???? still must thank all of your valuable info... tks guys

Ask ten different people and you will get ten different answers. What I was told by an actual bearing manufacturer is avoid rapid rpm changes (the zing, zing, zing on the starter box for example) especially when cold. I'll take his word over anyone's short of a Rossi himself. :D

10 Different Answers
 

Wingracer is correct and Mr Rossi does agree with you if you go to the Novarossi Site and read the information available, I beleive it is under Warranty Care and Maintenance steel and ceramic no difference

DJ,

You really need to pull your head in and stop poofing on with mis leading information on this forum.

Some of the rubbish posted that we have all seen is now wearing a little thin.

You know nothing about engines, nothing about modifying them and to top it all off your going to get your arse handed to you at the Vic State Titles in Melbourne next week end, in fact you will be lucky to make a 1/4 final.....

Do youself a favour, stop posting info that you clearly know nothing about, as right now you wouldn't know if a black dog was up you sideways........

Ciao

Kyle

You beat me to it :lol:

Back on subject, there was quiet an interest read on this subject some time back. Basically, the ceramic balls were more prone to "skate/slip" prior to getting some heat and oil into them, hence why it wasn't recommeded to give them too much squirt from a cold start.

whoa whoa whoa!! WTF is going on???
I never said "Im right, follow my advice and no-one elses" just putting in what I've read up!

I never said Im a pro modder either, just that I can do a few things to make an engine run better than stock, so who are you to start flaming me down like a tonne of bricks??? Just uncalled for...

So what's the deal??? Just tell Im wrong and correct me, that's how people learn. Sheesh..

YO, EASY GUYS, PLAY NICE;)

just for ease of mind bench warm the engine & take a couple of soft laps & you should be good

+1 Roe

exactly, no engine likes to run crazy while it's cold. Ceramic or not, it has to be ready to go all out otherwise problems will come up either during the race, or just later in it's life faster than it should.

I need further clarification, is it correct that if you use ceramic bearings then you don't have to run oil in the fuel because the bearings does not need lubrication?

I have a Max .12 MF with ceramics, we run 16% for clubs and nationals here, the engine has done about 3.5 litres of fuel, never had to change the bearings, just the conrod and the wrist pin, i do however after every meet put about 2-4 drops on after-run oil in the engine and drop in the carb and turn the flywheel by hand a couple of times.

If you dont overheat the engine, all the internals, bearing included will last alot longer, 3.5lts on the same bearing and they are as good as new.

No, that would be incorrect.
Ceramic bearings do require lubrication to keep things working, but unlike steel bearings they operate under less frictional force and don't generate as much heat as steel bearings. That's why they can run using less lubrication. You still need oil in the fuel to cool the engine (to a point) and so the other parts like the rod and pin areas can still be functional and not fail!
This is what I've read somewhere on the Boca Bearings site I believe, so if they are wrong, then I would be too considering I got this information from them.

So if somebody actually knows and can confirm what they say, just tell me - that's how people learn better. Not by basically screaming at them :D :D

It is not about needing less lubrication the whole time. At higher RPM's you do come to a limit that lubrication does not work well. We do reach that every time on the straight. Low friction materials like DLC coatings and ceramic may run on low lubrication for a short moment without damaging instantly.

Correct. But I dont think that lubrication becomes much of a problem once you start reaching the 42,000 RPM mark, hardly any engine no matter what brand doesn't see that much RPM very often. And if it does, that would most likely be it's peak on a track IMO.

In a ceramic Vs steel comparison, under the same RPM and load circumstance, the ceramic bearing does not generate as much heat caused by the load and the friction of the balls and races as it rotates compared to a steel bearing.
Ceramic materials have a much lower coefficient of friction, which means that with the same surface contact area a steel bearing has as well, the amount of friction is a lot less in the Ceramic, so with that you get a more free spinning bearing that essentially runs cooler and can spin faster and easier then the highest quality steel bearing, unless its a poorly made ceramic Vs a Swiss "ABEC 10" steel bearing!! :D :D Plus the ceramic material is a lot lighter than steel materials which adds to reduced rotating mass!

Food for thought
 

Something just to think about, the higher the rpm the more fuel you run, which in turn means more oil thru the motor.
Most bearing in motors are not ceramic they are only a hybrid steel case with ceramic balls.
Lubricant oil is also friction (drag on the engine internals)

True, but if you think about it, the HSN is supposed to keep the flow constant mor-or-less, so you're right in saying more fuel is going through per second, but not per revolution, if you get what I mean.

True but the raised heat is affecting the viscosity and working of the oil. More rpm does also mean more strokes so per stroke it does not use more fuel/oil, maybe even less......

