could someone tell me how/where to get a piston and sleeve for a .12tr? is that all that is required for a rebuild? do i need a new connecting rod? if there are rebuild kits availible or if there is a link to a web site that could help me out i would appreciate it.

At least one more for the Regionals in October. I need one for main use and another for backup.

Seeing Ron's car was what made me get one. His is modified though. I also drive an FW-05R.

anybody? :confused:

www.towerhobbies.com

I think you will need the piston&sleeve, conrod, and wrist pin

is this information a secret or something? there is no piston,sleeve,connecting rod or wrist pin listing with tower hobbies. type in piston,you get shock parts,go to O.S. parts listing and there is nothing but carbs and mufflers. do you guys just throw your engines out when they need a rebuild? nobody knows where to get this stuff? i dont have a LHS so i would REALLy appreciate someone telling me where i can order this stuff.

if your talking about for the r-spec, i doubt you can even get it yet, but towerhobbies is the north american distributer (great planes)

Here it is

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=OSMG2007&P=Z

These are the same parts as the regular TR 12. You will need everything I mentioned earlier as wells as the wrist pin clips.

No problem. I was happy to write it. Its not too often that you stumble upon a truely great value, and when you do, your happy to tell everyone.

At my next race, I'm going to experiment with a little exponential on the early part of the throttle curve. Just to make the early-to-early mid power a little more controlable.

Hows the fuel millage compared to a nsr or x-12
anyone had these motors before the trr to compair them.

it's the same piston and sleeve? forget it then, that makes it the same engine.

:confused:

Perhapes if you can be more clear on exactly what your looking for??? I've read your post a couple times and I'm still not quite sure what your seeking. Are you looking to rebuild your current TR. Are you trying to upgrade it to an R-Spec? What?:confused:

But if your saying that the R-Spec and the standard TR are the same engine, then you've obviously never seen one of the run. See one run, then make that call... :nod:

from what i see add a turbo head button and the tr becomes tr r-spec,

that just going by what parts are in side according to manufacture .

maybe someone could supply some info to say other wise

Okay, I've broken in my R-Spec and I like it! It's lacking a bit on the top end but the power curve is so instantaneous. It definately has more bottom and mid range power than my REX.

Concerning the difference between the regular TR and the R-Spec, there appears to be little. For some reason, it runs much better than a regular TR. I guess the turbo head does make a big difference.
I'm going to use this motor at the next race and see how my lap times compare.

I will be getting another one.

What you guys are missing is that maybe there could be slight changes in the angles of the cuts on the ports on the sleeve. There may also be diffferences in the cuts in the fuel openings in the block and/or crank that make the tr and tr R-spec different. A friend of mine that modifies motors locally showed me just how a one degree change in the angle of the cut in the sleeve makes a difference in power increase and/or fuel consumption.

I find all the concern about whether there is a big difference or not, kinda ridiculous. To me, there is really only one question to ask..."does it run better". The answer is yes. I found NO lack in top end power when compared to other 'box stock' engines and neither did anyone else at my track.

One factor that no one seems to take into account is gearing. MANY, MANY, nitro racers think of engines as simply 'drop in and go' equipment. But engines are no different than electric motors. Some require different gearing to make their best performance. I wouldn't gear my original P2K the same as I would a Monster Stock. It just wouldn't work. So why drop in one engine with the same gearing you would another.

For example: I knew that my Sirio wouldn't produce as much bottom end as my TR, so I went down a tooth to help it when I started using it. And I went back to my normal gearing when I put in the R-Spec. I also knew that the R-Spec would reach its optimum power quicker, so I went up on the high end gearing to help its powerband be more useful for top end purposes.

End result...this engine puts out more power out of the corners than my Sirio and matches or suppases it on top end. Just think, if we weren't supposed to change the gearing, they wouldn't make the pinions and spurs removable.:lol:

One things for sure, if you don't believe its any different than the standard TR, just keep your original, theres nothing wrong with that. Its a damn good engine! BUT, if your in the market for a new engine, rather than try to 'put together' an R-spec by buying parts, just drop the $139-$159 to get a brand new R-Spec. Not many of us are engine experts, so who knows what may be different that we don't know about.

