thanks for the info-it makes me feel better. because when i was running it at those higher temps (250-260) the motor sounded great. when i richened it up to make it cooler it sounded boggish and did not perform.

Thats what you should be tuning by anyway. The sound and performance. The temp is just whats left AFTER you get those two things right.

Don't worry, your probably right where you need to be.

Just go have some fun!:cool:

I totally agree with every part of your post DS!

If I had a dyno and the tools to do the testing I would try to prove my theory that these new motors are capable of handling 300+ deg racing temps (at the glow plug). Keep in mind that the materials and technology have come a long way in the last few years. Plus, the temps we are taking are at the steel glow plug- have you ever temped the head or block of a motor that is running 260 degrees? It's considerably less at the block.

I would like to add one thought to Dark's post- this comes from years of nitrous tuning on race motors- your ONLY window to what is happeneing inside the combustion chamber is the plug. You can tune a motor until you think it has the perfect note and the perfect temp etc etc, but until you thoroughly inspect the plug and in the best case scenario install a fresh new plug to REALLY see what's going on, you haven't completed your tuning. Next time the NMCA comes to your town, go look in the pits at the nitrous motor cars and see what the FIRST thing they do when the car comes back from a 2000+ hp 6 second pass- they pull the plugs, get out the special lighted magnifying tool and thoroughly inpect each and every plug. You might not be able to tune your motor to the ultimate tune-up like Collari or Baker, but if you never pull the plug and inspect it to see what it's doing in certain situations, you will never learn to tune correctly.

Which nitro motor website has the big long explanation on plug inspection and motor tuning where it explains all about the colors of the wire, the base of the plug etc and how to tune by reading it? I'm not at home and I forget what site it's on...

i would like to see that site as well. i know nothing about reading plugs

You can find all about tuning and glow plugs at Master Dennis Ritchey's web site:

http://www.richeyracingengines.com/tuning.htm

In short, one must tune the engine for max. performance and watch out that a clear trail of smoke comes out of the pipe after every acceleration coming out of turns, and that power doesn't decrease over the lenght of the tests, then read the plug, correct tuning if necessary.
After that, when you feel comfortable with performance, take a temp reading and register it for reference purpose.
Every engine and ambient condition has it's "ideal" ref. temp, but one musn't tune for temp, but for performance.
All new engines are comfortable running (racing) between 250°F and 260°F.

AFM

Well I don't know about other tuners out there, but for my area the P6 is working out great in this engine. Glad I put my order in when I did, due to Tower now having the next shipment in by late September. I let the piston and sleeve soak in the oil through one rich tank, then allowed the engine to spool through a pretty lean racing condition setting. I could not even remember what the settings are at, but my estimate is that the low is turned in almost at 3/4 from std and the high has to be about 1-1/4 turns from std. factory settings. It runs great low, mid and high, with a little smoke blowing out of the dual chamber pipe around corners and more off the straight. The temp for the head here in Texas is reading around 219-222 under racing conditions with a lean setting. Good luck Sean, hope you learn to tune to your benefits. Just as a test I ran the engine through half a tank under stressfull conditions and then let it idle through the other half of the tank......guess what?.......she idled straight through till the last drop! What a great engine! Hope everyone enjoys this engine as much as I will.:nod:

The P6 is also working great for me. I'm surprised since I was always told to run cold plugs with 30% nitro. Then I heard to run hot plugs any time you run turbo plugs....ahhhhhh, so much info.

So I decided to assume that O.S. knew what they were doing when they put that plug in there. So I just stopped thinking and ran the damn thing!:lol:

I know about reading plugs, at least I know how to read the extremes. I can see a plug thats running really rich or really hot, but the in betweens really take a keen eye to understand.

The P6 is a lot like the Novarossi 6C plug. You want to run hot plugs in the .12 engines relative to .21 motors. This is when turbo plugs first started appearing in .12 motors. Now the norm, people are saying to run cold plugs because of these more powerful .12s coming out. They are becoming more and more like .21s, price wise at least. :lol:

I generally always use a 6C plug and go to a 7C when the weather gets really hot.

