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Old 07-01-2010, 12:36 PM   #16
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Tomorrow (if my free afternoon is approved) I will go to one of the mentioned spring suppliers to get some information about springs. I had some nice email contact with them and they will give me some advice. I will take an engine with the clutch and some different springs with me, even the Orion square spring which still does give amazing performances.
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:19 PM   #17
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By the way, is there a list of the clutch springs and their specs (force/distance) to be found?
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:41 PM   #18
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I did go to the spring supplier and had some interesting talk.

I just got 3 different discs of 8.2 x 15 in 0.6, 0.7 and 0.8 mm thickness. I grinded down the 0.6 discs to a diameter of 12.2 mm and they do fit.
It seems that only the nut has to be tighten so no real pe-tension is needed.
I do not come to 12 discs, it fits but it is very difficult to screw on the nut.
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Disc spring as Centax clutch spring ?-discspring.jpg  
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:06 PM   #19
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Man those things look thick. Probably won't be able to run much gap or you will bottom the springs and have no clutch.
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:20 PM   #20
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11 springs just have to handle 0.7mm, that is about 0.065mm per spring.

The original 15mm wide springs may handle 0.3mm per spring, from what I have taken off they still should handle 0.2mm per spring.

As mentioned I probebly do not need to give much pre-tension what will let the spring on its strength.

By the way, do not het fooled by the thickness of 2 discs against each other: () , There where they touch each other it seems thick.
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Old 07-03-2010, 10:13 AM   #21
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I am amazed!

We did do some testing today and one of the tests was changing to these discs but due rain and thunder we could not drive on the track.

On the table in the pits we could feel the clutch. It has a better/higher engage point and the moment of slip is short but controlable.

Next time we will see houw it runs on the track.
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
I am amazed!

We did do some testing today and one of the tests was changing to these discs but due rain and thunder we could not drive on the track.

On the table in the pits we could feel the clutch. It has a better/higher engage point and the moment of slip is short but controlable.

Next time we will see houw it runs on the track.
Why is higher better? For some engines it is worse...
Just try the Shepherd spring 610407 combined with the light weight weights. 80% of all top-drivers do. You will have the possibility to have a better engage without slip and with or without higher rpm. And that for less then half of the price...

If this would be better, it would be adopted by the top-drivers long time ago.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:09 AM   #23
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Why is higher better? For some engines it is worse...
Just try the Shepherd spring 610407 combined with the light weight weights. 80% of all top-drivers do. You will have the possibility to have a better engage without slip and with or without higher rpm. And that for less then half of the price...

If this would be better, it would be adopted by the top-drivers long time ago.
And why is the Shepherd spring most used? Because it is the hardest spring to find in the world of RC racing.
Now I have a 88 cent costing spring I can renew every race if needed and so far I can see working better than all others I have tried.

Beside that all, you have tried is as you said, so you also have the urge to try something when you see it. What parts manufacturers show us and sell us does not have to be the best options. I now know for sure if you want a good spring that will not loose its strength by the influence of the pre-tension and heat it will cost you some money because the expensive materials.

And do you know what is fun with this spring?
With combaning thicker and thinner rings as parallel and serie stacking you can change the working
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:23 AM   #24
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And why is the Shepherd spring most used? Because it is the hardest spring to find in the world of RC racing.
Now I have a 88 cent costing spring I can renew every race if needed and so far I can see working better than all others I have tried.

Beside that all, you have tried is as you said, so you also have the urge to try something when you see it. What parts manufacturers show us and sell us does not have to be the best options. I now know for sure if you want a good spring that will not loose its strength by the influence of the pre-tension and heat it will cost you some money because the expensive materials.

And do you know what is fun with this spring?
With combaning thicker and thinner rings as parallel and serie stacking you can change the working
Yes we have and it works 88 cent (1 USD) x 11? The good springs for 4,30 Euro will not loose its strength, we use them the whole year. Beside that, changing the working has also something to do with the shoe, weights, gap, engine etc... now you add one more dependency and more cost.

It is always fun to try something new, this just does not add vallue.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:08 AM   #25
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8 cents a disk !!!! But want to go to the RVS version costing 40 cents a disc which is more stable in wear off tension and less influence of heat.

Quote:
It is always fun to try something new, this just does not add vallue.
And that is not up to you to tell me but for me to find out if you are right or not as you were so wrong with the DAX suspension.....
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:37 AM   #26
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8 cents a disk !!!! But want to go to the RVS version costing 40 cents a disc which is more stable in wear off tension and less influence of heat.



And that is not up to you to tell me but for me to find out if you are right or not as you were so wrong with the DAX suspension.....
Its my personal opinion Roelof ... What did DAX bring you in results? Who adopted it?
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:26 AM   #27
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:50 AM   #28
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If this would be better, it would be adopted by the top-drivers long time ago.
I really hate that argument. So you're saying only the "pros" are smart enough to come up with something better?

So many of the biggest advancements in auto racing technology did NOT come from some billion dollar corporation but instead they came from some backyard garage tinkerer trying to figure out a neat way to outrun his buddies.

People like Smokey Yunick, Jim Hall, Collin Chapman, Dan Gurney, Don Garlitts all made their names by figuring out how to build a better mousetrap.

Maybe this will turn out to be a failure, but we often learn more from our failures than from our successes.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:57 AM   #29
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I really hate that argument. So you're saying only the "pros" are smart enough to come up with something better?

Yes! Just had a look at teh EC 2010, nobody with discs, Dax or what ever....
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:00 AM   #30
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Yes! Just had a look at teh EC 2010, nobody with discs, Dax or what ever....
Straight to the point How is it going Pieter?
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