Like JLock said, its the little things that make these things work better, and I for one don't really care to learn about all of them!:lol:

iam not trying to bash the tr-r in anyway , but i am one who likes to know the differance in a up dated motor , not just , oh its better trust me, ive heard that many times from mod engine builder to stock engine manufactures, not very many live up to the hype, i have many mod and stock engines at this point but am always looking for a better one, power is never a problem but fuel millage always seems to be the down fall, i have raced agianst many tr in the past and to be honest thay just can compete with most nova based motors, and thats just the facts,
maybe on a very tight parking lot track they can compete but even then all thing being equal a nova based motor will useually win.

the reason i say the only differance looks like between the tr and the tr-r is the turbo button is the replacement part #s for
crank, rod,piston ,sleeve,block,are all the same between the two,
now yes the turbo will give it a slight incress in power but not enough to compete with a ns12 for instance.

maybe they super seeded the old part # with the new ones i dont know but that not likly.
there use to be a guy on here that worked for os or somethin like that maybe he could give us some hard facts on the motor.
also i think there was someone who said they modified a tr-r who was sponsored by OS maybe he could let us know what he did to make it run good on top end(specificts)

Well I'm not sure what we can tell you here then.:confused: Cause since none of us work for O.S., all we can give you is our experience with it.

I've owned both the standard and the R-spec, and I can see the difference. Those who raced with me last year can see the difference. Thats the best I can tell you.

What I don't get is that if there are so many questions in mind about the validity of O.S.'s 'improvement' claims, why even consider the R-spec.:confused:

From what you discribed, you already have some pretty quality powerplants at your disposal, I don't know if the R-Spec can surpass what you already have.

Especially if you have moded engines...

I'm not telling anyone to buy anything and I'm CERTAINLY not trying to justify my own purchase.(That speed and powah...for that price justifies my purchase) I'm no O.S. sales rep.:lol: Several people asked for my personal report about the engine and I gave it. Thats it...

The key line in that entire post was...

:cool:

Hey Darkseid dont get me wrong i like your report on the motor and believe what you say , i would just like to see some other peoples opinion on the motor that may have went from a nova base motor to an os, i use os in my 1/8 scale buggy and i think it is one of the fastest motors i have owned for off road,
i think they are struggeling right now with there p/s reliabilty for there new motor but performance is not a problem,

maybe i didnt get my point accross the wright way.
what is important to me is ----
are the new tr-r as fast as a stock nova on large tracks and how does the fuel millage compare, thats it .
like i sade i have faster motors iam sure but to have to pit at 4;30 minutes in a quaily just to finish makes the mod motors not worth it to me , ive had motor modders tell me that they would make more power, and they do, but also give better run time and it hasent happend yet.

Hopefully somebody here can give you that info. My engine progression goes from O.S. -to- Sirio -to- O.S. for on road. No Nova's in there......yet.:sneaky:

i gave up on rebuilding my TR for now and bought a new one. i have completed the break-in process and have benn running the car around a parking lot, but it seems to want to run lean. O.S. suggests starting with the needle valve 2 full turns out from closed. i actually ran it richer during break-in. but as far as driving the car,it will only spool up when the needle is 1 1/4 to 1/12 turns out. does that seem to lean? i have a infrared temp gun(very high quality SNAP-ON gun) and i have been watching the temp closely,trying not to go over 240(210 during break-in). how hot is too hot?

Of course all engines are different, but...

When I ran my standard TR last year, my final needle settings left me at around 1 1/4 turns out. Now depending on outside temp, I may have gone in/out an 1/8 of a turn, but essentially, I was always in that area. Usually with a runnig temp of 220-235. This was with the 10J slide carb.

With my new R-Spec and the 11A slide carb, I am pretty much at exactly 1 turn out. This left me with a max running temp of 198 on a 85 degree day. I've put the lower temp to the fact that this engine uses a significantly larger head than the original. Larger head=more cooling. Just like before, I may go in/out a 1/8 of a turn here or there depending on temp, but this seems to be just right on top end, fuel economy, and engine temp.