Damn skippy!!!:lol:


Thats why the price/performance for the R-Spec is such a breath of fresh air.:nod:

i have been doing a little more experimenting and getting some better results,although my TR still wants to be a little on the hot side for the best performance. this may sound like a really stupid question and i think i know the answer but i will ask anyway. if i ran 30% nitro would i be better off as far as temp? i was thinking that with a higher nitro content i could put more fuel through the engine(run it richer) hoping that maybe the increased fuel through the engine would help keep it cooler-yet not bogg it down because i have a higher nitro content which burns better? i dont know, just a thought

My suggestion would be to check your head shimming. Sometimes having to much or to little head clearance can generate heat.
For a .12 engine on 30% nitro, the ideal head clearance should be .021 inch. For 20% nitro it should be .017 inch.
Measure the recess distance between top of cylinder sleeve and piston at TDC, then measure actual head recess distance between chamber and shim surface, then subtract those to measurements and put appropiate shim to get suggested total head clearance.

AFM

that would be interesting info to have anyway- i have the appropriate micrometers at work that i use for shimming outdrives,altthough my digital calipers have a depth reading- i can probably just use that. another thing i noticed was the body i am runnig sucks. it seems to get hot much quicker with it on. all they had at the hobby shop was a VW JETTA. when i run the car without it it doesnt get hot so quick. that body also seems to slow th car down considerably-plus i was worried about ventilation so the whole body looks like swiss cheese.

Sean, the jetta body is fine. Just remember that if you are just driving it up and down a parking lot, your temps are always going to differ from those that actually race these cars. The only holes that are actually needed in a lexan body are those that you use for adjusting the carb, 2" hole in the front and rear windsheild. I do not even cut out any of the side windows for vent. Most of us that race use 30% nitro content. I did not shim nor change the glow plug using 30% nitro on this R-Spec. I realized that when I made the switch from a 20% to 30% that the temps on my RB's came down a bit due to the nitro cooling the engine down a bit. Besides it produced more power on the track. I gave up a little run time per tank with 30%, but it does not hurt when you have a good pit crew.:D Just keep in mind that you should use the low end needle to adjust for punch acceleration (timing) and the high end needle for power (temp control). If your car boggs a bit before it takes off, you could lean the low end a bit till it just blast off the ground. Then adjust the high end needle to readjust the temp settings during high speed runs. I usually just adjust the high end as the car is lifted from the ground at WOT till it sounds like it is at its best high rev.

Sean, in my experience, my engine always runs about 15-20 degrees hotter when I run a sedan body compared to the Lola style shell I usually run. So if your running a sedan style body, your engine is really right where it should be on temp. Cause if you stick on a Lola and go running, you'll lose at least 15 degrees from air flow alone.

Like I said, just go have some fun!:D

hey a lola style body sounds great. i dont race yet, just drive around for fun. could you recomend a good lola body for the NTC3? i really appreciate the help with my engine guys. i may not race but i still take my hobby pretty seriously. i am very big on maitenence and proper set up. i find it very challenging and relaxing at the same time. i also dont like to abuse things for no reason-thats why i ask so many questions. thanks again, sean

Its always good to hear that people still treat this as a hobby.
here you go Sean.
http://64.70.208.72/speedtechrc/3.html

I think that the only ones that Steve has left are from Yokomo. Check it out. You will have to do some cutting around the front shock tower (the body) to get it to sit down farther for lower effect. Good luck.

Frewer also makes lola and can-am lola (enclosed cockpit) bodies as well.

GOOD BYE OVERHEAT!
 

like i was saying, i thought that the jetta body was contributing to my high temps. i had run the car around with out the body and it would be fine, as soon as i put the shell on the temp would rise dramaticly. well today i went to a large parking lot and left the body off. i ran through about 3 tanks straight and my temp never went over 215-220. if i had put the jetta body on after 1 lap i would have been well into the 260's. the car spun out alot though. i have to get myself a nice Lola or GTP body now and i will be all set. thanks for the help guys!

Sean,
since you are running the ntc3, you might check to see if the opening of the heatsink is rotated to the correct pass through position. For us ntc3 users, most of the heatsinks has to be rotated 90 degrees for air to pass through properly for cooling. Just a thought for you.;)

If you are looking for a wedge body, look for the Loletta I think from Frewer also. It has a bulgy front end to clear the front shock tower.

