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Old 02-20-2009, 06:07 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by suntok2 View Post
I already order from Nova and so far I dont received stock motor price. all 2009 version are tune version
But what is stock and what is tuned ?

You can only mount a head with "Tuned" written on it and only a few drivers will notice it.
I can not imagine only tuned versions will be available, with the lower prices from other brands there is a need for affordable engines and "tuned" does not fit into that view unless the prices are in the range of others.
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Old 02-20-2009, 01:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
But what is stock and what is tuned ?

You can only mount a head with "Tuned" written on it and only a few drivers will notice it.
I can not imagine only tuned versions will be available, with the lower prices from other brands there is a need for affordable engines and "tuned" does not fit into that view unless the prices are in the range of others.

the 353 09 comes tuned as standard, no more optional tuned shaft.......and price is barely the same as previous standard one..........

the flash .21 does not look like a tuned shaft though.........


the 2009 engines are priced as expected for new releases...........


but the previous versions had the price reduced and there are many engines with great performance and now great price and with the well known Novarossi quality.......

ex: Collari, 3SCT and others.........they are still great engines (Collari IMHO is still the best .21 available) and now they go for lower price than last years.........
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Old 02-20-2009, 03:11 PM   #33
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the 353 09 comes tuned as standard, no more optional tuned shaft.......and price is barely the same as previous standard one..........

the flash .21 does not look like a tuned shaft though.........
What is tuned? Fancy cuts, nice and shining parts and the marking on the head?
No, real tuning is mostly a better timing, nothing more and nothing less.
If the inside looks like tuning it does not say anything about the timings.

Novarossi has to sell a stock and tuned version so they can sell the higer price for a tuned version for those who want to pay more. And be real, the engine as it is today is not different compared with 20 years ago. Only new machinery and materials can make tolerances and the "fancy cuts" better and cheaper and the trend is to show new engines every year which must be better than previous. Only the fancy stuff does sell to a lot of people.

So far the Novarossi 35-plus-21 is loved by me and a lot of people arround me and it would be wise to go back to that concept. The smaller crankpin they used in the LC 35-plus and further on has created more pain than gain in performance, the current rods are more expensive and unreliable...
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Old 02-20-2009, 03:53 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
What is tuned? Fancy cuts, nice and shining parts and the marking on the head?
No, real tuning is mostly a better timing, nothing more and nothing less.
If the inside looks like tuning it does not say anything about the timings.

Novarossi has to sell a stock and tuned version so they can sell the higer price for a tuned version for those who want to pay more. And be real, the engine as it is today is not different compared with 20 years ago. Only new machinery and materials can make tolerances and the "fancy cuts" better and cheaper and the trend is to show new engines every year which must be better than previous. Only the fancy stuff does sell to a lot of people.

So far the Novarossi 35-plus-21 is loved by me and a lot of people arround me and it would be wise to go back to that concept. The smaller crankpin they used in the LC 35-plus and further on has created more pain than gain in performance, the current rods are more expensive and unreliable...

R7, C1 & C2, P2 & P3 rods are same price.........true that the 359 is crank pin and bottom rod is too small and sometimes an ealier failure occur and the performance gain due to less friction is not noticable.......actually the Flash 21 is a mix of 35 PLUS 21 and the Collari version..........may I suppose you are happy with that?


If Novarossi looked for money only they would not release the 353 2009 with new carb, venturi, black coating (ok means nothing but JP charges higher price for that), and a TUNED shaft for barely the same old price...........


My thoughts are like yours when it comes to the term "TUNED", anyway there are other brands or engine tuners that charges a much higher price for basically the same, just more shiny or deepers cuttings maybe.........


What I mean is that on the same example of the 353 engine above mentioned, the 2009 version, as I've said, offers a new carb, coated case, new rod (which is more reliable than the previous one which was already extremely reliable) and the so called tuned shaft for the same price as the standard 2008 version, and much cheaper than the previous tuned version.........so I wouldn't say they want to make money from that........they didn't even changed the engine specifications (power and rpm range), so there's no appeal of a new milestone in .12 engine, blablablabla.......definetely they don't want to make some more money from that.........


Also, there's no better timing, there's optimum timing for certain layout and so on, it's impossible for a manufacturer to offer torque, overall and high rpm versions, it's just crazy and definetely would force people to have dozen engines for specifical purpose..........

OH Yes, some companies like JP always build their engines with higher exhaust port, so they have power at high rpm, this doesn't mean they are better or faster than other engines just because they scream....some people loves it, some people not, so it's not fair to say that JP charges a higher price because they want to make money, no matter if all work is done on CNC and not by hand at all (same for ALMOST all tuned engines).........that's it.......
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Old 02-20-2009, 04:46 PM   #35
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Problem with JP is that he is an extra step in the road from Novarossi to the customer and that will push up the price he will compensate (or keep more to himself) by selling from his own webshop. One thing which makes the JP better for the customer is the old 5mm crankpin.