So your not too far off with your needle settings.

cool,thanks. and yes its the 10j slide. my one last question(for now) is a what temp does damage or premature wear occur? i just hit 270 by accident, turned the needle out and the extra fuel cooled it right down. i just broke it in this morning so i am keeping a close eye on it. i do 2 laps around the parking lot an check temp, i have been doing this all afternoon. i am finding that it is a thin line between top performance and too hot. anyway if i hit these higher temps but catch it and cool it right down, is that dangerous?

Some engine brands can run clear up to 300 without permanent damage......but that don't mean its a good idea either.:lol:

I would try to keep it below 250-255 just for safety sake. If you turn the needle in 1/8 turn incriments, you shouldn't go from normal to too hot that quickly! Just make small adjustments. But don't tune it by temp, tune it by the speed, fuel economy and sound of the engine. A temp gun is a good tool to have for damage prevention, but not for final engine tuning.

That's about where I am. 1 and 1/8 of a turn out on the high end. The motor runs 198 degrees. I hear the motor makes best performance around 240.

Regarding the difference agian, there is also the lightened piston that is also made out of different aluminum I think with a higher silicon content. There should be updated piston and sleeve assemblies later on in the year. The R-spec is not the same as the E-spec listed in the manual with part number breakdown.

i have about a quart of O'Donnel fuel through this thing and the piston still feels incredibly tight. the other thing is - the motor doesnt really perform well unless its on the lean side, kinda makes me nervous. it will have marginal speed and run very cool 190-200. i closed the needle no more than a 1/16 of a turn made 2 passes and it shot right up to 260. turned it back 1/16 of a turn and it cooled right off. very sensitive. oh, one other thing and this might be important.-when i take my temp readings i have been pointing the laser down into the top of the head,right where the plug seats-the hottest part of the engine. is that the correct way to read theses motors?

Yeah, your taking the temp from the right place. And your piston is going to be tight for quite some time with the new engine.(good thing...trust me) It just shouldn't be making those kinda jumps in temp with only 1/16 turn changes.:confused: :confused: :confused:

I admit, I'm no expert on this stuff. I'm still watching every move the local engine gurus make so that I can learn all the tricks of the trade. So I might have told you everything I can.

The only other advise I can give is to find someone you know and trust who knows engines and ask them about it. Best case, if the person can actuallly be with you while your running the engine.:nod:

Sean,

What type of fuel are you using? Also, what is the oil content of that fuel? Those two things make a big contributing factor in your engine temps shooting up with just a small turn of the high end needle. Also, when you adjusted the high end needle setting, did you make a small adjustment on the low end needle setting? Some forget that when changing your high end setting you may have to tweak the low end just a little (low end is not set in stone). The same tweak may have to be done on the mid range needle as well (not set in stone either). Just curious to know what are the circumstances behind your radical temp swings.

unfortunatley there really is nobody with expierience around here,no track either. the closest one is 1.5 hours away. i am mostly just parking lot bashing for now untill my work schedual allows me to get away. i have not touched the low end yet. the funny thing is that when it appears to be running hot, is also when it sounds the best and smoothest. i have to check the calibration of my temp probe.

It's good to see that so many of you are pleased with the new engine. I too ran the R-Spec at the Texas Biggie and have been running it locally this summer. Ron has had good success with it as well. My engines are box stock and still run with more expensive ROAR and 5 port engines locally.

As for tuning, don't tune solely by temperature. The engine must "sound" and carb correctly. You can tune by a max temp if you wish to protect your engine but, the max for any given engine is dependent on many things. If you have a higher air temp, the engine will run hotter at max power. If the air is cooler, the reverse is true. Humidity affects things as well, so does weather - cloudy, sunny, etc. I always tune my engine for max power and check the plug to confirm the engine is not too lean. I then check the temp to have a reference point.

I almost never touch the "mid-range needle" The mid-range is not a needle anyway, it's the spraybar. If you move it you affect the ENTIRE throttle range from idle up to WOT. The only time I touch it is during break in IF the engine is running especially rich across the entire range and the other needles are close to "normal" settings. I adjust my high speed for best power and then tune the low speed for best accelleration. The engine should settle back to idle from WOT quickly without run-on. Let the engine idle for 10-15 secs. and then go back to WOT, the engine should not hesitate or stumble but clear out easily and accellerate hard.

Hope this helps. Enjoy your O.S. power!!