What kind of gearing are you using. If you have some low gearing down a very long street, the motor temp will be above normal. I find that the TR R-Spec can be geared a little higer.

Re: GOOD BYE OVERHEAT!
 

Sean: please don't take this the wrong way, but just for the sake of trying to help, I have to ask. Have you cut the proper air holes into your sedan body? When running a sedan style body your allowed to cut out a 2" diameter hole in the windsheild(inline with the heatsink head of course), cut out both front side windows, and cut out a couple 2" diameter holes in the rear window to let the air blow out the back. These holes are must for running a sedan body and if they aren't cut, they'll send your temps through the roof.

I'm not trying to make you out to be a nitro newby by asking this, but with the instant heat increases your getting by putting on your body, I figured that was a valid question to ask.

Just checking...:cool:

i cut a 2" hole in the windsheild another hole in the rear window as well as a large hole in the roof. on top of the 2" holes i drilled a bunch of tiny holes through out the rest of the windows, front and rear. it looks like a car that tried to run a check point in Iraq it has so many holes in it. i know you may be thinking that the car has too much drag with all those holes, but i was worse before i drilled them

Cool, just checking...

As for the Lola body. I like to use the Frewer bodies because Speedtech sells them for $15. The Yokomo Lola's are just as good, but cost a bit more.

Lola's are hard to come by these days, especially the Frewer bodies. So you might have to pick up a Yokomo body.

Just got my OS .12 Tr-R Spec yesterday from my local hobby shop.
They still have 2 of them. Price $175

Just got back from nats.

Ron Atomic put his Kyosho with the TR-R spec in tenth in the A after qualifying and finnished 7th.

Looked real strong, though i wasnt impressed with his team mates cars.

That right there is crazy! Imagine what he would do with a Novarossi! I ran my TR R-Spec in the race today and I was not very happy with it. The motor did not run fast enough under 255 degrees. I was getting killed on the straight. I'm going to have my friend open up the motor for sure.

If you are not racing, some of this is irrelevant. I just wanted to clarify one point and make a suggestion or two with regards to cooling holes.

1st: The legal diameter for the hole in the front windshield is 50mm not 2". Unfortuneately 2" is a little larger than 50mm.

2nd: You would be better off removing the entire back window rather than cutting a few large holes in it. This give better airflow.

3rd: As somebody else stated, you can remove both "front seat" side windows, but you can't cut the "back seat" side windows.

Also the roof glow plug access hole can only be 30mm.

I wish I could find some metric hole saws... Anybody know where to get some?

yeah, i cut my hole at 2" and had to make a lexan peice to attatch cuz it was too big.

tower
 

Tower sells them for $158.00 with a $20.00 rebate!

Re: tower
 

Tower is currently out of stock on this motor an will not have any more in until after September 19th. This is what I was told on Sept 3rd.

I raced this past weekend with the R-Spec and had absolutely no problems besides keeping it fired after the rain passed over and high humidity. I decided not to retune for the humidity and just warmed the engine up to temp and raced a 15min main with no problems. I thought the engine performed flawlessly, even in the straight portion of the track and the temps never went over 226 with the P6 plug and 30% racing fuel. Awesome engine and I would recommend this engine to those that race at club level tracks.:nod:

Does anyone know why Tower discontinued to carry this product?:(

Yeah, I just noticed this on another thread. Why is the R-Spec being discontinued??? Certainly can't be because it didn't live up to expectations...

Be realistic guys this motor can not keep up with the high end novas and evo2s on a large track, my tr-p 5 port is slower than than my ns12 3 port. Great small track club motor though.

It's still available as per OS web site

http://www.osengines.com/engines/osmg2007.html

That's weird. They were going pretty cheap though...maybe there is really a novarossi killer in the works.

;)

i just went to place my order for the r spec and tower says that it is discontinued!?
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGPF1&P=0

maybe that was a typo on Tower's part ... as of Monday 9-20-04 at noon they show it in stock for $159.

which glow plug???
 

guys, which glow plug works best with the ostr 3 port engine??? the engine came with an a5 plug. should i use an a3 or an r5 plug??? what's the difference between the above plugs mentioned??? thanks:D