This is anal.

It is common sense to warm your engine before hard usage whatever bearings you use.

If the bearings are fcuked after a couple of gallons then replace them, ceramic or not. Chances are you would want a new engine by then anyway.

The main issue is that the Novarossi bearings aren't that what they supposed to be, a 5 liter of use maximum is becomming quite normal. Drivers are searching for a reason and do look it in their use and fuels while the bearings are just crap.

Yes, you definitely have to warm up the engine to operating temps no matter how good the engine is. Its just how it all works. Ceramic or not, the engine runs differently when its cold compared to normal temps.

i didnt mind the blue ceramic balls of novarossi a couple of years ago. since they have gone to the black ones, had nothing but problems.
generally i will run in the motor , use it a couple of round days, then replace to steel bearing. they seem to last longer. and i dont really see a huge performance loss from it :rolleyes:

This has been my experience too, especially the black ball bearings. If you run them much more than qualifiers and one main with out replacing , you are asking for trouble.

Been using Acer ceramic bearings in my electric/nitro cars with zero failures. Gonna get some for my engine and try em.

You have to get more-or-less "engine specific" bearings. I dont know why, but maybe they are made differently to general-use bearings?? They have clutch specific bearings e.g: 5x10 bearings - they have 5x10 clutch bearings and 'normal' bearings.

EDIT: Oh, I also got a ceramic rear bearing through Acer for a TRX 3.3 I have, it wasn't an "engine" bearing, but it did very well and never had any issues with it, just removed the shields on it and installed it. Im sure it would be fine to get it and put it in your engine. Just keep an eye on it from time to time.

DJ, shouldn't you be at the Lillydale track right now practising for the big race this weekend, instead of being here on the forums and crapping on all the time??? ;)

He shouldnt need any practise with all his knowledge ;) he just turns up for the last round of qualifying and TQ's and wins :D.

This should be how it works with all the crap he posts !!!! :lol:

WTF??
 

I would be practising, but I know it's not gonna help me be any faster.
And what's with all the crapping on me? I mean cmon, seriously???
What am I saying that is soo wrong?? Just because I know a few things, get a few wrong, all of a sudden it's like I'm saying "I'm a fantastic driver, I don't need any help from anyone, I'm just pro."
Well?? Jeez, it's like being back in school with all the nobs picking on others because they have nothing to do.
Seriously, I'll be breaking hands if this keeps going on.
Not happy.:flaming::flaming:

i think most are just takin the piss DJ, but the problem lies, is an engine bearing is different to normal bearing, and to suggest the use of a normal ceramic bearing in ones $7-800 engine to have it explode, is not a good one.
novarossi make ceramic bearings, and there is a way to put them in, why ? it is due to the bearing being offset. so you must use the correct bearing for your application. and i just read your other post, about you. :D
it gets to some people when info is handed out with out thinking about what you just said. take bearings for instance, i would not use nor say to someone else to run a normal bearing. load rating, RPM range is the material it is intended for, once a bearing looses its hardness, you will see destruction with in seconds down a straight. secondly, about engine modding, you refer to the best (murnan) then offer to do it for free, what are you trying to say ? thats what i think is more the point. personally i would only post to help some one, when you 100% know you can, or you are offering the right information. some people know more than yourself, myself, and even the best keep learning. and a motor is a high end , not a baseline truck engine. an out of the box Nova will be more powerfull than a traxas 3.3, so when you tinker with those, its easy to get power. not so with a motor out of the box of late from some of the more reputable brands, Nova, RB, Max etc. i only say this is you relate to the 3.3 alot that you have played with. i have helped many people on this forum, and i have also recieved alot of help, but its been behind closed doors, PM is the best way, then you dont suffer so much with the fighting. just some food for thaught. and yeah the Vics are on, you should be tearing your car down everynight, checking bearings, checking your engines, reset your droops and cambers, and charging batteries. :lol::tire:

Hahaha, yeah, well I did give it a tear down recently and cleaned all the bearings, greased them up and whatnot, Im not there to be the next world champ but to go there for the experience and to learn what it's like at a race such as State Titles.
Thanks for the help, Ill try and be a little smarter on posts - I saw where I said a ceramic needs no lubrication!! Face-palm right there!!

as long as you learn by mistakes, you are moving forward. its easy to pick out the wrongs, but some people cant make the good things stand out either. thats why i PM, but even then you can get into problems. :rolleyes:

Thanks man! Hopefully - like it says in my sig - Ill get to the BIG races :cool::cool:
Do you still race on-road?
Hahaha I should be asleep now! Ill reply tomorrow morning!! ...hopefully.