Regarding the prices, the 4.7mm "C" rods are realy more expensive than the 5mm "R" rods.

Because the rods I will stay away from the NR models but will keep them in sight and I can not wait to see the Flash in action on the track.

Regarding exhaust port timing and rpm's I can say that with most engine builders (Formula 1) the RPM is the way to gain horsepower but with 2-stroke it will mean a lower bottom end and most trachs are based on accelerating from corner to corner and so the bottom power is needed where the old 35-plus realy does fit in.

But if you are right the Flash is more as the old 35 plus it will be a good engine but I wonder if the same concept will be used on Lostallo where 1/3 of the laptime is a full throttle straight. The 359 which is build for more rpm will be more suitable for that track.....
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Old 02-20-2009, 04:56 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by suntok2 View Post
I already order from Nova and so far I dont received stock motor price. all 2009 version are tune version
Si Roelof ang huwag mong pansinin, dahil contra siya sa lahat ng bagay, ganoon talaga ang "BAKLA"
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:23 PM   #37
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i dont know what is going on here but the jp r9s is faster than any novarossi .21 stock, tuned, or modified!!!!!!!!! the name speaks for its self
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Old 02-20-2009, 06:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Problem with JP is that he is an extra step in the road from Novarossi to the customer and that will push up the price he will compensate (or keep more to himself) by selling from his own webshop. One thing which makes the JP better for the customer is the old 5mm crankpin.

Regarding the prices, the 4.7mm "C" rods are realy more expensive than the 5mm "R" rods.

Because the rods I will stay away from the NR models but will keep them in sight and I can not wait to see the Flash in action on the track.

Regarding exhaust port timing and rpm's I can say that with most engine builders (Formula 1) the RPM is the way to gain horsepower but with 2-stroke it will mean a lower bottom end and most trachs are based on accelerating from corner to corner and so the bottom power is needed where the old 35-plus realy does fit in.

But if you are right the Flash is more as the old 35 plus it will be a good engine but I wonder if the same concept will be used on Lostallo where 1/3 of the laptime is a full throttle straight. The 359 which is build for more rpm will be more suitable for that track.....
believe me, I'm Novarossi distributor in Brazil........

Conrods R7, C1, C2, P1 & P3 cost exactly the same, theres no one cent of difference...........I think your supplier is making money from the small pin rods

The Flash .21 uses the R7 rod, the shaft is basically the same as 35 Plus, 9 port with nothing really new, Collari carburettor (double adjusting and thermal insulator)..........still got to see if the exhaust port is like 35 PLUS, or slightly higher as we see on Collari and 359.........
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:05 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Team Kamikaze View Post
Si Roelof ang huwag mong pansinin, dahil contra siya sa lahat ng bagay, ganoon talaga ang "BAKLA"
Can someone translate this, I doubt it is something good about me.
Dear Sam, this is not helping you....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalvadoriRacing View Post
believe me, I'm Novarossi distributor in Brazil........

Conrods R7, C1, C2, P1 & P3 cost exactly the same, theres no one cent of difference...........I think your supplier is making money from the small pin rods

The Flash .21 uses the R7 rod, the shaft is basically the same as 35 Plus, 9 port with nothing really new, Collari carburettor (double adjusting and thermal insulator)..........still got to see if the exhaust port is like 35 PLUS, or slightly higher as we see on Collari and 359.........
The C-rods are 10 euro more expensive, I know the distributor is making the prices so he was taking a part. I mentioned "was" because for 2 months there is a new distributor here in Holland and I have to see what he will do with the prices.

Its a good thing the Flash is using the R7 again, they must have learned from the C-rods.

Regarding the exhaust. between the old 35-plus and my latest JP R9 there was about 1.5 mm difference Even between 2 JP's I have seen 0.3mm difference.
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Old 02-21-2009, 09:35 AM   #40
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:24 PM   #41
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What different in 353 turned & 353 race 09 ?
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:40 PM   #42
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I saw all new engines are available now.

353-09 $399.99
rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php?cPath=169&products_id=16558

Flash 21 $649.99
rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php?cPath=169&products_id=16554

Flash 21 tuned $725
rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php?cPath=169&products_id=16555

N12 $120
rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php?cPath=169&products_id=16559
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:53 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by rc-campus View Post
I saw all new engines are available now.

353-09 $399.99
rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php?cPath=169&products_id=16558

Flash 21 $649.99
rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php?cPath=169&products_id=16554

Flash 21 tuned $725
rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php?cPath=169&products_id=16555

N12 $120
rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php?cPath=169&products_id=16559
Wow, that's kinda steep. Here in Germany the Nova prices went down considerably.
353/08 was €350, 353/09 is €259!!

The ST/09 now sells for €238
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:05 AM   #44
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@ Stefan

you pay more for the 08 version..............????


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Old 03-05-2009, 06:52 AM   #45
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@ Stefan

you pay more for the 08 version..............????


Marc
i think he meant to say that if you're buying 353 last year it's more expensive...
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