Socko

thanks for the help guys, i will try some more experimenting after work today. i may have been holding my temp gun too close also.

i dont know, not very good today. i only got to run two tanks though and ran out of fuel. another thought i had was my driving. i have not been running on a track yet, just speeding around a parking lot. the fact that i am on throttle more than off might be why it tends to get hot. you guys are racing on a track and are probably not at WOT except on the straight,right? is there any fuel that has more oil than the others? i am using O'Donnel 20% right now.

I use Sidewinder 20% with 12 % oil and 30% with 12% oil (I started with 20% but have bought some new motor and switching to 30%). Byron is another good fuel to use; it gives you some extra oil for lubrication. I have used O'donnel's, Blue Thunder, and others, but have found Sidewinder and Byron's better suit my tuning and racing needs.

Any body here run the 5 port os turbo? i have one but havent run it yet just wanted to see where it stacks compared to the 3port R-spec

Jlock- You must have been at a different series race in Austin, the one I was at Kyle Skidmore (AE sponsored) TQ'd and he won the A-main. I was pitting for him and his car had the #1 on it at the start of the A-main.:D
Kyle's NS3 was box stock and it was screaming on the top end of the straight!

With that being said Ron's motor is very fast and normally very reliable, but he did have a little motor tuning issues during the main. His pit partner Toastie started in the E-main and bumped all the way up to the A-main with his OS TR motor. It had the old style blue head so it may have been one of Ron's older TR 5 ports that had been converted to a 3 port. It was a VERY strong motor and he probably had close to 2 hours of hard continous run time on it by the end of the day. If my motor runs as hard I will be all smiles.

I will have my R-spec back from being modified some time this week and will be running it at the next SWS series race. I will let you guys know how it stacks up to the other motors. I can't wait to see how it runs.

Apparently the motor is selling very well. My LHS already sold teh majority of his stock and when he tried to order more they were out of stock. O.S. has a winner!

hello from France,

in europe, we drive the E-spec version ( efra legal ) .

We have new lightenend piston with new sleeve ( agressive diagrams ) , new cranck shaft ( same design but higher diagrams ).

I use it during the french championship ( moded version by me ) on very big tracks (often 70m straight), and I have noo problems to compeet JP's or Rody's...
My TR have no problems when it's very hot ( Nova bases have....), and I ran out of fuel 1mn after the others....

Is the piston of R-spec lightened??

some pics of my OS

bye.

FFR3582,

I thought Ron Atomic set TQ; sorry for the mistake. Yes, I was at the same race but had my own issues that I was concentrating on and was not paying attention to the other things. I stand corrected.;) :D

Last year I ran my TR with 20% Blue Thunder and had no problems with lubricant. YES...:sweat:....its true that it turns the inside of your engine block blue, but I haven't seen any ill results from that.

This year I made the swith to Trinity's Platinum 30% which is only 9% lubricant, so I doubt thats what you would want to run.

As for your WOT running. Yes, most of us track guys only get to do WOT on the straight, but we have to do WOT quite a bit during final break in so that we can see how well the car is doing on top end and what the engine sounds like on the top. So while its not reccomended that you do constant WOT, it shouldn't be a major factor in your high temp.

Sean, 260 is no problem. You should be checking the temp with the big opening of the temp gun aimed down toward the glow plug- don't use the red laser when you're temping something that close. The laser is just a pointer that is only accurate a few inches away from the gun.

I would continue using O'Donnell or try White Lightening.

Once again guys- DO NOT run your motors extremely rich during break-in!! I don't know who came up with that bullshit, but running a motor extremely rich washes the cylinder walls down and doesn't get the sleeve hot enough to expand fully. Then your piston and sleeve "mate" at the wrong temps and the wrong RPMs and when you set the motor for racing conditions, the piston isn't broken in when it reaches high RPM (surely you guys don't think these motors don't have con rod stretch at 30K RPM!!!) and when the sleeve get 250-280 degrees it doesn't have the seal that it should have and you're pissed off wondering why your motor is hard to tune and not as powerful as the next guy why basically threw his new motor in the car, set it to be a little on the rich side (190 degrees) for a tank or two, then went fully bore racing!! Cause his motor was basically broken in the way a race motor SHOULD be broken in!!:eek: :weird: :nod: